Would you upgrade or stop?

[PENG]

That's an interesting thought. Why the AVR for the fronts? I feel like it's adequate power at normal listening levels but is it enough if I want to push the volume? Why would the AVR produce better quality than the Crown?

That's because you said you had a good system now, so I assume you are reasonably happy about what you have. As such, I would focus on getting the best out of what you have already, by using the RX-A880 to power the left and right for critical music listening.

The AVR has better specs on paper than the XLS 1002. It is less powerful, but even if the RP-260F dips to 4 or 3 ohms at a couple points in the 30-100 Hz range, the RX-A880 should have no trouble pushing over 100 W into such loads. Yamaha rated its dynamic power 240 W into 2 ohms, two channel driven. That's obviously just for short duration, and it would do a lot less, say 1/2 to 1/4 of that for longer duration but that's more than enough for the RP-260F especially if you set the crossovers for the L/R to 80 Hz. So choosing the AVR over the Crown is a matter of quality over quantity.

The reason I suggested to use the more powerful XLS 1002 to power the center channel is simple. For action movies, the center channel will most likely draw more power from the amp than the L/R, not more than L+R, but more than L, or R on average.

The APA150 has the lowest audio specs of the 3, and that's why I would use them to drive the surround speakers.

It may not make any audible difference, but it costs you nothing to try.

 

[ryanosaur]

Pretty sure most people here will suggest upgrades, since you are asking big time Audioholics like @ryanosaur and @KEW LOL

If you have the money budgeted for upgrades and are able to play your system loud, then yes the larger subs are worth every penny.

Whatup, Snake!!! Been a minute.
C'mon... I'm playing nice and not suggesting he blow 2-5 stacks!

My first assertion stands... the subs! You still in love with your VTF2s? What do you think... 2 of those Hsu's or two PB1000s?

 

[PENG]

I should add that if we are really looking for weak links in your set up, I can come up with two that are based on specs and test data:

1. The RX-A860's pre out is not very good at higher output. The RX-A880 likely have the same preamp section.
2. The XLS1002's SN spec is on the low side, if you set the sensitivity to 0.775 V.

You need 1.4 V to drive the XLS1002 to its rated output, but at that level, if the RX-A880 behaves similarly to the 860, the signal may not be very clean. If you set sensitivity to 0.775, then the RX-A880 would have easier time, but then the XLS1002's SN ratio will drop by 6 dB.

Again, all these are theoretical, and may or may not have audible effects. I mention it because you asked..

 

[snakeeyes]

Whatup, Snake!!! Been a minute.
C'mon... I'm playing nice and not suggesting he blow 2-5 stacks!

My first assertion stands... the subs! You still in love with your VTF2s? What do you think... 2 of those Hsu's or two PB1000s?

LOL .

Ya I’m very happy with my HSU VTF2 subs. I think SVS PB2000 series is another great option but they are more expensive. I can’t complain about my Rythmik LVX12 either. That’s also a nice sub but the HSU is a better value.

 

[Pogre]

Pretty sure most people here will suggest upgrades, since you are asking big time Audioholics like @ryanosaur and @KEW LOL

If you have the money budgeted for upgrades and are able to play your system loud, then yes the larger subs are worth every penny.

Oh I so agree with this. I skimmed a li'l and missed what you had for subs...

I haven't heard them yet, but haven't heard a lot negative about those RP 260's. By most accounts they're pretty competent speakers. SVS make very good subs, but the VTF 2's recommended would be a worthy upgrade. You definitely get more bang for your buck with HSU, and they also make very good subs. I'm all for upgrading those subs!

When I upgraded from a pair of SB 1000's (sealed version of your subs) to a pair VTF-3 MK 5's I was blown away. After my speaker upgrade, those subs were the biggest game changer in my system. I couldn't believe how much they improved the sq of my entire system. I was honest to goodness stunned at how much better everything sounded. The VTF-2's are their little brother, but I can fully vouch for HSU. If you can swing the VTF-3's, even better.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

One other weak link might be the room itself. Square rooms eat bass. Especially if your seated in the middle. If you’re so inclined, experiment with placement(as @Pogre said) of subs and mains both. And of course, better subs could expand the dynamic range as well, but if you can get them located well, and integrated with the mains, you could get a few more years with them until you feel the itch again.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Oh I so agree with this. I skimmed a li'l and missed what you had for subs...

I haven't heard them yet, but haven't heard a lot negative about those RP 150's. By most accounts they're pretty competent speakers. SVS make very good subs, but the VTF 2's recommended would be a worthy upgrade. You definitely get more bang for your buck with HSU, and they also make very good subs. I'm all for upgrading those subs!

When I upgraded from a pair of SB 1000's (sealed version of your subs) to a pair VTF-3 MK 5's I was blown away. After my speaker upgrade, those subs were the biggest game changer in my system. I couldn't believe how much they improved the sq of my entire system. I was honest to goodness stunned at how much better everything sounded. The VTF-2's are their little brother, but I can fully vouch for HSU. If you can swing the VTF-3's, even better.

I feel like a broken record recommending subs all the time, but IMO, and pretty sure yours, enough can’t be said about great bass. And of course, I don’t mean that trunk rattling 30hz crap driving up and down roads lol.
Bass is an investment, and extends well after buying the best subs for you. Placement, eq, xo, etc all add up.

 

[lovinthehd]

I dunno???

Basically you halve the impedance capabilities by bridging.

 

[lovinthehd]

That's because you said you had a good system now, so I assume you are reasonably happy about what you have. As such, I would focus on getting the best out of what you have already, by using the RX-A880 to power the left and right for critical music listening.

