Which DVD Player would be best?

captain_tinker

captain_tinker

Audioholic
Hello folks,
This is going to be kind of a long post, but please bear with me... I have been reading these forums for a few weeks now, getting some good ideas, and trying to learn as much as I can. I am looking to start setting up my home theater, and I wanted to be able to get some things that would last well, and sound nice and look nice too. The only part of my system that I already have that is not going to change anytime soon will be my old RCA tube TV (with s-video input). I just don't have permission from the boss (wife). :rolleyes: Anyway, I have been looking at DVD players, receivers, and speakers. My budget is not very high, however I have found that I can get what seem to be some fairly decent components for not that much. I feel that I am pretty much set on getting the Marantz SR-5600 for my receiver, since I like the way it sounds, it has some nice features, and looks like I would be able to expand it over time. I am still looking at speakers, I have only had a chance to hear some Paradigm Titans, but I want to hear some other ones before I buy. But this thread is mainly about the DVD player I want to get. I have looked and decided that I want something that will play all my regular DVD's, my DVD+R's, and my DVD+RW's, my music CD's, some MP3's periodically (would be neat to be able to do it on a DVD too) and some JPG's once in a while. We like to sit down as a family and watch family picture slideshows from time to time. I don't really care about DivX, since I have not used it and don't plan on it, but it could be nice to have as a feature just in case. I have heard a lot of good and bad about DVD-A, and SACD, but honestly, I've never had the opportunity to actually hear one, nor have I ever seen one being sold in a store. I think I would like to be able to have the ability to play them, since I will eventually be getting enough speakers to do surround sound. At first though, I will only be getting the front right and left though. I probably won't get a sub until the kids grow up enough to understand not to stuff their toys into it! :eek:
Anyway, coming to the point finally, I have found that there are three or four DVD players that look really nice, that may fit very nicely into the budget and to the HT system. I have been looking at the Pioneer DV-588a, the Onkyo DV-SP502, and the Denon 1920. I would have liked the $600 Marantz DV6600, but it is way out of budget for me.
So basically, according to hometheaterhifi.com, the Pioneer 588a, and the Onkyo DV-SP502 are pretty much the same machine, same parts etc. Though the Onkyo is more expensive by about $100. I admit, I like the black box look to it though over the silly silver look of the Pioneer. My Hi-Fi store locally only sells the Pioneer though, not the Onkyo. In fact, I can't find anywhere nearby that sells the Onkyo, so I haven't been able to go and look at it and try it out. I've tried the Pioneer out though, but only a little bit. It seems like a decent player. I've heard some good things from users of the Denon 1920, but the hometheaterhifi.com's review of the 1910, which I assume is the immediate predecessor of the 1920, was not really that positive on some points, and I don't know if the 1920 has changed much from that model or not. (anyone know?) I can get it locally here, and have looked at it, but not tried it out. Anyway, those are the three that I have been looking at. Each can play pretty much the same stuff, but each has their strengths and weaknesses.
The Pioneer is cheapest at $130, then the Onkyo at $250, then the Denon at $370. Truthfully the Denon is getting almost out of my price range, but if it worth it, I will seriously look into it.
I think that the Denon is the only one with an HDMI output, but since I don't currently have a TV that would work with this, I wouldn't be able to use it. Also my TV probably cannot use the Progressive Scan output on any of these, since I don't have component video inputs on it. Maybe someday. Is that even something I should consider? I have read that the component video output is as good as or better than the HDMI output... Of course once Blu-Ray and HD-DVD come around, apparently they won't be able to output as high of a resolution over the component as the HDMI, so I may just forgo those completely, I cannot say I am very impressed with it so far, just by the descriptions. I haven't seen it yet. Though, for computer backup, that may be really nice!
So now comes your part. What have I missed? Out of your experiences, which one would work better, for longer, with fewer problems and quirks. Thanks for your patience with the long post!

