Would you upgrade or stop?

JDM3030

JDM3030

Audioholic Intern
OK so I have spend the last couple years trying to build a versatile audio system that can perform well for movies, video games and 2 channel music. I think I have a "good" system but it's nothing over the top. I still find myself looking for more sometimes though. Am I nuts or should I stop? Have I reached a point of diminishing return?

My room is approx. 19'x19' with 7.5' ceiling height. The room is closed in minus a doorway size opening in the middle of the rear wall. The rear wall is brick while all other walls and ceiling is smooth drywall. The floor is wall-to-wall carpet.

My system is a 7.2 and includes the following:
Yamaha RX-A880 AVR (100w 2 channels driven)
Fronts: Klipsch RP-260F's
Side Surround: Klipsch RP-150M's
Rear Surround: Klipsch RP-150M's
Center: Klipsch RP-250C
Duel Subs: SVS PB-1000's

My fronts are powered by a Crown XLS 1002 power amp in stereo mode (215W per channel)
My center is powered by a Dayton Audio APA150 power amp in bridge mode (150W)
All surrounds are powered by the AVR.

I also have floor to ceiling GIK bass traps and a few GIK panels for side wall first reflections.


Does anyone see a point of weakness? I am operating under the assumption that the chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Thanks!
 
2

2channel lover

Audioholic Field Marshall
OK so I have spend the last couple years trying to build a versatile audio system that can perform well for movies, video games and 2 channel music. I think I have a "good" system but it's nothing over the top. I still find myself looking for more sometimes though. Am I nuts or should I stop? Have I reached a point of diminishing return?

My room is approx. 19'x19' with 7.5' ceiling height. The room is closed in minus a doorway size opening in the middle of the rear wall. The rear wall is brick while all other walls and ceiling is smooth drywall. The floor is wall-to-wall carpet.

My system is a 7.2 and includes the following:
Yamaha RX-A880 AVR (100w 2 channels driven)
Fronts: Klipsch RP-260F's
Side Surround: Klipsch RP-150M's
Rear Surround: Klipsch RP-150M's
Center: Klipsch RP-250C
Duel Subs: SVS PB-1000's

My fronts are powered by a Crown XLS 1002 power amp in stereo mode (215W per channel)
My center is powered by a Dayton Audio APA150 power amp in bridge mode (150W)
All surrounds are powered by the AVR.

I also have floor to ceiling GIK bass traps and a few GIK panels for side wall first reflections.


Does anyone see a point of weakness? I am operating under the assumption that the chain is only as strong as its weakest link.

Thanks!
From afar, seems like you have a nice system to me. My question is where do YOU feel like your system is coming up short?

If there is no top of mind answer to that, probably stop.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
End of the day it comes down to you and your ears.
If you listen critically to music, then I would say your speakers are the weakest link. If you don’t analyze symphonic works or produce digital music in your listening room... if you are stoked when you watch movies and play video games... hold.
I suppose, if anything, you might find some greater satisfaction in bigger subs. :) but I admit: I’m a bit of a Bassaholic. :)
Cheers!
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
With those speakers, you should try using the RX-A880 to drive the left and right channels, use the Crown for the center channel, you may try bridging it for more output, but if you do, set the sensitivity to 1.4 V to minimize noise.

The APA100 should be powerful enough for your surrounds assuming you sit closer to them than to the fronts.
 
JDM3030

JDM3030

Audioholic Intern
To address the comments above... I deliberately didn't include what I thought "could" be improved because I didn't want to steer any responses but since you asked..

If I had to upgrade... Possible areas for improvement would be...

1) I would upgrade my subs but I think it would cost s good penny for the improvement to be noticeable. The PB-1000 are "adequate" IMO. Bigger more powerful ported subs could shake the room more or bigger more power sealed subs could tighten up the bottom end.

2) I think my amps are "OK". Both were value plays but I have no complaints. Again, how much to actually improve things to a noticeable level?

3) I could swap out the Klipsch speakers but that would be a pretty major swap. I think the speakers have the biggest impact, but at what cost?

