Why not Bose?

[MtB]

Small with good sound

For something so small, they do sound pretty good, to my ears. I know they wont stand up to my home stereo rig, but for the size, they are pretty good. Of course I am not going to dish out $500 for a clock radio. But still, if I can get one for $100, I'll probably go for it.

I've decided that anyone who listens to Bose speakers and is surprised by the sound quality has never used $100 computer speakers.

In that light, I recommend that everyone considering small speakers for their radio or iPod or whatever simply go to Google and search for "computer game speakers review" for some good ideas.

Altec Lansing (http://www.altecmm.com) and Cambridge Soundworks both make excellent cube speakers in that size category. Logitech and Creative both make 5.1 and 7.1 cube shielded speaker systems for under $500 that can be attached to TOSLink fibre optic cables with DTS decoding built-in.

 

[Audioholics]

I'm reviewing the Logitech Z-5500 system right now and I concur, though these speakers cannot really be used with a home theater system per se - it's connections almost insist that it be PC-based.

 

[sjdgpt]

IMHO

Many, MANY years ago, Bose really wasn't that poor of a brand of speakers. With the right equipment, in the right room, Bose 901's and the smaller brother of the 901's, the 601's, could actually sound half way decent, and on musical works that the listener was not familiar with, especially with jazz, the speakers could actually sound quite impressive. Bose was pretty gimicky, quite expensive (relative to the competition) but at least the speakers could sound respectable.

Move forward 20 to 25 years. Bose is still gimicky. And quite expensive when compared to the competition. In their defense, they are marketing to my mother.... I want it simple, easy, and I am not willing to put the effort into finding something better, and oh by the way, I have forgotten the sound that I heard the last time I went to a live musical event.

Is Bose all that bad? No. It is just that the sound quality of their $3000 system isnt dramatically better than the $300 off the shelf home theater in a box HTIB that half the world is satisfied with. The $3000 Bose is most likely better than most $300 HTIB, just not a huge improvement. Compared to a $1000 HTIB system, the Bose, might, on a good day, tie a $1000 HTIB for sound quality if the Bose system had a good tail wind and your ears were full of wax.

Got $3k to spend on a home theater? Take an hour or two from your busy schedule and visit one of the big box stores (BB CC etc), $300 for the DVD player, another $400 to $600 for the receiver, $100 in cables and a decent surge protector, and the balance ($2000+) in speakers. GREAT.

Got more time on your hands? Visit one of the speciality stores. Same purchase strategy and the results are even better. WOW.

The problem is that most of the stores want you to spend $500 on cables and in some of their opinions the $40 surge protector that I have protecting my $4000 computer system is so grossly under protecting my computer that I should be taken out back and skinned alive.

And the options. My oh my, the options.

And before you know it, you are back at Bose, saying, "you know $3000 isnt so bad, and it is sooo simple".

The motto of Bose should be "we simply take your money", because that is what it is... simple.

 

[alaric28]

what is Htiab?

Before anything, what does HTiab?

I havent went to anystore here but planning to. for now im searching and studying want i really want.

 

[flyv65]

Before anything, what does HTiab?

I havent went to anystore here but planning to. for now im searching and studying want i really want.

Home Theater in a Box. You would've figured it out in another minute or two.

Bryan...ain't that quick...

 

[Steve_Lazarus]

Great Forum, hello to everyone and I just wanted to throw my .02 out there concerning the "Bose" topic....
While I agree with most of the concerns about the pricing of HTIB systems that Bose offers and their performance, I have yet to hear anyone mention the performance of the 301's or 601's as independent speakers.
For some folks (myself anyway) find themselves in situations where using Bose speakers is a viable option. Being in the military and stationed in Italy I am relegated to purchasing "LARGE" items on base due to shipping limitations. I'm in the process of building my "$5,000" H/T pretty much as outlined here on the website, as a matter of fact it's just about identical. Today was my first look at it so I'm pretty happy with the research I done and choices I've made...
Sony KP-57WS510
Denon 2805 *instead of the Yamaha*
Denon 2910
The only deviation I've made is with speaker selection, not because I like Bose, but because I really don't have another option, that's all they carry here on base. Another great marketing move by Bose in my opinion.
To be honest with you I appreciate the fact that they care enough to cater to the military, why don't other manufacturers have products over here?? As a matter of fact there is a Bose rep that comes by on a monthly basis on scheduled weekends to help out customers and answer questions, another great marketing tool...
I would have probably went with Klipsch, Polk, Axiom, on and on and on if I had the opportunity, but they aren't here !!! and wish they were...
I'm using the following Bose
VCS-10 Center - $170
601's - Rears - $440
301's - MidL/MidR - $250
Infinity Mains and a Velodyne Sub; those I brought over with me...
To be honest I wouldn't have gone with Bose, but due to the dollar being so weak over here in Europe, if I bought speakers out in town I'd be paying an arm, a leg, and probably a Kidney.
Just to give you a baseline or idea, the Denon 2900 you can pick up for $400-$600, would cost me 1,100 Euro, which equates to right around $1,500 U.S. dollars. So I'm sure you can understand my thinking when I chose the Bose speakers and to be honest I think my set-up sounds great!!!!!, SACD/DVD-A, movie tracks all sound amazing!!
To sum it up, I don't feel like I wasted my $860 on those Bose speakers, that's almost chump change considering the price of a mid to high end set of mains. I know I will get more speakers at some point when I get back to the states and they won't be Bose, but at the same time the one's I do have perform admirably and I enjoy the compliments I get when I have company over and I stick in Finding Nemo for the kids, or Saving Private Ryan for the adults and it puts a smile on everyone's face. I've become the "go to guy" for advice when it comes to home theater in my circle of friends over here in Italy, so I must be doing something right....

