Where to buy 10 Ga speaker Cable and advice on setting up RBH SX-T1/R

Gmoney

Gmoney

Full Audioholic
what about Bananas nobody mentioned bananas?
Gotta have some uhu? To Banana or not to banana
what say you guys? Bananas get you better sound? or just as good as Straight wire into the connectors
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Jealous! Congrats on the new speakers Kurt!
Thanks, but that was August of 2018!
They are pretty nice speakers, but for the money, I just enjoy other tweeters more than these soft domes. I'm sure these will take more power and have tons of clean output, but I would never make use of that!
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
Thanks, but that was August of 2018!
They are pretty nice speakers, but for the money, I just enjoy other tweeters more than these soft domes. I'm sure these will take more power and have tons of clean output, but I would never make use of that!
I must have been busy or high when I responded in this thread earlier but I don't recall knowing you got those speakers. Maybe I just responded knowing only the title query but dang, bro. That's a ton of ching be enjoying other tweeters more.

Having heard me some Sig 8s in the past ... and the Beolab 5s, I can say that hearing all that clean output for even short bursts is an awesome experience. When the POW POW seems to be coming from inside you because your inside it ... man, you just have to keep turning the volume knob up until you're there. At least do it for guests. Chances are it will be the rockinest thing they're ever gonna hear.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
I will be receiving these speakers around the end of the week and want to do what I can to be ready for them!
Basically, this is the upper half of the SX-T2 (link to AH review below) with the upgrade to the reference drivers.
Audioholics review of RBH SX-T2

In this review, in the section addressing impedance and phase plots Gene says:


The above SX-T2 is the proper physical configuration, but the T-30LSE reviewed below gives uses the exact drivers of the SX-T1/R ("/R" = Reference drivers). The drivers are laid out in the same arrangement, however this speakers combines the upper and lower module into a single cabinet.

Audioholics review of RBH T-30LSE



I'd appreciate any comments, but here are my specific questions:
1) Source for 10 GA speaker wire. I am not interested in paying more for pretty, however, I do place a value on cables that are not stiff. So a simple, but pliable 10 GA speaker cable is what I am after.
2) I'm not sure what "an amplifier with a lowish output impedance" is! Does that mean an amplifier capable of lowish output impedance or something else?
3) Ideally, I would like to use a Niles SI-2150 (specifications listed under "Product Highlights" in Crutchfield link below). Any concerns here?

Niles SI-2150 specs via Crutchfield

4) IIRC, these weigh in just under 100 pounds. Any recommendations on speaker stands?
Thanks for your help!
Why do you think you need 10 gauge? At 4 Ohms, 270W is about 8.2 Amperes and it's not power wire, the voltage and current are dynamic.
 
Trell

Trell

Senior Audioholic
Why do you think you need 10 gauge? At 4 Ohms, 270W is about 8.2 Amperes and it's not power wire, the voltage and current are dynamic.
He is into listening to all-channels square wave signals and he want to be on the safe side.
 
S

Speedskater

Senior Audioholic
So the loudspeakers have:
While these speakers represent a relatively benign phase shift of +12 to -30 degrees across the entire audio band, the dip of 3 ohms centered around 90Hz and 2.5 ohms above 6kHz
The "2.5 ohms above 6kHz" requires a low loop inductance. A 4 conductor 12 or 14AWG cable wired in a Star Quad arrangement would be good.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Why do you think you need 10 gauge? At 4 Ohms, 270W is about 8.2 Amperes and it's not power wire, the voltage and current are dynamic.
I have no idea!
It was Gene's review where he said:
Based on the low impedance profile of the T-1 at high frequencies, I recommend using low resistance cables (10AWG or less) to minimize potential frequency variations.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
So the loudspeakers have:
While these speakers represent a relatively benign phase shift of +12 to -30 degrees across the entire audio band, the dip of 3 ohms centered around 90Hz and 2.5 ohms above 6kHz
The "2.5 ohms above 6kHz" requires a low loop inductance. A 4 conductor 12 or 14AWG cable wired in a Star Quad arrangement would be good.
That just seems like bad design- I would like to know their justification for designing a speaker system that can only be driven by amps that can handle such loads and needing such heavy speaker cable.
 
S

Speedskater

Senior Audioholic
That just seems like bad design- I would like to know their justification for designing a speaker system that can only be driven by amps that can handle such loads and needing such heavy speaker cable.
Unfortunately some very nice loudspeakers place extreme demands on amplifiers. As for the cables, just place the amps directly behind the speakers and use very short speaker cables and long interconnects.
 
