Would wiring 4 super tweeters per speaker box increase life of tweeters?

D

domic

Audioholic Intern
I bought 8 super bullet 3" tweeters at 8 ohms each and have a 500 watt receiver. I want to wire 4 tweeters to each 3 way crossover per speaker box.(2- 3 way crossovers, 2 speaker boxes[per each box- 1 15" woofer,1 mid range,plus 4 tweeters]). Through the years i always wired just 1 tweeter to a 3 way crossover per speaker box and eventually(especially when i play rock, metal or other music at full blast) the tweeters start to sound slightly lower a few years later til they completely blow in about 3 to 5 years. I'm wondering, if i were to wire 4 tweeters together to the tweeter terminal of each crossover would the 8 tweeters last like 10 or more years without blowing? It seems they should since each tweeter will only be using 25% of full power compared to if there was 1 tweeter per crossover/speaker box.
 

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everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Sounds like a mess. Even without the rest off the details, a mess. If your going to do diy, read up, ask questions. Just the way the post reads is indicative of not ready.
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
I would just buy some real speakers. More tweeters is not going to fix what you are doing.
 
D

domic

Audioholic Intern
Just wondering in general terms, would 4 (8 ohms each) tweeters wired to a crossover have a far longer life compared to if just 1 (of the same) tweeter was wired? It sure seems the 4 tweeters would last like 4 times longer compared to just 1 tweeter, since the 4 tweeters will be using only 25% of power, whereas the 1 would be using 100%, therefore a shorter life. Can someone explain in general terms in detail if 4 tweeters if set up correctly would have a longer life than 1 tweeter? Because i cant find the answer when searching google or even youtube. Thanks.
 
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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
I have to agree with everttT and j_garcia. Whatever is causing your tweeters to fail, adding 4 super tweeters per speaker does not address the problem. Other than over-driving your tweeters, I am not at all sure what the problem is.

There are good reasons why you wouldn't want to use 4 tweeters per speaker instead of one of the same type. Unless they are vertically arrayed, the sound from four tweeters will likely interfere with each other.

Instead consider using one tweeter of a more robust type, or don't overdrive them.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
Just wondering in general terms, would 4 (8 ohms each) tweeters wired to a crossover have a far longer life compared to if just 1 (of the same) tweeter was wired? It sure seems the 4 tweeters would last like 4 times longer compared to just 1 tweeter, since the 4 tweeters will be using only 25% of power, whereas the 1 would be using 100%, therefore a shorter life.
Same post, no mention of the rest of the speaker. Your looking for a problem, which I'm sure there are many issues. If your looking for advice,list all components, and again I'm sure the answers will be the same
 
D

domic

Audioholic Intern
Other than over-driving your tweeters, Unless they are vertically arrayed, the sound from four tweeters will likely interfere with each other.
How would wiring 4 same 8 ohm tweeters to 1 crossover over drive them? Isnt the power being divided 4 ways equally, meaning each tweeter is only at 25% loudness? how is that over powerng each tweeter? and dont understand how they could interfere with each other??? Sorry if i sound like an amateur.
 
D

domic

Audioholic Intern
Same post, no mention of the rest of the speaker. If your looking for advice,list all components
1- 500 watt receiver wired to 2 speaker boxes. Each box consists of, 1- 3 way crossover, 1- 15" bass woofer, 1- 8" mid range, 4- 3" super bullet tweeters 300 watts each, 8 ohms each.
HERES a picture of the crossover-
 

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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I bought 8 super bullet 3" tweeters at 8 ohms each and have a 500 watt receiver. I want to wire 4 tweeters to each 3 way crossover per speaker box.(2- 3 way crossovers, 2 speaker boxes[per each box- 1 15" woofer,1 mid range,plus 4 tweeters]). Through the years i always wired just 1 tweeter to a 3 way crossover per speaker box and eventually(especially when i play metal or other music at full blast) the tweeters start to sound slightly lower a few years later til they completely blow in about 5 years. I'm wondering, if i were to wire 4 tweeters together to the tweeter terminal of each crossover would the 8 tweeters last like 10 or more years without blowing? It seems they should since each tweeter will only be using 25% of full power compared to if there was 1 tweeter per crossover/speaker box.
Sorry, but the other posters are correct. You have no clue about speaker issues.

First of all bullet super tweeters are designed for very high frequencies only, usually 10 KHz or above.