If I want to address the home theater stuff, I think my center channel and subs are the weak link. However, I don't know if a bigger better center speaker would improve anything. The reason is my speaker sits in an entertainment stand. The acoustics of that situation will impact any speaker no matter what.

If I want to address the music listening (which is where I am the most critical listener), I think it's amp and subs.

But I dunno... My thoughts are in a vacuum. That's why I throw it out there so someone else can share what they see as the weak link.
 
JDM3030

JDM3030

Audioholic Intern
With those speakers, you should try using the RX-A880 to drive the left and right channels, use the Crown for the center channel, you may try bridging it for more output, but if you do, set the sensitivity to 1.4 V to minimize noise.

The APA100 should be powerful enough for your surrounds assuming you sit closer to them than to the fronts.
That's an interesting thought. Why the AVR for the fronts? I feel like it's adequate power at normal listening levels but is it enough if I want to push the volume? Why would the AVR produce better quality than the Crown?
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Here is a link to a review of the A860 which is likely to be mostly the same actual hardware as your A880.
Unfortunately, this Yamaha AVR has some issues.
While the RX-A860 is fine driving small bass-managed 8 ohm speakers, this is the first time I'd actually caution people against using 4 ohm speakers or even running 8 ohm tower speakers on the “large” setting. I’ve never said this about a Yamaha before. It's sad that a $400 predecessor from the very same company offered a more robust amp and power section than this product, which has AVENTAGE moniker stamped on it. To pour further salt on the power wound, the preamp out section of this receiver is a bit weak, making it critical to match with a high gain amplifier to ensure the preamp itself doesn't clip while driving external amplification. I'd like to see Yamaha beef up the amp section so the current limiting could be a little less restrictive and for God's sake, please give us a clean 2Vrms output from the pre-outs of ALL your AV receivers!
https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/yamaha-rx-a860/conclusion

Your Klipsch speakers are relatively easy to drive and you are using a sub, so that should make them even easier to drive! I think the Yamaha can drive Klipsch fine.
I am not sure if this is where PENG is coming from, but the part above that I highlighted with bold text mentions that the preamp outputs are particularly weak which may cause you to have clipping distortion (from the Yamaha pre-amp section) when using an external amp.
I'll let PENG take it from here because he is our electronics/AVR Guru!
 
S

shadyJ

Speaker of the House
Staff member
Your system looks pretty good, if you aren't running into its dynamic range limitations. You can try a wide dispersion speaker to see if you are interested in a different sound. The Klipsch are good, but they have a more tightly controlled directivity than many other speakers. Some people prefer the sound of speakers that throw sound out at a wider angle because they can sound more spacious or enveloping.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
1) I would upgrade my subs but I think it would cost s good penny for the improvement to be noticeable.
Depending on your definition of a pretty penny. 2 hsu VTF2 or VTF3 subs would be a significant improvement over 2 PB 1000. For 2 VTF2's, shipped, is ~$1165.00
3) I could swap out the Klipsch speakers but that would be a pretty major swap. I think the speakers have the biggest impact, but at what cost?
This is what I brought up. My personal taste would take me most anywhere from Klipsch. However, it is your system, and not knowing your habits and interests, I am not into telling you these are bad... it depends on what you want! :) Most seem to agree that for an HT-centric system, Klipsch is pretty good. JBL as well if you act fast and get in on a sale for Studio 590s! :)
My preference as an audio first kinda guy is a good 3-way design. If you want to have that conversation about speakers... We all have 2¢ to throw in! :p And we will... some of us more than once! :D

Cheers!
 
JDM3030

JDM3030

Audioholic Intern
Here is a link to a review of the A860 which is likely to be mostly the same actual hardware as your A880.
Unfortunately, this Yamaha AVR has some issues.


Your Klipsch speakers are relatively easy to drive and you are using a sub, so that should make them even easier to drive! I think the Yamaha can drive Klipsch fine.
I am not sure if this is where PENG is coming from, but the part above that I highlighted with bold text mentions that the preamp outputs are particularly weak which may cause you to have clipping distortion (from the Yamaha pre-amp section) when using an external amp.
I'll let PENG take it from here because he is our electronics/AVR Guru!
I may need a little education here. I have heard that Yamaha output can be lower than other brands causing challenges with needing to raise the gain on amps, etc. Is this what you are referring to? Would preamp clipping only be the result of poor pairing with the power amp? Can you help me better understand why preamp clipping could result?
 