-capT
 
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TheLaw

TheLaw

Junior Audioholic
Hey Cap T,

I have the Onkyo SP502 and love it. I have not compared it to the pioneer as far as hardware goes, but I can tell you it is a great unit. The picture quality is great thanks to 12 bit 108Mhz DAC's and the nicest feature for me is the fact that I am unable to notice layer changes when watching a movie. It supports all the formats you want, and some that you might not use. The Denon is the only one with HDMI out and it is also an upconverting player, taking 530i or 480p images and upconverting them to near HD quality. I have read mixed reviews about this technology but have never actually seen anything played on it. It also has a 2 MB memory buffer to make layer changes quicker. Personally I would not buy an upconverting unit, but rather wait until the HD DVD and BLURAY battle gets sorted out and the HD players come down in price. Hope that helps.
 
captain_tinker

captain_tinker

Audioholic
Thanks TheLaw, I was able to get out tonight to the local Good Guys store, and listen to the Denon 1920. It sure sounded nice. I had them play an SACD for me since I hadn't heard one before. It was neat the way Elton John's Candle in the Wind sounded in surround. But then I got to thinking, I probably won't be getting enough speakers anytime soon to make a surround sound effect possible. Nor do I own any SACD's or DVD-A's. So perhaps I should look for something that does not neccessarily play them. Hopefully something cheaper. I thought about the Denon 1720 for $150. I saw that it has a 10 bit 108Mhz Video DAC as opposed to the 12 bit one that you mentioned that the Onkyo had. My question is, will the 10 bit DAC be noticeably less quality than the 12 bit one? My old Toshiba SD-1600 had a 10 bit 27 Mhz DAC, and it was a reasonable picture, but it would not play everything I wanted it to play, so I got the RCA DRC212N instead. However I cannot find anything on what kind of DAC it has, so maybe it was ashamed of it's specs, and didn't publish it. I wish I knew then what I know now.

-capT
 
R

ruadmaa

Banned
DVD Player Digital Outputs

captain_tinker said:
Thanks TheLaw, I was able to get out tonight to the local Good Guys store, and listen to the Denon 1920. It sure sounded nice. I had them play an SACD for me since I hadn't heard one before. It was neat the way Elton John's Candle in the Wind sounded in surround. But then I got to thinking, I probably won't be getting enough speakers anytime soon to make a surround sound effect possible. Nor do I own any SACD's or DVD-A's. So perhaps I should look for something that does not neccessarily play them. Hopefully something cheaper. I thought about the Denon 1720 for $150. I saw that it has a 10 bit 108Mhz Video DAC as opposed to the 12 bit one that you mentioned that the Onkyo had. My question is, will the 10 bit DAC be noticeably less quality than the 12 bit one? My old Toshiba SD-1600 had a 10 bit 27 Mhz DAC, and it was a reasonable picture, but it would not play everything I wanted it to play, so I got the RCA DRC212N instead. However I cannot find anything on what kind of DAC it has, so maybe it was ashamed of it's specs, and didn't publish it. I wish I knew then what I know now.

-capT
If you are using the digital out terminals on your DVD player, the difference in audio quality is extremely small between players. If there is an audiable difference, it would take a really high end system to be able to discern any difference whatsoever.
 
TheLaw

TheLaw

Junior Audioholic
captain_tinker said:
Thanks TheLaw, I was able to get out tonight to the local Good Guys store, and listen to the Denon 1920. It sure sounded nice. I had them play an SACD for me since I hadn't heard one before. It was neat the way Elton John's Candle in the Wind sounded in surround. But then I got to thinking, I probably won't be getting enough speakers anytime soon to make a surround sound effect possible. Nor do I own any SACD's or DVD-A's. So perhaps I should look for something that does not neccessarily play them. Hopefully something cheaper. I thought about the Denon 1720 for $150. I saw that it has a 10 bit 108Mhz Video DAC as opposed to the 12 bit one that you mentioned that the Onkyo had. My question is, will the 10 bit DAC be noticeably less quality than the 12 bit one? My old Toshiba SD-1600 had a 10 bit 27 Mhz DAC, and it was a reasonable picture, but it would not play everything I wanted it to play, so I got the RCA DRC212N instead. However I cannot find anything on what kind of DAC it has, so maybe it was ashamed of it's specs, and didn't publish it. I wish I knew then what I know now.

