My statement was in response to the post referring to those subwoofer placement graphs/charts in the white paper. Those graphs show no significant improvement between 1 sub vs 2 sub vs 3 sub vs 4 sub vs 5 sub when all the subs are in the same front wall. The graphs show that only 4 subwoofer placement locations have significant improvement in the subwoofer measurement, while the other 16+ other locations do not.
Did Floyd say in words that having one sub on each side of the SAME FRONT wall made significant improvement? I hope he did day that because that has always been my experience.
Actually this whole debate started because someone else said that having one sub on each side of the front wall (1/4W) is among the WORST subwoofer placements, which I DISAGREED with. I think having one sub on each side of the front wall is a lot better than having only one sub.
OK, that's enough. I was about to leave this alone until I saw that last paragraph.
That is false and you know it. "Actually..." my arse.
The truth is that "this whole debate" started when
you misrepresented the Harman subwoofer research in order to push an RBH setup by
stating: [full quote; my bold]
My recommendation is the RBH SX-8300, which you can probably get for under $3500 (MSRP $5K).
Each tower has the equivalent of about one SX-1010 subwoofer if you actively bi-amp the bass using an external amp (like a $280 Crown XLS1000 or $300 HSU subwoofer amp). Thus, a pair of SX-8300 would be like having dual SX-1010 subwoofers, again if you actively bi-amp the bass using LFE. So you may not even need additional subwoofers.
In terms of the midrange and treble, I think they sound as good as any speaker I've heard.
In terms of bass, if you actively bi-amp them, they sound better than any speaker I've actually heard, except for the SX-T2.
In terms of best placement for bass/LFE effects, according to Harman International research, 2 of the best placements are the front corners and the front 1/4W corner, which is about where most people place their front 2 speakers.
So go to the RBH website and locate a dealer near you. Maybe they have some speakers for you to audition.
This "debate" effectively took the thread's attention off topic for a few of days and your
false statement above (
post 41) is a subtle attempt to "close the loop", distance yourself from it and influence others recollection of the distraction
you yourself created in the post below (
post 32).
Furthermore, if the "...someone else said that having one sub on each side of the front wall (1/4W) is among the WORST subwoofer placements," is referring to me, that's also deliberately misleading because that was a statement specifically addressing
your error and was clearly within the context of the Harman research. I was simply stating that the
Harman research showed those to be among the worst performing configurations. I did not draw any general conclusions beyond that or advocate particular positions. Remember,
you bought the Harman research to the table, not me.
When I pulled you up on the Harman
FUBAR in the
second part of
post 30, instead of manning-up and admitting to a mistake, what we got was a grinning excuse and a cleverly crafted piece of misdirection to deflect attention: [full quote; split up later]
Well, okay, I have to admit that I didn't study that paper for an exam or anything.
I only looked at them briefly. So it appears the best four 4 subwoofer placements are 1) 1 sub in front mid-wall, 1 sub in rear mid-wall, 2) 4 subs in 4 corners, 3) 4 subs in 4 mid-walls, 4) 4 subs in 1/4W corners.
But show me how many people place their 2 subwoofers in the front mid-wall (like anyone has room for both a subwoofer and a center speaker in the same spot) and the rear mid-wall (like anyone has room or wants to place a subwoofer behind their sofa).
It appears that placing subs in the 2 front corners or 2 front 1/4W corners is no better than placing all FIVE subwoofers all along the front wall.
Point is, even if you have 2 bookshelf speakers and 1 horizontal center speaker, your dual subwoofer placement anywhere along the front wall isn't going to be any better. It is a compromise, unless you place one sub in the front mid-wall and one sub in the rear mid-wall if you have dual subs.
The PRACTICAL realistic location of subwoofers means compromise. Most people will place their subwoofers somewhere along the front wall NEXT to their speakers. So having the subwoofer in the same location as the speaker isn't any worse than placing the subwoofer NEXT to their speakers, which is what MOST people do anyway.
Again, you talk as if people are actually going to place 1 subwoofer right in the center of the front wall and 1 in the center of the rear wall.
Anyone has room in the middle of the front wall for a big TV, rack, stand, center speaker, and oh, a big subwoofer too?
Yeah, hey, let's place a 20" x 20" subwoofer in FRONT of your TV or behind your TV.
People who don't have room for large speakers and have to buy SMALL bookshelf speakers are going to place their subwoofer along the front wall beside their left or right bookshelf speaker. Why? because they don't have ROOM for FLEX or FUNCTION.
Bottom line, get a rectangular room and 4 RBH SX-8300 and place them about 1/4W corners for the best subwoofer and speaker placement because no one in his gods-loving-mind is going to be placing his big subwoofers in front or behind his big screen TV.
In order:
Well, okay, I have to admit that I didn't study that paper for an exam or anything.
I only looked at them briefly.
A brief look is all it would've taken to glean the "best placements".
But show me how many people place their 2 subwoofers in the front mid-wall (like anyone has room for both a subwoofer and a center speaker in the same spot) and the rear mid-wall (like anyone has room or wants to place a subwoofer behind their sofa).
It appears that placing subs in the 2 front corners or 2 front 1/4W corners is no better than placing all FIVE subwoofers all along the front wall.
Point is, even if you have 2 bookshelf speakers and 1 horizontal center speaker, your dual subwoofer placement anywhere along the front wall isn't going to be any better. It is a compromise, unless you place one sub in the front mid-wall and one sub in the rear mid-wall if you have dual subs.
The PRACTICAL realistic location of subwoofers means compromise. Most people will place their subwoofers somewhere along the front wall NEXT to their speakers. So having the subwoofer in the same location as the speaker isn't any worse than placing the subwoofer NEXT to their speakers, which is what MOST people do anyway.
All this is
non sequitur to the
specific statements I made about the Harman research. This is just a smokescreen intended as a distraction to deflect attention.
Again, you talk as if people are actually going to place 1 subwoofer right in the center of the front wall and 1 in the center of the rear wall.
More nonsense! I said nothing of the sort. This takes the cake:
you actually
reversed the order of the quotes from my original post in order to conflate the two topics and make it appear that my specific statements about the Harman research flowed directly through to my opinions on speakers with integral subs. Again, this is deliberately misleading. These were responses to two
separate (albeit placement related) topics in two
consecutive posts from the OP and you. (My only mistake was putting them both in one post, apparently.)
Anyone has room in the middle of the front wall for a big TV, rack, stand, center speaker, and oh, a big subwoofer too?
Yeah, hey, let's place a 20" x 20" subwoofer in FRONT of your TV or behind your TV.
People who don't have room for large speakers and have to buy SMALL bookshelf speakers are going to place their subwoofer along the front wall beside their left or right bookshelf speaker. Why? because they don't have ROOM for FLEX or FUNCTION.
Hacking away at your straw man now! All this is just petulant bluff and bluster, unrelated to my response to the OP about speakers with integral subs and intended to deflect attention from being pulled up by a lowly "200 poster".
Bottom line, get a rectangular room and 4 RBH SX-8300 and place them about 1/4W corners for the best subwoofer and speaker placement because no one in his gods-loving-mind is going to be placing his big subwoofers in front or behind his big screen TV.
In the context of the Harman research findings? If so,
that configuration on its own is not going to work as intended, or particularly well at all. Can you tell us why? Should be easy to answer, now that you seem (from more recent posts) to be right across the Harman subwoofer research.
Over to you...
@all: Sorry for dragging this out, but I can't let this sort of stuff "through to the keeper", especially when my posts are being manipulated to misrepresent what I actually said.
If I cease posting soon after this, you'll have a good idea why.
