Woofer size - Opinions plz

[mouettus]

I don't know if it's the fact that I own speakers with 5¼in for the first time but electric guitar has never felt so vibrant!! I just bough myself a pair of Energy C-100 Bookshelf speakers along with a NAD C320BEE integrated amp and I am truly satisfied! You've probably already read my other posts about "overbright sound" or "harsh sound at high volumes". Well, I think it was the speakers' fault (Polks). But now I think it lacks a little punch for the bass drum. I need a subwoofer along with my speakers to do so. My new stereo now replaces a Logitech computer surround system that came along with a 8in subwoofer that seemed to do a great job.
My question is: will I miss too much frequencies with a 8in woofer? Would I be best with a 10in one and still keep the fast punch beat that I need? I listen to alternative metal like Nickelback, Theory of a deadman, some other more agressive metal and "techno". Bass drum/double pedal is frequent and I like to hear it.

So what do you think guys... 8 or 10 inches?



p.s. Do I lose sound quality using Speakers Level Input/Output on a subwoofer because my stereo integrated doesn't have a sub pre-out. And I thought it would be great 'cuz I could cut the lower frequencies to my bookshelf speakers with the sub crossover. If so, who would be powering the speakers; the integrated amp or the sub amp?

Thanks

 

[Sheep]

The LFE in is only better with 5.1, and I still don't know how much better.

Before anyone can reccomend a sub, you need to tell use room size, budget, WAF constraints, space constraints, design preference, how much spl, how much extention, whether you like them tight, or a little boomy, etc etc.

SheepStar

 

[annunaki]

Personally I do not think you can start to call them "sub woofers" until they are at least a 10" or larger.

I would say you would want to do a 10" or 12". Especially if you like to turn it up once in awhile. What size is your listening room? A small room will alllow for a smaller sub.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Seeing how you live in Canada, I think HSU is screaming your name and saying 10", 10" ! Go with the STF-2 or VTF-2. You will still utilize the amplifier if you use the level inputs on the sub. You may lose a bit of control, but I doubt you'll lose sound quality using the subwoofer as your LFE control. Some surround receivers have excellent subwoofer control - add that to the controls on the sub, and you can almost dial the sub in perfectly.

From the HSU website:

STF subwoofers remove the Variable Tuning feature of the VTF line. VTF subwoofers can be tuned electronically and physically to play either loud or low, letting customers decide how deep to play.

 

[mouettus]

I'll quickly respond to all your questions

I don't think you really got the point here. This system is a music system only with small bookshelf speakers (5.25 inches woofers). This system won't play to ear bleeding levels. I like it loud though but I know when to shut it up.

I tested this system in a medium-to-large room and it didn't sound quite as good than in a small room (I loose the guitar vibration I was talking about). So it will stay in my bedroom connected to my computer or will go in a bedroom or small listening room when I'll get into another house. So I definitely think that HSU would be overkill for these C-100 Energy bookshelves And I don't even want to talk about a 12 inches drivers since they would not be fast enough for my kind of music. I know it... I have one in my car And think about it... Big mf subwoofer with small bookshelves powered by a 50 watts amplifier... lol I need bass quality... not output.

My budget is approx. 400-500 CAD since I can wait a bit and save my money before buying. WAF = none because she's approving me all the way for this project. She will use it as much as me and she has the same music tastes. Most of the time I play music at normal level but when I download a great song... I mean... I like to crank it up so it goes to loud levels. I'm not really used to SPL but I think I can go up to 80-90dB to enjoy. I'm sure these bookshelf speakers will be able to handle loud levels if I cut the lower frequencies down to a subwoofer.

So it still goes to my main question: 8 or 10 inches? Which brand? (I live in Canada lol)

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

The HSU subs I mentioned are 10". If that's too big, get the STF-1. As you know, woofer size doens't make a sub. It's all the pieces/parts and engineering that does this. If you were happy with the sound of an 8" Logitech sub, then I guess we're all overshooting your goal here.

 

[Sheep]

If you were happy with the sound of an 8" Logitech sub, then I guess we're all overshooting your goal here.

Oooooo,

Good point.

SheepStar

 

[mfabien]

With a pair of C-100, in a typical room, you can get 90 dB. The problem is that your low frequencies are limited to 50 Hz.

You will not regret investing in a 10" sub. You will discover new low sounds you have never heard before in your room.

 

[3db]

unless you listen to pipe organ music,

I don't know if it's the fact that I own speakers with 5¼in for the first time but electric guitar has never felt so vibrant!! I just bough myself a pair of Energy C-100 Bookshelf speakers along with a NAD C320BEE integrated amp and I am truly satisfied! You've probably already read my other posts about "overbright sound" or "harsh sound at high volumes". Well, I think it was the speakers' fault (Polks). But now I think it lacks a little punch for the bass drum. I need a subwoofer along with my speakers to do so. My new stereo now replaces a Logitech computer surround system that came along with a 8in subwoofer that seemed to do a great job.
My question is: will I miss too much frequencies with a 8in woofer? Would I be best with a 10in one and still keep the fast punch beat that I need? I listen to alternative metal like Nickelback, Theory of a deadman, some other more agressive metal and "techno". Bass drum/double pedal is frequent and I like to hear it.

