Why do we feel Bass and how does it affect us?

[Eng-399]

I think this thread has gone off the deep end. The SPLs that many are talking about, if they are accurate, are not even close to safe to be exposed to for short term and definitely not sustained. I can see the allure of wanting to turn it up as much as we possibly can, since it is exciting. Like driving a Ferrari or Corvette at its limits. If you don't crash the car then great, it was a thrilling experience without any side effects. Pushing our systems like discussed in this thread, while it won't kill you, will likely lead to hear damage. The problem with hearing damage is that the onset if often delayed many years.

To me being a basshead and home theater enthusiasts, it doesn't make sense trying losing my hearing for a maybe thrilling experience now. I encourage those who aren't aware to look at the Osha standards to see what is acceptable levels to listen to (https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9735 ). For me I feel safe listening at reference volume or less, since it is often recorded at that level. The recording engineers are the test subjects letting us know that this is likely safe without permanent damage over a long period of time. But, I find it more comfortable to stay below reference levels, since it is uncomfortable to me.

The last few posts that I posted I thought I would show where shadyj performed the bass test and the level that room can go up to. I'm not trying to derail the thread but I thought other audioholics would want to know the limits of my room that was tested and also questioned in previous posts. I don't play at these levels that often because of the dangers of hearing loss. I do get my ears checked every year since I work in a cogeneration plant as an engineer as my work requires this every year and so far so good thank god!
One thing I want to add though is if your in a room that has a flat fq response you would be surprised how loud it can get without any hearing fatigue when done by a professional.
I won't post anymore things about the room though so this thread won't be derailed.

 

[shadyJ]

One thing to mention is that the higher the SPL level, the more visceral the bass. If you want truly body pounding bass, you will have to crank up the sound, and there is no way around that. There is also no way around the danger of loud sounds to hearing; the risk is very real and too often ignored. That is, of course, a bit of a dilemma for us hobbyists. Here is one solution: linear ear plugs. Whereas normal earplugs will greatly reduce the high frequencies and make everything sound as if you are underwater, linear ear plugs (well, they aren't truly linear, but much more so than normal ear plugs) affect the frequency response of what you are hearing much less. It's more like turning down the volume on everything. The advantage of this approach is you can get more palpable bass without subjecting your ears to as dangerous levels of sound. You still have to be careful though- as the article says, loud bass can make your ears more vulnerable to other damaging sounds. Etymotic is not the only business that sells these things. Look for 'musician's ear plugs'. Eng-99, give something like these musician's ear plugs a try, you may find watching above reference-level scenes easier to experience and no less ass-kicking as well.

 

[Klipschhead302]

I think this thread has gone off the deep end. The SPLs that many are talking about, if they are accurate, are not even close to safe to be exposed to for short term and definitely not sustained. I can see the allure of wanting to turn it up as much as we possibly can, since it is exciting. Like driving a Ferrari or Corvette at its limits. If you don't crash the car then great, it was a thrilling experience without any side effects. Pushing our systems like discussed in this thread, while it won't kill you, will likely lead to hear damage. The problem with hearing damage is that the onset if often delayed many years.

To me being a basshead and home theater enthusiasts, it doesn't make sense trying losing my hearing for a maybe thrilling experience now. I encourage those who aren't aware to look at the Osha standards to see what is acceptable levels to listen to (https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_table=STANDARDS&p_id=9735 ). For me I feel safe listening at reference volume or less, since it is often recorded at that level. The recording engineers are the test subjects letting us know that this is likely safe without permanent damage over a long period of time. But, I find it more comfortable to stay below reference levels, since it is uncomfortable to me.

Well, that's the wonderful thing behind opinions, to me, if it might be able to reach something, comfortable or not, I like to push it once or twice to see if it gets there. But then, I jumped off of a barn roof into a small pile of hay, got into a fight with a guy over a foot taller and easily 100lbs heavier, oh, I lost, I lost good, but he never, ever pushed me again and had to have his ribs fixed.

How many things do we all do that isn't "safe", by choice, if we all stuck to being safe this country wouldn't be here and we never would have made it to the moon. If people want to make sure they never push the limits to stay safe, then the great thing is, they won't push the limits.... their choice.

Many people on here have hearing damage, I'm 52, went to plenty of concerts and I'm sure mine is no longer perfect but the experiences I have had far out weigh the risks. I had my girlfriend on my shoulders in 1982 when Sammy Hagar did Chicago Fest, I was front row and back then before Osha mandated things, they had the wall of speakers (God knows how much power) and I couldn't hear for crap for 2 days after that one, it was AWESOME.