 

[sjdgpt]

I actually did mention the 601's.

As stand alone speakers they are not that bad. Not great, just not that bad.

Over the past weekend, I was in a small steak resturant that had small Bose speakers throughout the seating area. Don't know the model number.

Was the sound great? No. But it wasnt that bad either.

Just remember it is hightly doubtful that in this particular accoutical situation that any other brand of speaker would have done a better job.


Get the 601's.

Live with them, and when you get back on this side of the pond, you may decide that you want to keep them for the bedroom or den.

 

[toquemon]

I actually did mention the 601's.

As stand alone speakers they are not that bad. Not great, just not that bad.

Yes, but for the price they should sound very good, not just "not bad".

 

[BMXTRIX]

Bose is a rip off. That's the point. Bose spends money to fly a rep to military bases and has a deal with the commisary to provide our troops with excellent service... What, do you think Bose does it to be nice? No, they are charging you far more than what their product should cost to give you that extra value feel.

I would think other manufacturers have looked at the military and realized that there simply isn't enough of a push for their product within it to be a strong selling market. Bose thinks they can just charge more and people will still buy.

Bose isn't stupid - they are just a rip off and your money can always be better spent elsewhere... at least in the US.

 

[harlowek]

Why not Bose...read on!!!

The problem with Bose
written by Mike Shea on 2 July 2003

The cost of a Bose Lifestyle 50 home theater system is $3500. The cost of a Onkyo TX-SR 800 THX receiver and a Boston Acoustics System 9000 speaker package is $1800. The Onkyo / Boston system has similar speaker sizes, more accurate sound, and costs $1700 less. There is no advantage to the Bose Lifestyle 50.

Bose Acoustimass, Lifestyle, and 3-2-1 systems are expensive, inaccurate, and low quality. Better sounding home theater systems can be purchased for less money.

High Cost
A two speaker Bose Acoustimass 5 system costs $500 compared to highly rated and more accurate B&W 303 speakers running $250 a pair. The cost of Bose systems are often twice to five times higher than systems of greater sound quality. There is no statistical, ergonomic, or product quality advantage to the Bose systems.

Inaccuracy
The frequency range of a high quality home theater system should be 20Hz to 20,000Hz with less than + or - 3dB fluctuation in volume level and be able to output 105dB during loud peaks. DVDs and CDs are produced in mixing environments that match these specifications and THX uses these specifications for the certification of home theater equipment and environments. Bose Acoustimass speakers are only able to produce sound from 46Hz to 13.3kHz at + or - 10.5dB. Bose Acoustimass, Lifestyle, and 3-2-1 systems are not able to meet standard specifications expected by DVD sound producers.

Because of a frequency gap between the bass module and the cube speaker, Bose Acoustimass speakers lose all sound material from 200 to 280Hz, often the frequency range of a human voice. Because the bass module has frequencies as high as 200hz, a user is able to pick out the location of the bass module within a room. The Bose bass module is unable to reproduce frequency ranges below 46Hz while DVDs have bass down to 20hz.

The Bose Acoustimass cube speaker has a frequency range of 280Hz to 13.3kHz at + or - 10.5dB. Compare this to the 72Hz to 20kHz at + or - 3dB of the B&W DM303 bookshelf speaker. The removal of high frequency ranges will result in a loss of accuracy in DVD and CD material. The large 10dB fluctuation in frequency accuracy results in inaccurate sounds between 280Hz and 13kHz resulting in sound being louder or softer than the original recording.