The crossover you show is a generic first order three way crossover. I have no idea what the crossover points are, but there will be a huge amount of over lap. The roll off to each driver is only 6 db per octave. So this means the tweeter are getting a boat load of power way down. No matter how many tweeters you use with that mess, they will burn out.

Next multiple tweeter will interfere with each other. It is called comb filtering.

Finally you can not use off the shelf crossover like you show. Every crossover has to be designed custom. The electrical orders of each filter must complement the acoustic roll off of the drivers. The crossover points must be specifically chosen to the driver roll off and in the case of mids and tweeters, their power response and free air resonances. The crossover must also balance the drivers, to allow for the different sensitivities of the drivers selected.

Driver selection is a key factor. It takes some experience to select a combination of drivers that can work together in harmony.

You need to educate at length is you want to build speakers worth listening to.
 
rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
Either that, or build a kit designed by someone who has devoted the time and effort to be educated at length. DIY Sound Group has several kits you might find appealing. The Elusive 1099, for example, offers a 99dB sensitivity while still exhibiting the sort of well-tuned sophistication you've been missing. Close attention has been paid not only to blend all drivers into a flat response, but also to ensure the cone break up of the drivers occurs well beyond the crossover range, to compensate for baffle step, to maximize linear response off-axis, to match phase, and generally to provide the sort of refinement that your off the shelf crossover will never hope to match. And they'll handle some power without blowing up. I doubt you'll ever have to replace those tweeters.
 
D

domic

Audioholic Intern
NOTE- The tweeters that burned in past were older and cheaper than new tweeters i bought.

OK, here are the specs for the crossover and super tweeters-

Universal 3-Way Crossover-
Crossover frequencies are based on 8 ohm load. an 8 ohm speaker may vary from 7 to 15 ohms or more. Four selectable crossover frequencies: 800, 1600, 5,000, and 7000 Hz. Each speaker element has two options.(with standard 6 dB/octave
attenuation). Here are the 2 possible combinations for Tweeter(letters are labels of terminals.):
5000 hz (E) 7000 hz (F). Crossover handles up to 100 watts of audio power (maximum music power).

Super Bullet Tweeter, 300 watts, 8 ohms-

Power Rating Watts 800W Music Program 1600W Resonance 25Hz Usable Frequency Range 40Hz-800Hz Sensitivity 97 Magnet Weight 109 ounce,Voice Coil Diam. 4-Inch, Resonant Freq. (FS) 25Hz DC Resistance.

QU---Will 4 tweeters per crossover have a longer life than just 1 using 500 watt receiver based on above specs? OR should i buy a new crossover? Thanks for replies.
 

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rojo

rojo

Audioholic Samurai
QU---Will 4 tweeters per crossover have a longer life than just 1 using 500 watt receiver based on above specs? OR should i buy a new crossover? Thanks for replies.
Your question has already been answered, just not the way you wanted. A crossover slope of 6dB per octave does little to protect your tweeter(s) from damage. Multiple tweeters are not the solution because 1) you will introduce comb filtering, and 2) they'll still have midbass bleeding in because your crossover slope will still be too shallow. You'll burn them up sooner or later. Buying a new crossover is not the answer either, because an off-the-rack crossover will not be a proper match for your drivers and cabinet. Designing a crossover for the drivers you have requires lots of knowledge, experience, time, patience, trial, error, measurements, and dedication in general. You could patch in 18dB per octave crossovers, but will they be at the correct frequency? Would it combine with the natural rolloff of your existing drivers to net you 24dB per octave? Will your tweeters comfortably play low enough that you can shove the breakup frequencies of your 8-inch mid driver down -20dB? Have you measured the raw response of your mid driver to know where that breakup area lies in its range? Will the drivers be properly phase matched? Will the highest frequencies of the tweeter be properly attenuated for baffle step compensation?

It doesn't matter how often you ask that same question or the manner in which you rephrase it. The answer is going to be that this is a failed project, and we cannot help you salvage it. I'm sorry that's not the answer you wanted, but it is, regretfully, the correct one. For a very brief intro into the knowledge you seek, see this post.

Now, if you're interested in a more worthwhile project where you'll build something you can truly be proud of without having to become an expert on speaker design, we'd be delighted to help you there. It'll require starting from scratch, though, and choosing specific components that have been modeled into a tried-and-tested design.
 
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mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Audioholic Slumlord
It looks to me that you are hell bent on trying 4 tweeter in that box.
By all means do it. Report back on the outcome.
 