JDM3030

JDM3030

Audioholic Intern
In terms of upgrading from the Klipsch speakers... Are the recommendations true upgrades or preference differences? I ask sincerely. Of course there are better speakers, but is it a matter of a side swap or an up swap?
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I'd mostly go with speakers for any kind of upgrade, as that's where the action is with upgrading. Seems like a decent set of electronics you have already....altho I did wonder why the bridged amp for the center a bit tho....might mix it up a bit like Peng says altho it may make no difference in use.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Overlord
Astute question. ;)
Again... it really depends on your goals. I'm not going to try to sell you something you don't want! :D

If you listen to music with a critical ear, you will find much better speakers if you want. If you don't, as I said before, you might not need to worry about this.

Personally, I would not press an upgrade if there is no reason for it. if you are concerned about SQ and you feel there is something missing, then I suggest doing some basic research on what you might want. This would involve reading subjective reviews, and trying to find speakers to listen to. The latter is the most important... and properly coupled with the former, it will help you form a knowledge base of what descriptors are used for certain gear, why, and what that means to your ears.
Taken a step further, most reviewers will compare the gear that they are reviewing to other product in the same category; sometimes a step up or below, too. Using those comparisons in conjunction with auditioning gear, grows your knowledge base considerably.
If you have only heard KEF (for example), you might never question what else might be out there... until one day you hear something like Monitor Audio, or RBH... Suddenly you find yourself noticing, perhaps, that the midrange of your speakers is somewhat strident whereas this new speaker sounds totally different. ;) KEF makes some very nice speakers by most accounts. I think there are better still for the same price point. :)

Hope that makes sense.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Slumlord
I'd mostly go with speakers for any kind of upgrade, as that's where the action is with upgrading. Seems like a decent set of electronics you have already....altho I did wonder why the bridged amp for the center a bit tho....might mix it up a bit like Peng says altho it may make no difference in use.
For sure. Speakers are the first place to start if you have a decent set of electronics.

I'll tell ya another thing that helps more than most folks give credit for is speaker positioning. Pulling them a little further from the wall, maybe more or less space in between... little easy adjustments you can try for potentially pretty good gains. The same applies to subwoofers, if not moreso.
 
JDM3030

JDM3030

Audioholic Intern
I'd mostly go with speakers for any kind of upgrade, as that's where the action is with upgrading. Seems like a decent set of electronics you have already....altho I did wonder why the bridged amp for the center a bit tho....might mix it up a bit like Peng says altho it may make no difference in use.
I know the bridged Dayton for the center is a so so amp. My logic when I got it was just to get a little more power for the center channel because I felt like it distorted a little when I pushed the volume. I was thinking it might have been clipping. However, now I think the distortion was more so because the speaker is situated in an entertainment stand and the auto EQ was boosting the low frequencies. I ended up cutting out some of the boost and setting the crossover a little higher, which I think helped. I bridged it because I wanted the 150 watts.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I know the bridged Dayton for the center is a so so amp. My logic when I got it was just to get a little more power for the center channel because I felt like it distorted a little when I pushed the volume. I was thinking it might have been clipping. However, now I think the distortion was more so because the speaker is situated in an entertainment stand and the auto EQ was boosting the low frequencies. I ended up cutting out some of the boost and setting the crossover a little higher, which I think helped. I bridged it because I wanted the 150 watts.
Did you give up something on the ability to handle lower impedance with the bridging, tho?
 
JDM3030

JDM3030

Audioholic Intern
Did you give up something on the ability to handle lower impedance with the bridging, tho?
I probably don’t know enough about bridging to know. I’m a bit of a novice on those details.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Pretty sure most people here will suggest upgrades, since you are asking big time Audioholics like @ryanosaur and @KEW LOL :)

If you have the money budgeted for upgrades and are able to play your system loud, then yes the larger subs are worth every penny. :)
 
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