Pogre

Pogre

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks, but that was August of 2018!
They are pretty nice speakers, but for the money, I just enjoy other tweeters more than these soft domes. I'm sure these will take more power and have tons of clean output, but I would never make use of that!
So you still have these? I've actually looked at them before (wistfully) and I think I'd love them! Do you have them in play at all or moved on?
 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
So you still have these? I've actually looked at them before (wistfully) and I think I'd love them! Do you have them in play at all or moved on?
I've known Kurt a long while and am just now starting to see that he's like a closet ADTG when ADTG was still ADTG if you know what I mean. Now ADTG is really RBH Guy. ;)
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
Maybe I just responded knowing only the title query but dang, bro. That's a ton of ching be enjoying other tweeters more.
Fortunately, these were being clearanced at a deep discount and ADTG gave me a good price on the upgrade to the reference drivers! I would not have been willing to gamble on them had I had to pay MSRP. I already had the RBH RB61lse (same drivers, but only one each) which I knew to be a bit deficient in the treble, but also knew to have very nice midrange detail. I also had determined with the RB61lse that I could add something like .5dB at 8kHz and 1.5dB at 16kHz which would give them the top end that was missing (as long as I did not get other speakers with a RAAL, Be or Ceramic tweeter in the same room). I really wanted to experience the multiple drivers to see what that added (see below)

Having heard me some Sig 8s in the past ... and the Beolab 5s, I can say that hearing all that clean output for even short bursts is an awesome experience. When the POW POW seems to be coming from inside you because your inside it ... man, you just have to keep turning the volume knob up until you're there. At least do it for guests. Chances are it will be perceived as the rockinest thing they're ever gonna hear.
I fixed your last sentence (bold italic)! Because of my perverse sensibilities, I decided to compare it to the Canton Vento which is about the size of a Pioneer BS-22. As I expected, the ceramic tweeter on the Canton did its thing, but man, the way the T1/R would envelop me in sound with is massive soundstage was pretty compelling! I decided to have Alex (TheWarrior) come over and do a blind comparison. He quickly determined that the Cantons had better sound. Before the reveal, I asked him if he had any sense of difference of scale between the speakers and his response was "absolutely not"! My jaw dropped!
After he left, I just closed my eyes and started switching back and forth, and realized he was right! So, even if I have AB level matched instant switching, just seeing the visual mass with all of those drivers was enough to influence my bias. It was interesting how much simply closing my eyes made a difference! I guess you would call this "expectation bias" because how could those seven drivers per speaker not deliver a compellingly enveloping sound?
These speakers are a real education for me in how susceptible we (or, at least, I) are to being influenced by visual perception!
That said, your comment is pertinent and I am not sure I ever really opened them up on an action flick, which is a worthy test. I know there has to be a level where something like the tiny Cantons would just say "I'm out" and the T1/R's would still have plenty left to give!!! For the levels I listen to music, I haven't seen it!
But to your comment above, anyone walking into my home when these speakers were set up had no doubt as to how serious I am about audio! They definitely make a statement that way.
So you still have these? I've actually looked at them before (wistfully) and I think I'd love them! Do you have them in play at all or moved on?
Not currently in play. I should probably go ahead and sell them. I should reserve judgement on really opening them up and rocking out with them, but at lower levels, I feel like the comparison TheWarrior did of the Ultras vs the RBH RB61lse in his bookshelf shootout is pretty valid!
A perverse reality of my life is my LR sees a constant rotation of speakers, and even though I have some very, very good speakers, I don't really listen to them very often! Most recently (maybe for the last two months) I have had the ($225/pr) DCM TFE100's setup in there, but I can't complain, they are very enjoyable speakers! However, I really need to get rid of some of the speakers I have to make more room if I am going to continue to make "experiencing speakers" a hobby!
 
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Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
I decided to have Alex (TheWarrior) come over and do a blind comparison.
If I had been at the volume control he would be deaf too.
I am not sure I ever really opened them up on an action flick, which is a worthy test.
Movies and music couldn't be any more different for me. I know it's all sound but music makes language stop being a thing. It's like the difference between erotic and kinky. Erotic is when you use a feather. Kinky is when you use the whole f^%&in' chicken.

Those RBHs would make that feather hit like a sledge hammer. Not everybody is into that, I know, but I live for it ... and not with some lily livered, Minnie Riperton, Loving You sorority house affair. Money for Nothing works on the intro. I'm looking forward to doing something like that again one day with R.E.M.'s I Don't Sleep, I Dream for the drums at the beginning and the vocals throughout.

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Remember, I was there when Walter tripped his circuit breaker torturing the Catskills. That was brutal. I drove a friend's mid level H/K rec'r into protection mode driving old school Infinity RS4b speakers. Your Aragon ought to handle the difficult load presented by the RBHs. It might not be your thing but I wouldn't let those towers go without letting them stretch their legs.
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Those RBHs would make that feather hit like a sledge hammer.
No, they wouldn't. Perfect example of bias, big speaker = big sound. Can it play louder? Of course. But at any SPL, those tweeters do not accurately reproduce higher frequencies. They're wonderful to the ears, but again, accuracy should always be the goal, otherwise, what's the point?