D

domic

Audioholic Intern
It looks to me that you are hell bent on trying 4 tweeter in that box.
By all means do it. Report back on the outcome.
I think i may give it a try with my current 3 way crossover.(i also use a great EQ to get the finest highs at farthest right of EQ). Or would a crossover with 18 dB, 24 or 99dB be better for these tweeters than my current crossover at 6dB? I still have the same original question but will rephrase it differently- Lets say i built a speaker set 100% correct with the correct 3 way crossover and all correct individual speakers,etc, would 4 tweeters last far longer compared to if only 1 of the same tweeter was wired to crossover?(please answer without taking in consideration comb filtering).
 
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TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
I think i may give it a try with my current 3 way crossover.(i also use a great EQ to get greater highs at farthest right of EQ). Or would a crossover with 18 dB, 24 or 99dB be better for these tweeters than my current crossover at 6dB? I still have the same original question but will rephraise it differently- Lets say i built a speaker set 100% correct with the correct 3 way crossover and all correct individual speakers,etc, would 4 tweeters last far longer compared to if only 1 of the same tweeter was wired to crossover?(please answer without taking in consideration comb filtering).
If you design the speaker correctly the tweeters will not burn out. If you buy a crossover it will always be incorrect.

Your speaker is just junk, and unless you learn to design a proper crossover for it then it will always be a mess.

Your Eq is going to double the power to the tweeters for every 3 db increase of your Eq faders in the HF region.

Good speakers do NOT need Eq.

Obviously if you connect four tweeters together each will take a quarter of the power of one. However the ration of power to loudness is logarithmic and not linear, so you won't gain what you think. With what you have right now suspect the overload is massive.
 
D

domic

Audioholic Intern
Thanks for your replies.Do bass woofers always have a longer life than tweeters? I've been using the 2 (high end) bass woofers(actually they are a part bass,part sub 15" woofer, $399 ea,) wired to this 3 way crossover for over 15 years and they never blew, and still play like new. The cheaper tweeters and mid ranges blew through the years. HERES MORE OF A MESS- The past 10 years i've been using (not a 6" or 8" midrange-i used that at beginning) but a 10" bass woofer AS A midrange(wired to the midrange terminal of this 3 way crossover) and they never blew.(i did this because midranges blew even sooner than tweeters and i was fed up. To prevent over loudness of the midrange since theyre 10" bass woofers i have them facing the wall and have the midrange on EQ lowered). And the past 5 years i've been using double end tweeter horns that have a longer life than normal tweeters. The 2 actually still work but the loudness of the treble has decreased, that is why i bought 8 new super bullet tweeters to give it a try.
 
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slipperybidness

slipperybidness

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks for your replies. Do bass woofers always have a longer life than tweeters?I've been using the 2 (high end) bass woofers(actually they are a part bass,part sub 15" woofer) wired to this 3 way crossover for over 15 years and they never blew, and still play like new. The cheaper tweeters and mid ranges blew through the years. The past 10 years i've been using (not an 8" midrange-i used that at beginning) but a 12" bass woofer AS A midrange(wired to the midrange terminal of this 3 way crossover) and they never blew.(i did this because midranges blew even sooner than tweeters and i was fed up. To prevent over loudness of the midrange since theyre 12" bass woofers i have them facing the wall and have the midrange on EQ lowered). And the past 7 years i've been using double end tweeter horns that have a longer life than normal tweeters. The 2 actually still work but the loudness of the treble has decreased, that is why i bought 8 new super bullet tweeters to give it a try.
A properly designed speaker with an amp that is operating within it's safe range should NEVER blow out any components or drivers! Your EARS should get blown out before that happens.

If you are blowing tweeters, there is a fault in the design.

To be honest, the info that you are providing here, I doubt that anyone is surprised that you are blowing tweeters. Maybe surprised if that is the worst of your problems here.

Do you have pics of the actual speaker in use?
 
D

domic

Audioholic Intern
I can't upload pictures from my digital camera since im using a ps3 to get online.(so much trouble with computers through the years getting viruses 3 times yearly. no probs with my ps3, speaking of which, time to play deus ex). I'll probably buy a new speaker system some or more years from now. These super tweeters have a protective compacitor(yellow in color) on each one, im wondering if the compacitors will always protect them once i wire them to this crossover and increase highs on farthest right of EQ? When these and bass woofers all go, its a new speaker system for me.
 
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