I played hockey for 23 years, many of them in semi-pro (I started playing at 2), my back is shot, my knees are shot, my elbows are shot, I cut the end of my thumb off twice, almost in the exact same spot. I shattered my ribs on the left side and had to have part of a hockey stick removed from those ribs... Knowing how unsafe that was and how I am paying for it now, I would go back and do it all over again. When I croak I can say I went in sliding, not laying down, well, I probably won't be able to slide, one of those knees of mine are likely to fall off, but I'll be trying!

Course, this is just me, I don't mind being uncomfortable once in a while to see where the limits are.

 

[Klipschhead302]

One thing to mention is that the higher the SPL level, the more visceral the bass. If you want truly body pounding bass, you will have to crank up the sound, and there is no way around that. There is also no way around the danger of loud sounds to hearing; the risk is very real and too often ignored. That is, of course, a bit of a dilemma for us hobbyists. Here is one solution: linear ear plugs. Whereas normal earplugs will greatly reduce the high frequencies and make everything sound as if you are underwater, linear ear plugs (well, they aren't truly linear, but much more so than normal ear plugs) affect the frequency response of what you are hearing much less. It's more like turning down the volume on everything. The advantage of this approach is you can get more palpable bass without subjecting your ears to as dangerous levels of sound. You still have to be careful though- as the article says, loud bass can make your ears more vulnerable to other damaging sounds. Etymotic is not the only business that sells these things. Look for 'musician's ear plugs'. Eng-99, give something like these musician's ear plugs a try, you may find watching above reference-level scenes easier to experience and no less ass-kicking as well.

Agreed, could of used them in 1982!! When I have cranked mine to insane levels (maybe twice a year to test it) the bass intensity is incredible! Being a small room has its advantages and when hard deep notes hit it's an experience as much as it is hearing the music.

 

[basspig]

Oh what a fun topic. And the physiological information was a fascinating read.

As my system resides on a concrete slab that is 24" thick, I lack the luxury of getting floor shaking bass with just a couple of 15" subs. I had to eventually move to industrial subs, the stuff used to project bass across outdoor stadiums. But I got my slab to shake. And cracked it in several places.

My favored listening level is 133dB on the bass below 50Hz and 117dB for the middle range with 127dB peaks for percussive hits. Subs are 112dB sensitive as configured in the array, and 129dB SPL at 8 feet is attained at the point where 'signal present' LED flickers on the QSC Powerlight amplifiers driving the woofers and subs. That's about 6 watts. Most of my visitors dart out of the room at that level, some complaining it caused chest pains. I personally enjoy it, and want more. Back in '06, when I was testing the new subs in my former bomb shelter (house was built during the Cuban missile crisis), the 24Hz bass note in a Korean pop tune was putting in 97dB SPL about 1/4 mile down the end of the road. Inside the room may have been in the mid 150s, but my CEL 201 only measures to 140dB, so I lack the tool to properly measure it. As a safety precaution, the circuit breaker to the power amps is a 15A Potter & Brumfield magnetic breaker. That saved one of my QSCs from serious fire damage when a MOSFET in the power supply failed the following January.

I sometimes wonder if some of my current health issues stem from subjecting myself to very high SPLs at low frequencies. I just got back from the doc today and learned I have high blood pressure. I went in because of severe back and rib pain.

 

[andyblackcat]

Frankly, I don't believe you. I've tested my system at 100db at 25Hz, and it was starting to make me nauseous after about 10 seconds. 129db would probably be absolutely disorienting. Were you in the room when you ran this test?

I guess its different for everyone due to maybe health conditions (not age) just health conditions. Some low sine frequencies make me feel uncomfortable at even lower SPL of 90db or 80db after short while. I can't recall but I think 50Hz to 80Hz. I think it depends on health condition and how each person feels each day?

 

[sterling shoote]

I enjoy having a sub for the pleasure it adds to dance music, makes me want to get off the couch and shuffle dance. But, for me, there's a point where bass loudness transcends from pleasure to pain; and, since I'm not into pain, that's a distraction to the desired experience. Another distraction is the too frequent need to adjust a sub's output to seem appropriate for whatever stereo music, multi-channel music, or movie that's entertaining me. At any rate, after 32 years of marginality good bass integration within my system, I have now taken advantage of all of my system's bass management features to get bass output which seems right from all media, eliminating my need to adjust sub gain for whatever medium I'm engaged with. For stereo music, any source, I use my prepro's DSP function to manage bass, for multi-channel SACD I use my OPPO's bass management function, and for movies I am now using my analog multi-channel preamplifier's controls to manage bass for 5.1. Certainly, bass does have a feel to it, mentally and physically; yet, I am completely satisfied with it at a moderate SPL level. I just do not need BASS at a high SPL to be entertained by it.