That is not to say the T1/R sounds bad, but it is seriously disappointing that all those drivers do not make the T1 full range, nor does quantity negate the limitations of the drivers used.

Protect your hearing, fellow Alex!
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
No, they wouldn't. Perfect example of bias, big speaker = big sound. Can it play louder? Of course. But at any SPL, those tweeters do not accurately reproduce higher frequencies. They're wonderful to the ears, but again, accuracy should always be the goal, otherwise, what's the point?

That is not to say the T1/R sounds bad, but it is seriously disappointing that all those drivers do not make the T1 full range, nor does quantity negate the limitations of the drivers used.
Yeah, you've got to figure there is a reason RBH changed to ribbons (and Be for their upscale Status Acoustics line) for their current TOTL speakers.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Overlord
I also had determined with the RB61lse that I could add something like .5dB at 8kHz and 1.5dB at 16kHz which would give them the top end that was missing (as long as I did not get other speakers with a RAAL, Be or Ceramic tweeter in the same room). I really wanted to experience the multiple drivers to see what that added (see below)
You want to add .5dB, when 1dB is the generally accepted minimum change that's audible, or is this from the perspective of measuring equipment? .5dB change at any frequency will be unnoticeable.

The link shows average hearing ability in age groups, by decade for males and females-

 
Alex2507

Alex2507

Audioholic Slumlord
No, they wouldn't. Perfect example of bias, big speaker = big sound. Can it play louder? Of course. But at any SPL, those tweeters do not accurately reproduce higher frequencies. They're wonderful to the ears, but again, accuracy should always be the goal, otherwise, what's the point?

That is not to say the T1/R sounds bad, but it is seriously disappointing that all those drivers do not make the T1 full range, nor does quantity negate the limitations of the drivers used.

Protect your hearing, fellow Alex!
Other Alex,

Playing louder is the point! Not for hours on end but just long enough to rattle your cage, minutes at a clip, to impress friends, to irritate your girlfriend etc.

I thought the bottom section was dual subs going down to 20 Hz +/- not much. How is that not full range?

I know Kurt had a thing for rec'r amps only and I'm not sure he ever had what Seedskater called low inductance loop speaker wires so their top end may very easily have been handicapped. That's not the point anyway. You guys took a Lamborghini out and didn't floor it. I am very disappointed in both of you.

I feel like John the Baptist preaching repentance for the remission of sins. The speakers are there. The amp is there. Thou shalt crank that sh!t UP !!!

This is the way. :D
 
TheWarrior

TheWarrior

Audioholic Ninja
Other Alex,

Playing louder is the point! Not for hours on end but just long enough to rattle your cage, minutes at a clip, to impress friends, to irritate your girlfriend etc.

I thought the bottom section was dual subs going down to 20 Hz +/- not much. How is that not full range?

I know Kurt had a thing for rec'r amps only and I'm not sure he ever had what Seedskater called low inductance loop speaker wires so their top end may very easily have been handicapped. That's not the point anyway. You guys took a Lamborghini out and didn't floor it. I am very disappointed in both of you.

I feel like John the Baptist preaching repentance for the remission of sins. The speakers are there. The amp is there. Thou shalt crank that sh!t UP !!!

This is the way. :D
The T1 comprises tweeters and mids, adding the 1010 bass cabinet makes the system a T2. Likewise you can make the whole thing a 10 ft tall monolith with dual bass cabs in a T3.

Personally, I liked T3, but it seems the franchise went to sh!t after.... but I digress.

Considering the results of our blind test, I think I would have more enjoyed blasting the Vento. But that’s why I said I was disappointed, the T1 is just an enormous bookshelf speaker whose tweeters were top of the line, a couple decades ago. I really do enjoy listening to it’s Revelators, like 61LSE, they are a real treat for the ears. But when comparing for absolute fidelity, they just cannot compete with top modern tweeters. I guess I am arguing that RBH delayed their redesign a bit too long, especially after using beryllium a decade ago, now, in Status Acoustics.
 
KEW

KEW

Audioholic Overlord
You guys took a Lamborghini out and didn't floor it. I am very disappointed in both of you.
The level of shame I am feeling is palpable!
I will have to pull out my Brother in Arms disc, I do remember that is a good one to crank!
But you have to cut us some slack, your having listened with Walter had to be a total game changer!
He seems like a guy who only believes in limits in the context of breaking them!

What was in his signature phrase for so long?

"Every amp, when begging for mercy, has its own, unique shriek of agony."
 
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