Wow!

[AcuDefTechGuy]

im done with refurb, 2 bad receivers, one bad amp...slow burn too so its a huge PITA to deal with it. Although my onkyo 905 was new...it certainly didnt age well with the whole "lets just melt the hdmi board and see if he notices"

Okay, so now 4 of us are against refurb.

We need another poll.

 

[afterlife2]

KEW Do you think it's related to a heat issue?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

That is the problem with a refurb, it is a huge risk. You can be lucky and have a unit that was open box or had a minor problem. However you have the risk in a complex unit like a receiver of getting a unit with deep seated problems, that are not economically fixable or not fixable.

I'm highly suspicious that unit will be a total loss for you, unless you can persuade Denon to send you a new unit, which they likely won't.

Actually an Open-box cannot be refurbished, which means the unit was repaired/ serviced in the factory, probably the main Pangury factory in NJ in the case of Denon. Open box gets the full brand new warranty of 3 years, but refurb gets 1 year.

I agree with the "deep seated problems".

 

[KEW]

ADTG,
As I recall you had something like a 50% failure rate with your refurbs. Way more than what we see out of A4L.

In my case, I am 12 good out of 12 refurbs.
As I see that, I essentially got 3 units for free (I figure about 25% discount for refurb compared to competitive pricing for new unit).

Our personal experiences resonate strongest, so you can see why I recommend refurbs from A4L; and I understand why you don't endorse refurbs.

I think a poll is an excellent idea, but it would be worthwhile to see it broken down by distributor (A4L, Damark, OneCall, etc).

What would be really useful is to know the failure rate of refurbs via different distributors and to know the failure rate of new units.
If we knew the failure rate of new gear was 1% and for refurbs was 5%, then we would have a useful way to evaluate the risk.

This is the first thread I have seen involving an A4L refurb! Maybe there are many others to come out of the woodwork, but if this is it for all of the units which Audioholics have bought from A4L, it hardly makes a strong case against them.

I remember reading about your woes with your refurbs and had to wonder if Damark/OneCall was taking defective returns and shipping them as "new" refurbs.

 

[KEW]

KEW Do you think it's related to a heat issue?

? I think you are addressing the wrong person ?
This was not my unit and I have no idea if it had adequate ventilation, etc.

 

[macddmac]

KEW Do you think it's related to a heat issue?

I seriously doubt it. Had the unit for 5 months with fan cooling and the only problem initially was a scratchy sbl channel which I didn't notice until I hooked it up ( was only using 5 channels up to that point). It likely came defective and went unnoticed until I tried to use it. The fatal problem happened after return from Panurgy.
I think another issue with refurbs is that A: people don't properly articulate the reason for return. and B: they (Panurgy) do too cursory of a check- out prior to re-marketing.
Cheers, Mac

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I seriously doubt it. Had the unit for 5 months with fan cooling and the only problem initially was a scratchy sbl channel which I didn't notice until I hooked it up ( was only using 5 channels up to that point). It likely came defective and went unnoticed until I tried to use it. The fatal problem happened after return from Panurgy.
I think another issue with refurbs is that A: people don't properly articulate the reason for return. and B: they (Panurgy) do too cursory of a check- out prior to re-marketing.
Cheers, Mac

You know who Pangury and the refurb department blame? UPS & FedEx.

One of my Denons also caught smoke AFTER coming back from Pangury.

 

[afterlife2]

? I think you are addressing the wrong person ?
This was not my unit and I have no idea if it had adequate ventilation, etc.

I reacted too fast. I hope you get the Issue over with and enjoy your Denon Mac. I'd still buy refurb myself, but would get an extended warranty now. It would just get me to test everything in one day Is the lessons learned here.

 

[Jeff R.]

I am personally 5 for 5 on factory refurbs. 4 from A4less. So my data tell me I am in good shape for now. I may get burned one day. Based on what everyone here states, I will learn the first time!!

 

[macddmac]

I reacted too fast. I hope you get the Issue over with and enjoy your Denon Mac. I'd still buy refurb myself, but would get an extended warranty now. It would just get me to test everything in one day Is the lessons learned here.

i got an additional 3 years when i bought the unit still in the denon warranty period.
Cheers, Mac

 

[macddmac]

You know who Pangury and the refurb department blame? UPS & FedEx.

One of my Denons also caught smoke AFTER coming back from Pangury.

After back and forth phone calls with denon and panurgy , both of them mentioning damage during shipping, panurgy says they'll send a shipping label.
Like pulling teeth:0
Cheers, Mac

 

[KEW]

Extended warranty or not, if the associated service is crap, you'd almost as well not have a warranty.
Is this the main US service center for Denon products?

Hopefully, they will do better this time.

 

[macddmac]

Update

Ok, I'm back from vacation and just sent the 3313 back to Panurgy.
the return label was in my junk mail folder which I didn't check prior to calling and asking wtf
Hoping for better luck this time. In the meantime, the old 2105 is on the job.
Cheers, Mac

 

[Pyrrho]

I have only purchased one refurbished item, a Yamaha DVD player, that I am still using after about 7 years. I have never had to get it repaired. I would be willing to buy another Yamaha product refurbished, but most of the time, what I want is something that I do not find refurbished. And often one can get a great deal new, and that is the better way to go.

If someone is going to do a poll about this, the brands should also be considered, not just where the refurbished item is purchased. Unfortunately, though, I doubt a poll here would ever have enough responses to give anything statistically significant.

I like Yamaha. There don't seem to be too many threads about their products not working, either new or refurbished.

 

[macddmac]

I have only purchased one refurbished item, a Yamaha DVD player, that I am still using after about 7 years. I have never had to get it repaired. I would be willing to buy another Yamaha product refurbished, but most of the time, what I want is something that I do not find refurbished. And often one can get a great deal new, and that is the better way to go.

If someone is going to do a poll about this, the brands should also be considered, not just where the refurbished item is purchased. Unfortunately, though, I doubt a poll here would ever have enough responses to give anything statistically significant.

I like Yamaha. There don't seem to be too many threads about their products not working, either new or refurbished.

Agreed, never had a problem with Yamaha and will likely return to the fold on my next receiver purchase.
Cheers, Mac

 

[macddmac]

It's baaack

.. And working as advertised for now
Cheers, Mac

 

[GlocksRock]

Glad to hear everything is working properly.