So what do you think guys... 8 or 10 inches?



p.s. Do I lose sound quality using Speakers Level Input/Output on a subwoofer because my stereo integrated doesn't have a sub pre-out. And I thought it would be great 'cuz I could cut the lower frequencies to my bookshelf speakers with the sub crossover. If so, who would be powering the speakers; the integrated amp or the sub amp?

Thanks

not much music goes below 40Hz. Its the excpetion rather than the rule. So in this case, a sub with an 8" subwoofer will do fine; especially if its intended purpose is music only. Although I wasn't a fan of the older Axiiom subs for HT purposes, they did quite well for music. I would check for an Axiom Epicenter175, a 10" model or its 8"equivalent, Epicenter125 I think. Also I would look into PSB's Subzero, an 8" sub which is also very good for music. Good luck and have fun.

 

[annunaki]

I'll quickly respond to all your questions

And I don't even want to talk about a 12 inches drivers since they would not be fast enough for my kind of music. I know it... I have one in my car And think about it... Big mf sub woofer with small bookshelves powered by a 50 watts amplifier... lol I need bass quality... not output.

That is a complete myth. Chances are, the sub woofer in your car has seriously bloated 60hz-40hz response, which, in turn, drowns your mid/high range making the sub seem boomy or, in your terms, "slow". A well designed 12 inch sub woofer with enclosure will trounce even a well designed 8" any day of the week. It needs less power to achieve the same output levels and does not need to move as far to reproduce low frequencies. In other words overall system efficiency is greater. Sure, it may not play at 130hz as accurately, but from 85hz and down a competant 12 is just as accurate as an 8 and will play considerably lower.

I n your case though a well designed 10 would probably fit the bill.

 

[mouettus]

Note on the side: My car subwoofer is an infinity. It has a sub pre-out on my head unit and is crossed over at 50hz and my speakers are filtered below 80hz. It`s not even fast enough...

I think you are right. A well designed 10" sub would suit me best even if music don`t go below lets say an average of 40hz (which a 8 can handle). But still I need something fast!! I think the smallest HSU (STF-1 I think) would be best for me. I think a closed enclosure would be more performant though. Still I would appreciate your comments. Thank you so much.

 

[westcott]

I really do not think that driver size is really the deciding factor to a subwoofers performance. I have heard subwoofers like the Martin Logan Depth that uses 9" drivers that blows away MANY more well recognized names with drivers much larger.

Audition as many as you can sit in front of and then decide.

 

[Sheep]

I really do not think that driver size is really the deciding factor to a subwoofers performance. I have heard subwoofers like the Martin Logan Depth that uses 9" drivers that blows away MANY more well recognized names with drivers much larger.

Audition as many as you can sit in front of and then decide.

Thats 8" drivers.

SheepStar

 

[annunaki]

I can personally attest that driver size means nothing. I went from a Velodyne HGS-10 which is a highly regarded 10" sub, to a SVS PB12-Ultra. The difference was HUGE. The SVS was much more accurate and detailed. In a word, supple. Not to mention I had loads more output (if needed) and WAY more extension. Granted, it is considerably larger, but it is totally worth it.

As far as your car system is concerned, I would still venture to guess that it is running hot in the 40hz-60hz range. The best way to check it out would be with an RTA. Most vehicles have a transfer function between 30hz-60hz. Because of the vehicle's size they usually bloat response in this area, thus making the subwoofer seem sloppy.

 

[Sheep]

As far as your car system is concerned, I would still venture to guess that it is running hot in the 40hz-60hz range. The best way to check it out would be with an RTA. Most vehicles have a transfer function between 30hz-60hz. Because of the vehicle's size they usually bloat response in this area, thus making the subwoofer seem sloppy.

So true.

My brothers car system is the same way. Its fun, but not good when I want to seriously listen.

SheepStar

 

[mouettus]

Alright... you convinced me then. I'll try to look for a 10" instead.

I want YOUR opinion on one that you think would perform well with music only (since this system plays 100% music). 8 or 10 inches... I don't care now. Just give me something fast. Take note that I live in canada and cannot audition many subwoofers here since there is only futureshop and bestbuy around Maybe I'd trust HSU and SVS for internet direct buying based on your opinions (yes... based on your opinions lol). I know that choosing speakers that way is wrong but I seriously trust these better than Quest, Yamaha, Infinity and maybe even Paradigm available in stores here (that I cannot even take home for a listen without buying --> no refund. I already own a Velodyne DPS-10 and it would be oversized/overkill for my little music system here.

Thanks

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

HSU is offering 10% off this week on all their subs. Go get one while the going is good.

 

[Sheep]

HSU is offering 10% off this week on all their subs. Go get one while the going is good.

Isn't it while the getting is good?

SheepStar