The Bose Acoustimass bass module and cube speaker remove 1/4th of the sound originally presented by DVDs and CDs. The remaining 3/4ths is presented with a high degree of error, up to 10dB louder or softer than originally recorded.

Bose employs a direct / reflecting design that supposedly creates a larger sound stage by reflecting sound off of side walls. Movie theaters, recording studios, and professional home theater installations attempt to reduce or remove side wall reflections because they create sound where none was intended. Clap your hands in a movie theater and you will not hear the echo from the side walls. Bose's reflective design creates an inaccurate sound stage that was not originally intended with the source recording, and promotes the installation of a home theater in an unideal listening environment.

Bose Marketing, Why Does Bose Sound Good?
The engineering behind Bose speakers is designed to play to the sounds the human ear hears best. Through acoustical wizardry, Bose is able to create the illusion of accurate and full range sound. Bose cube-based speakers remove the advantages of proper sound editing by purposefully changing the sound of original source material.

This illusion of "rich sound" is fed by the physical size of the speakers as well. The hidden bass module helps produce low frequency sound while the listener only sees small speakers. This creates the "small speakers, big sound" response that Bose has built their company upon. This does not change the fact that Bose speakers are not accurately reproducing music or movie soundtracks.

The cost of Bose is another part of the illusion. By attaching a high price tag, Bose creates an exclusive mystique to their product. Many consumers who have not seen the full range of speaker selections consider Bose "high end". The high price of Bose products actually helps their marketing.

Through the use of high priced marketing, wide availability, and sales promotions, Bose has built a massive market for their speakers. While word of mouth among consumers is often favorable, many owners have negative feedback. The $1300 Bose Acoustimass 15 speaker package has received a rating of 2.54 out of 5 averaged from over three hundred consumer reviews from Audio Review. In comparison, the Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 loudspeaker received a rating of 4.97 out of 5 in fifty nine consumer reviews. A full Ascend Acoustics home theater speaker package costs $1308.

Bose does not publish frequency ranges, accuracy, distortion levels, or power output for the Lifestyle or Acoustimass systems in their instructions, brochures, or website. Bose sued Consumer Reports for faulty testing procedures for an unfavorable report.

Instead of describing compatibility with Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS audio decoding standards, the Lifestyle system reports that it is "Digital 5.1 compatible". While higher priced Bose Lifestyle systems supposedly include native Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS decoding, they do not discuss it on their website. Bose product descriptions for specifications and decoding compatibility do not follow the industry standard format used by hundreds of other audio manufacturers.

The following table describes Bose Acoustimass products alongside comparable speaker packages. Review statistics are courtesy of Audioreview.com. Product specifications are from the product web page or in the Acoustimass example from Sound and Vision, August 1999.

Product Price Frequency Range Fluctuation Number of Reviews Average Review Score
Bose Acoustimass 15 $1300 46Hz to 13.5kHz
(dropout at 200 to 280Hz) 10.5dB 305 2.54/5
Ascend Acoustics System 23-2001 $1308 25Hz - 20kHz 2dB 59 4.97/5
Boston Acoustics System 9000 $1000 29Hz-20kHz 3dB 52 4.75/5
B&W 303x4 mains, LCR3 center, Hsu VTF-2 subwoofer $1250 25Hz-20kHz 3dB 115 4.36/5 (302)
Home Theater Direct Level 2 $550 30Hz-20kHz not listed not listed not listed

Conclusion

 

[markw]

It's all mind over matter.

If you don't mind paying for styling and name recognition by the general public rather than the performance, then it doesn't matter.

 

[wilmeland]

"Impressive sound" can get old rather quickly. "Accurate sound" may not easily impress, but over time is much more satisfying.

Bose doesn't expect you to listen in their showroom all that long.

 

[pbdude99]

Why Bose Sucks

1) Inferior materials, every other good speaker maker uses polypropelyne for their cones and rubber, bose still uses paper which cracks easily and tears after use.

2) Components are not interchangeable

3) BOSE if for people who do not know/care enough about bang for the buck, you can get much better sound out of seperate system

4) Amplifier, bose uses the same amplifier that you find in car stereos which is a CHIP and not a true amplifier.

 

[Rob Babcock]

I would like to make one correction - there are some very expensive speakers that also use paper cones. Note that the Triangle Celius speakers, which got a Class A rating from Stereophile, use paper for all the drivers except the tweeter. The designer said he'd love to use a plastic driver if he could find one that sounded as good, but he hasn't. Likewise, there are some expensive & well regarded drivers that use foam surrounds. I'm thinking the legendary Adire Shiva sub has a foam surround. Of course, just because B(l)ose and Triangle both use paper drivers doesn't mean they're equal quality.

