why have towers if you have a sub as well?

[BobbyT]

At what price range does it just start getting to be a ridiculous waste of money if you are on a budget and satisfied with very good sound and don't need immaculate sound?

I mean, I know wealthy people can go ballistic with getting the best equipment, but where should the average guy that wants good sound on a middle class budget, w rent/mortgage and a family, draw the line...and not have to get what you guys might consider crap?

This can only be answered by each individual. The stopping point for me is a lot higher than some people and a lot lower than others. This is a hobby.

I'm qualified to be the average guy with wife, daughter, cat, dog, mortgage, car payment, etc. I used to have an inexpensive system that sounded good. I dumped all of my play money into a jet ski and an offroad vehicle and spent most of my time enjoying those hobbies and watching movies/listening to music here and there. 2 years ago I got hurt at work and was out for 8 months. In those 8 months I did a lot more watching and listening. When the injury finally healed my doctor highly recomended giving up my hobbies. So I sold everything because being able to enjoy my family and keep injury free was most important. All of the money went into my remaining hobby-home audio. And now 2 years and 2 raises later I'm doing yet another upgrade.

You can have a very nice system with not a lot of money. But if you really get into like myself and others then you can put more of your disposable money into upgrading. Many people like me start with a nice system and then improve on it piece by piece.

 

[Jaycan]

Why do you have to cross the mains at 80Hz? If they extend to 30 Hz, then run them as LARGE, FULL RANGE, and cross over the center and sorrounds. Whatever LFE the mains can't reproduce, the sub will. All receivers give you the option of sending low bass and LFE to all speakers, and if they are full range, that is the way I would go. Isn't sorround nirvana identical full range speakers all around, set at full bandwidth, plus a sub, or 2, or 3?

 

[Doug917]

Jaycan,

I always set my crossover to 80Hz or higher. My mains will produce lower than that but you start having issues with low frequencies cancelling each other out. I feel this muddies the sound tremendously. When I let the subs handle all the bass my setup sounds so much better and clearer. In my opinion and tweaking sessions I think all lower frequencies should be sent to the sub.

 

[Jaycan]

I think all lower frequencies should be sent to the sub.

Except my sub distorts and flaps around like a beached fish at reference SPL levels. I have never been able to break a sweat with my Legacy Focus 20/20s. I am getting a new sub in a day or 2 however, the Snell sub24, to replace the Vandy 2WQ, and maybe this will change my setup. It seems counterproductive however to buy large expensive main towers for both music and HT, and then cross them at 80Hz, regardless of THX recommendations!

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

At what price range does it just start getting to be a ridiculous waste of money if you are on a budget and satisfied with very good sound and don't need immaculate sound?

I mean, I know wealthy people can go ballistic with getting the best equipment, but where should the average guy that wants good sound on a middle class budget, w rent/mortgage and a family, draw the line...and not have to get what you guys might consider crap?

Anyone can build a top system for under $2400
($2600 if you want 7.1)
Here's how I'd budget the money:

Receiver ~$900
2 towers, one center, and two surrounds ~$600
Sub ~$600
DVD player ~$180
interconnects ~$100

I may be overdoing it on the receiver, but I like a lot of current, and very low distortion. That means stepping it up a bit from a Pioneer favorite such as the 1015 to a HK flagship (7000/8000/7200/7300). I'm also overdoing it on the sub, but you need a fantastic sub to round out a fantastic HT system. HSU/SVS in that price range. The DVD player - any of Panasonic's multi player high end units are fine. Speakers - since the center channel is so important with HT, I'd go with the BIC CLRS 62, then naturally round it out with the DV84's and DV62's. They're efficient and have very good mids/highs for dialogue. You can obviously increase the budget for higher end speakers, but you can't skimp on the receiver, nor the sub IMHO.

 

[mulester7]

.....my mains have the best realism I have ever heard low-mids up....but....they are two way, and there is a small noticable gap between them and the subs....it could be being caused by the mains sitting on top of the subs on a quarter folded towel, and not on the floor, but anyway, I want the mains up there for the projection qualities mids up, with the voices imaging at a height of about 55-57 inches from the floor....so here's what I am going to do....

.....I'm getting another pair of mains the same, and putting two up on each sub and paralleling the two to an amp side....now the 6 ohm speakers (2) will be getting hit with about 1000 watts of 3 ohm headroom on each side....hello lower stuff from the double mains....with the sub taking it to the floor....imaging/point you can chin yourself on....maybe, haha....opinions?....please....does anyone feel I will take a hit in the mids up?......

 

[Jaycan]

Which amp do you plan to use for this torture?

 

[mulester7]

Which amp do you plan to use for this torture?

.....Jaycan, one Crown K2 will push the four mains, and it shouldn't be a torture test as I really don't play stuff to THAT loud at all, and don't need to.....

....if I don't get better lows from the mains, or I lose some quality or transparent presence from the mids up, the second pair will go to rears on the floor, and the smaller rears will become side-supports mounted on the sidewalls pointing a little down on the sweetspot slightly behind center of the ears....

.....you can bet we'll play with every option like a certain Samurai does....Mr. AB....yeah, the same one who answers the most #1 posts of threads with a #2.....and nails it, imo....the guy needs a raise........