-capT
Hey Cap,

I doubt the 10 bit will be extremely noticeable from the 12 bit DAC's in my Onkyo. Compared side to side there are noticeable differences, but they are relatively small and only seen when compared side by side. My older Samsung DVD player is 10 bit. Plus you get to save $150. That could be used to upgrade another component in your system. :)
 
captain_tinker

captain_tinker

Audioholic
TheLaw said:
Hey Cap,

I doubt the 10 bit will be extremely noticeable from the 12 bit DAC's in my Onkyo. Compared side to side there are noticeable differences, but they are relatively small and only seen when compared side by side. My older Samsung DVD player is 10 bit. Plus you get to save $150. That could be used to upgrade another component in your system. :)
I like the way you think! :D I could always use more components... Maybe a tape deck, then I can listen to all those tapes I had as a kid that are just sitting in a box somewhere now. Anyway.... Well, I guess that gives me something to think about. It will probably be a few more weeks until I actually go and pull the trigger on this stuff, I have a few more things I want to research, and I am also waiting for my new entertainment center to arrive, and that is still a few weeks off. I still need to go and compare some speakers. I heard some Paradigm Titans a while back that sounded very nice. I also listened to some Monitor Audio reference towers the other night. The salesman at Goodguys was trying to sell them to me. They were ok, but IMO they were kind of weak for the price actually. Maybe he just didn't have them set up right?
Anyway, does anyone have a good suggestion on some good bookshelf speakers to work with the Marantz SR-5600 that I am thinking of getting? I will probably only be getting the front right and left ones to begin with and then add speakers for surround and a sub as I save up some $$$.
 
M

MBauer

Audioholic
My $0.02 worth

Cap, HT is about to undergo some real changes, what with Blu-Ray, HDDVD, higher rez images, etc. Now, currrently these are probably out of your price range, no problem, prices have a way of falling, especially in electronics, and incomes have a way of rising if you are young and getting started. So hopefully your risiing income curve will intersect nicely in the near future with falling prices and allow you to get the system you want at a price you can afford.

My advice, buy a really cheap DVD player. If the cheapest player on your list hits all your requirements, thats the one. Will it be the best one? No, but a TV with an s-video input won't display the best ones image any better than the better ones. There are extreme limitations with s-video and while it is better than composite, it will not utilize many of the features of your DVD player.

Lets say that you spend a lot on a DVD player > $300 and it forces you to spend less on speakers, net loss right there. If you think, well I will get a good DVD player and later get good speakers, go back to the top of this post and think about all the changes coming in DVD players and even the DVD standard.

Spend wisely now and have the money later. You will also show the wife you are a wise frugal spender. When she realizes that, and also sees all the enjoyment you both get from your wise decisions (the family photos will turn the corner, try a everchanging display of family pics during a family social event or holiday) you will be prepared.

One more bit of advice, try eBay. Take advantage of some early adopters purchase of something brand new, that for them is now obsolete, but for most is primetime.
 
kay

kay

Audioholic
I have the Pioneer DV-585A which is the Euro version of the 588. I love it, I bought it over a more expensive Denon 1920 because I decided to hold out till the whole high-dev future format mess sorts itself out. So far I've been very impressed, using a digital link to my Denon receiver for CD and DVD playback, analogue output from SACD and DVD-A sounds brilliant too. I can only second the advice MBauer gave you - buy something cheap that will last you at least a year or so, then re-look at it when HD material becomes more commonplace.
 
captain_tinker

captain_tinker

Audioholic
I sure do appreciate everyone's input. I am beginning to agree with you on getting something inexpensive for now, since there really are some big changes in HT on the horizon. I am interested to see what happens with it.
Anyway, even if I went with something cheaper, it's still going to be way better than what I have already. I will think about it, and when I pull the trigger, I will report back. Thanks again everyone!
 
KC23

KC23

Audioholic
I'd go cheap now too. Samsung seems to be first in HD DVD pool and they are coming out with their unit this Spring. It's $1000, but others are soon to follow with better price points no doubt.
 
captain_tinker

captain_tinker

Audioholic
The Choice has been made...