The AVR has better specs on paper than the XLS 1002. It is less powerful, but even if the RP-260F dips to 4 or 3 ohms at a couple points in the 30-100 Hz range, the RX-A880 should have no trouble pushing over 100 W into such loads. Yamaha rated its dynamic power 240 W into 2 ohms, two channel driven. That's obviously just for short duration, and it would do a lot less, say 1/2 to 1/4 of that for longer duration but that's more than enough for the RP-260F especially if you set the crossovers for the L/R to 80 Hz. So choosing the AVR over the Crown is a matter of quality over quantity.

The reason I suggested to use the more powerful XLS 1002 to power the center channel is simple. For action movies, the center channel will most likely draw more power from the amp than the L/R, not more than L+R, but more than L, or R on average.

The APA150 has the lowest audio specs of the 3, and that's why I would use them to drive the surround speakers.

It may not make any audible difference, but it costs you nothing to try.

What particular better specs does the Yamaha avr actually have over the Crown, tho?

 

[PENG]

What particular better specs does the Yamaha avr actually have over the Crown, tho?

THD for sure, most likely SN too, based on S&V measurements on the older RXA models.

Apparently the XLS's input signal may be put through A to D first but I am not really sure about that one.

 

[lovinthehd]

THD for sure, most likely SN too, based on S&V measurements on the older RXA models.

Apparently the XLS's input signal may be put through A to D first but I am not really sure about that one.

THD was measured here on the model up, but probably close in any case, certainly far better than what Crown publishes. Audible in any case even if gone thru an AD/DA cycle?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Btw, nice explorer in the avatar.

 

[CB22]

Fronts: Klipsch RP-260F's

I used to own a pair of 280's I felt like the treble was harsh for 2-channel but I had no problems with it for movies and games. I could tell a night and day difference between the 280's and the BMRs, specially in the treble and midrange. All and all looks like a nice setup.

 

[PENG]

THD was measured here on the model up, but probably close in any case, certainly far better than what Crown publishes. Audible in any case even if gone thru an AD/DA cycle?

You and I both know that sort of things won't be audible but highly visible to audiophiles. I bet someone like @RichB (with due respect) will not use such an amp in his "Hifi stereo" set up because it would logically (not debatable really, even for him I would think..) render his up stream device such as the Oppo 105, HA-1's and his other higher end media players/preamps with superior audio specs meaningless.

 

[PENG]

I used to own a pair of 280's I felt like the treble was harsh for 2-channel but I had no problems with it for movies and games. I could tell a night and day difference between the 280's and the BMRs, specially in the treble and midrange. All and all looks like a nice setup.

Seems to me the majority of people on this forum own Klipsch speakers these days, may be the Energy/Mirage/Jamo influence has finally sunk in.

 

[JDM3030]

I should add that if we are really looking for weak links in your set up, I can come up with two that are based on specs and test data:

1. The RX-A860's pre out is not very good at higher output. The RX-A880 likely have the same preamp section.
2. The XLS1002's SN spec is on the low side, if you set the sensitivity to 0.775 V.

You need 1.4 V to drive the XLS1002 to its rated output, but at that level, if the RX-A880 behaves similarly to the 860, the signal may not be very clean. If you set sensitivity to 0.775, then the RX-A880 would have easier time, but then the XLS1002's SN ratio will drop by 6 dB.

Again, all these are theoretical, and may or may not have audible effects. I mention it because you asked..

I believe Crown recommends using the 0.775V output for home use. I hear your argument though.

I know I don't understand it on your level but here is my reply/explanation...
I have been running my Crown for the two front using the 0.775V setting per Crown's recommendation. I knew when I got the amp that the SN Ratio was something to be mindful of, particularly with efficient speakers, home use and the amp. So I took a chance and got the Crown with a critical ear to any hiss when the volume was up and there was nothing playing. If I pressed my ear right up against the horn, I could hear a super feint hiss. However, it was so low in volume I didn't care and was happy because practically speaking I couldn't ever hear outside of that extreme circumstance.

In terms of the Crown performance for my fronts... I have been very pleased actually. I felt like they gave the speakers a shot of adrenaline. They seemed to have more authority and punch. Now I could have totally been imagining that because that's what i wanted to believe...

 

[JDM3030]

One other weak link might be the room itself. Square rooms eat bass. Especially if your seated in the middle. If you’re so inclined, experiment with placement(as @Pogre said) of subs and mains both. And of course, better subs could expand the dynamic range as well, but if you can get them located well, and integrated with the mains, you could get a few more years with them until you feel the itch again.

I hear you regarding the square room. I treat the front cornerns with traps but I think there is only so much I can do. The room isn't perfectly square thankfully but it is still a very real issue because it's close enough.

I have my two subs positioned at the 25% and 75% marks of my front wall, just inside my two front towers. I might be able to get better bass with different positioning, but it is impractical to move them somewhere else for cosmetic and room flow reasons. Plus my GF would murder me.

 

[JDM3030]

Btw, nice explorer in the avatar.

Thanks. It is mine actually
Have a few others. Love electric guitars!

 

[JDM3030]

I used to own a pair of 280's I felt like the treble was harsh for 2-channel but I had no problems with it for movies and games. I could tell a night and day difference between the 280's and the BMRs, specially in the treble and midrange. All and all looks like a nice setup.

I think I might get to where you are someday but not yet... I need to live with these longer until I have the motivation really spend some cash. I am a couple years away at least...

 

[JDM3030]

So if I were to address the feedback in general...
Thank you so much for the input. Even the stuff I don't adopt, it still gives me things to think about.
Listening to what I hear here (above) and what I hear in my room... I think the best improvement I could make is better subs. But if I did that, I would need to do it right and be done with it. Maybe in 2020 lol.