 

[Devastateu]

You guys have given me a better insight on speakers and I thank you for that. So you think that package speakers are overall a bad investment?

 

[BMXTRIX]

If anyone can read through these posts and come out thinking that Bose is even worth considering... well... I feel for your spouse.

Bose is a bad investment. Package speakers from OTHER companies should be researched, then ask some questions. There are many companies making speaker packages and HTIB (home theater in boxes) systems that are excellent.

Onkyo for example has a sub $500.00 package that includes an A/V receiver and all the speakers you need including a subwoofer. It's not as pretty as Bose, but hey, it actually sounds good, is far more versatile and expandable and with the $2,500.00 you have left over you can buy a Panasonic AE-700 projector, a 106" diagonal HDTV screen, and an $200.00 DVD player all hooked up with some decent cables.

 

[markw]

No. You misread.

So you think that package speakers are overall a bad investment?

To make that statement is like saying that since the Yugo was a bad subcompact car, all subcompact cars are bad.

As far as smaller packaged speakers go, there are many outstanding performers at very reasonable prices. Check out the Hsu Ventriloquist, Athena's Micra 6 and many, many others. ...just avoid Bose.

 

[20to20K]

Analogy

Asking most audio people "why not Bose' is like asking a jazz fan "why not Kenny G?" To average joe consumer Kenny G is playing jazz. Sounds like jazz, I find it in the jazz section of Best Buys, and it outsells everything else on the market. Why not Kenny G?

If Kenny G is good enough for you, then Bose should be good enough for you.

I'm a Coltrane man myself...

 

[wafflebird]

Why not Bose you ask, please read on

Hey guys love the forums there great and I also have an appreciation for sound quality. I have just recently replaced my older Kenwood HTiaB (which I have to say for what I paid for it was A OK) but I had run out of high definition inputs on my Hitachi HDTV. Also the Kenwood was not being used for any video processing. Without trying to be too long winded I will explain my journey and my final decision. Let me say I am lacking words to describe how happy I am with what I have now.

I started this journey out set on purchasing Bose. Many trips to Best Buy and CC eventually led me to another local AV retailer Sound Advice. They tend to carry the higher end componentry and I needed a receiver with at least 3 HD inputs. I met up with a Salesman there named Al. I expressed my interest in Bose and he asked me a very simple question, "Have you ever listened to them without the bass module?” Naturally my answer was no. So he blessed me with that opportunity. Now do not mistake my intentions as I do not really mean to cast a negative light.... (Uh.. actually my morale character forces me to) the Bose really had poor sound quality. I believe the article on the previous page bears a very distinct and factual look into why; they are basically short on frequency. Bear in mind that this was important enough for me to join the forum to make this point. Obviously ANY small speaker will be short on bass response it just is not possible to get tremendous bass out of a small speaker. But without the bass module the Bose were completely unimpressive.

Now for any of you wondering what I ended up with I must say that I was extremely impressed with the Mirage Omnisats, to the point of purchasing 4 of them for Satellites, I decided on the Mirage Omni CC (CC= Center Channel) for the front center and I went with a Velodyne DLS-3750R sub. I also went with the Yamaha RX-V2500 receiver. I do not really see the Mirage speakers mentioned that much in the forums but I have to say that if you are looking for REAL QUALITY SOUND in a small package these speakers deserve a close look to any of you looking for excellent sound in a small package. Bose could not hold a candle at the feet of the Omnisats.

This decision was made after countless hours searching, listening to music and watching Black Hawk Down at the store. Al was a trooper. In a comparison between the Omnisats and the Bose with no sub the choice was deadly easy to make.

We are fortunate to live in a time where we have so many quality choices to make. But if you are looking for bang for your buck do yourself a favor, look away from Bose. Sorry for the long post but I do not want to see any body waste their money or time. And I also am aware of the fact that my system was a little more than the original poster. But I went with a higher end receiver. The Mirage Omnisats are incredible.

If you still really want to look at the Bose have the salesman turn off the sub and then see what you hear!!!!!!!!!

 

[sjdgpt]

If you still really want to look at the Bose have the salesman turn off the sub and then see what you hear!!!!!!!!!

Then, have the sales dude disconnect those little speakers, and just listen to the sub. If you can hear a singer's voice, especially a female voice, coming from the sub, the sub is not a sub, as voice is handled the midrange drivers.