 

[Nick250]

Anyone can build a top system for under $2400
($2600 if you want 7.1)
Here's how I'd budget the money:

Receiver ~$900
2 towers, one center, and two surrounds ~$600
Sub ~$600
DVD player ~$180
interconnects ~$100

I may be overdoing it on the receiver, but I like a lot of current, and very low distortion. That means stepping it up a bit from a Pioneer favorite such as the 1015 to a HK flagship (7000/8000/7200/7300). I'm also overdoing it on the sub, but you need a fantastic sub to round out a fantastic HT system. HSU/SVS in that price range. The DVD player - any of Panasonic's multi player high end units are fine. Speakers - since the center channel is so important with HT, I'd go with the BIC CLRS 62, then naturally round it out with the DV84's and DV62's. They're efficient and have very good mids/highs for dialogue. You can obviously increase the budget for higher end speakers, but you can't skimp on the receiver, nor the sub IMHO.

I am stunned! You have got to be kidding! In a $2400 total system budget you want to spend $600 for 5 speakers and $900 for the receiver???? Boy have your got that budget out of wack. In this price range the receiver has practially nothing to do with the sound and the speakers practially everything! You will get far, far better sound with something along the lines of:

Speakers: $1200
Receiver: $500
Sub (Hsu): $450
DVD Player: $100 (The receiver will be doing the decoding)

Lets see that is $2250. Great! Take that extra $150 in the total budget and add it to the speaker budget!

In general, IMO, one should use about 70% of the total system budget for speakers.

 

[warnerwh]

Something nobody has yet brought up: With a set of full range speakers and a sub or two you can get a better in room frequency response. I run my full range speakers with a sub. These speakers are 6k a pair and will definitely go low but with the sub in the corner my room modes are less pronounced. The sub is crossed at 45hz and speakers are run full range. And yes there's much more music information down below there than most people might think. This allows me to pull out my mains for best imaging and the least amount of room related problems and get a better bass response. In other words, having the bass being reproduced at different points in the room you can get a smoother response. I'm pretty sure there's an article on this site explaing room modes if you don't understand them. Very good reading and necessary to get the best your system is capable of.

 

[mulester7]

Something nobody has yet brought up: With a set of full range speakers and a sub or two you can get a better in room frequency response. I run my full range speakers with a sub. These speakers are 6k a pair and will definitely go low but with the sub in the corner my room modes are less pronounced. The sub is crossed at 45hz and speakers are run full range. And yes there's much more music information down below there than most people might think. This allows me to pull out my mains for best imaging and the least amount of room related problems and get a better bass response. In other words, having the bass being reproduced at different points in the room you can get a smoother response. I'm pretty sure there's an article on this site explaing room modes if you don't understand them. Very good reading and necessary to get the best your system is capable of.

.....absolutely, Warnerwh, I would let the mains eat to the bottom, AS LONG, as nothing got offensive in the lows of the mains....there's some guys out there who aren't able to move up at this time, that have mains that are whompy and "slightly distorted" at the bottom and the mids seem weak....listen, try this, I will buy any equipment damaged.....I say again, if the low end of your mains is, let's say, heavy, and it overshadows the lower and mid-mids, using receiver or slave amp, for the 50th time--less strain is put on the amp section pushing it, "cross", the speaker wires, and behold....cranked.....you'll have your sub/s to keep you warm if you worry about losing too much bass....but you're only losing mud....reverse inductance path with the same crossover points is all that happens with what's going through the elements.....

.....hey, maybe your speakers will sound horrible crossed, I don't know, but I'll tell you this, mine sure didn't.....won't hurt a thing to leave them crossed for the next 50 years, neithern.....you may need to cut the highs at about whatever smooths the raspy, if you have raspy, I did, some of you won't....ladders, to bed....mule......

 

[rikmeister]

or you could take the 2400 to vegas and try and muscle it up to 5000.00 and get an

awesome system. denon 4806 axiom speakers 80Ti and surrounds and hsu sub and an oppo dvd and maybe a sony 60 xs955 on top . if that does not work use the old system and get some duct tape. remember the men may hate you but the women will love ja.

 

[Snarl]

Currently I have;

Denon AVR-3805
2 x Paradigm Monitor 11's Mains
1 x Paradigm PW-2100 Sub

I was going to add;

2 x Paradigm Monitor 7's Surrounds
1 x Paradigm CC-370 CenterChannel

Now I'm still researching the dipole/bipole/monopole thing but generally speaking I'd love to hear some suggestions/opinions.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Now I'm still researching the dipole/bipole/monopole thing but generally speaking I'd love to hear some suggestions/opinions.

The dipoles sound best in a 5.1 setup. A 7.1 drowns out the dipoles. A 5.1 setup with dipoles is practically a 7.1 in disguise. I have dipoles, and a 7.1. Tried it both ways.

 

[hifiman]

Why have towers instead of bookshelf speakers? Because I'm a man! As men we like to do everything to excess: We might drive Chryslers, but we want supercars that go insanely fast. In audio we all care about specs (read as bragging rights). A 7 channel amp with 100 watt per channel is probably all I need, but if I could I'd want 7 - 1000 watt monoblocks that weigh 200 lbs each and need a room addition to house them. My sub with 2 - 12" woofers and 400 watt amp provided plenty of boom, but if I could I'd want 7 Velodyne 1812's and move the furniture out of the living room to make room for them. And as for bookshelf speakers, I know there are plenty out there that sound great, but I'm a guy, I want an 8 ft tall tower with 20 drivers for each of the seven channels, which I now have room for since I already moved all the furniture out