Today I auditioned the final two DVD players that I had decided to choose between. I first checked out the Denon 1720, and I liked it a lot. It was very nice, and sounded great attached to the Marantz DV-5600. I then went to another store, and popped some things into the Pioneer 588a, and I was even more impressed. It was also attached to the Marantz 5600. I finally decided after some serious reflection and listening, that I would go with the Pioneer 588a. The price was actually the same, since the Denon was on sale, but I just liked the Pioneer better. The only thing about it I don't like, is I wish it were a black face. But at this point, owell. I liked it so much for what it could do and how it sounded that I figured I would be happy with it for a long time. That, and because it is cheaper than the other ones I was originally looking at, that I could save my money, and get a nice center channel speaker to go with my front right and left! :D My wife even agreed that it was a good purchase, so that makes it a VERY good day. ;)

-capT
 
jaxvon

jaxvon

Audioholic Ninja
I have the predacessor, the DV-578AS, and I'm very impressed with it. I could only ask for better bass management, like a movable crossover.
 
F

fredejo

Junior Audioholic
i have the denon avr 3805 w/ the dvd1920, great match up, more expensive, but very clear. go yamaha, way cheaper!
 
W

westcott

Audioholic General
Denon and Panasonic really do a better job of building DVD players. Panny does it for cheaper.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-bin/shootout.cgi?function=search&articles=all

10 bit and 12 color depth processing can be important, depending on the display. If it is a digital display, the extra bit depth can alleviate contouring artifacts associated with some new digital displays.

HDMI insures HDCP compliance but you can find DVI with HDCP. You just have to make sure before buying.:cool:
 
TheLaw

TheLaw

Junior Audioholic
Glad you finally found one you liked Cap. Congrats... and enjoy. Now you just have to figure out what kind of speakers you want:D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
ruadmaa said:
If you are using the digital out terminals on your DVD player, the difference in audio quality is extremely small between players. If there is an audiable difference, it would take a really high end system to be able to discern any difference whatsoever.

Not sure how even that would be possible?
 
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M

mfabien

Senior Audioholic
I find my 5 disc changer DVD player kind of nice to have for Concert DVDs. It memorizes the resume position for up to 6 DVDs and can therefore change disc and immediately playback where I want it to start and with the audio setup already selected.
 
captain_tinker

captain_tinker

Audioholic
TheLaw said:
Glad you finally found one you liked Cap. Congrats... and enjoy. Now you just have to figure out what kind of speakers you want:D
I really do like it so far. I went and picked it up yesterday, hooked it up and tried it out. I haven't thrown a lot at it yet though, but so far so good. Anyway, as for speakers, I auditioned several ones this past Saturday at a couple of different stores. The ones I was most impressed with were the Paradigm Titans. I had heard them before, but I wanted to compare them to some other brands, and price ranges. I really liked what I heard, so I believe I will go with those. I did listen to the Mini Monitor, and the Monitor Audio Bronze series, and some Radius towers, don't remember the model... and some other larger Monitor Audio towers that were like $3000 a pair, and I actually preferred the sound of the Titans over them. Of course, it may have been how the room was set up, or how the speakers were set up etc, but I know what I heard. They were just clear and bright. They didn't blink at all when cranking up Boston's Third Stage, or one of Telarc's Sampler cd's. Actually, it was funny when I pulled out Boston, the salesman laughed, and told me that he blew out his first receiver as a kid cranking up The Launch. Those two sudden loud notes just blew it out. So he's like let's see what this thing can do, popped it in, cranked up the Marantz receiver I was looking at, and it didn't even blink. That was so cool! I wonder how it would fare with Telarc's SACD rendition of the 1812 Overture? I'd love to hear that!
Anyway, I will probably also get a CC-270 for a center speaker but I will have to wait for rear surrounds, and a sub for now, but they will come eventually.

-capT
 
P

philh

Full Audioholic
I went super cheap. As long as it had component video and digital audio out. Can't tell the difference between my Sony (which had problems playing backup DVD's) and the super cheap Polaroid and subsequent super cheap ??? (can't remember the brand). I have the Sony on E-Bay right now and it's at a whopping $9.99 :)
 
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