What You Look for in Equipment(Performance/Style/Mystique)

[highfigh]

So, at least as I read this, you are suggesting that if there are indeed audible differences between two things we'll just never know. . . because it is fundamentally un-testable in what you deem a fair and uncompromised manner.

Not what I meant at all- I wrote about minute differences- probably measureable.

 

[m. zillch]

As far as 'faithfully reproducing the master tape", there's only one way to hear it the way they did in the mastering room and that's to have an identical room, identical equipment and climate- even air pressure & humidity affect hearing and if they were working long hours or without resting their ears, the sonic overload took its toll.

If your notion that room humidity and air pressure alter our perception of sound is true then I am afraid we'll just never be able to reproduce musical recordings and "hear it the way they did in the mastering room" (to quote your words) faithfully, regardless of how much money we throw at the problem, since I am unaware of any commercial release which denotes the humidity and air pressure of the control room used where they made their various mixing and mastering decisions, so we can't replicate those conditions in our playback rooms.

Oh well, this was a fun hobby while it lasted. Bye all. See you at our next hobby's forum!

Also on a more serious note, I never wrote my goal was to "hear it the way they did". My goal, again, is to buy distribution mediums/electronics/wires that faithfully reproduce their input signal, hence my best shot at also correctly hearing (or at least getting closer to) the master tape (when played on a theoretically perfect tape playback machine). How they happened to mangle that sound in the studio before it reached their ears by their use of junky little monitors, poorly placed, in a rotten control room, while they were inebriated, with a certain humidity and air pressure, etc., is all downstream stuff unrelated to what I seek.

Additionally I never claimed my playback environment (including speakers and room acoustics) was perfect so there's lots of sound mangling on my end too. I disagree with the common notion however that since there are so many stages of sound adulteration on their end and our end that we should instead just give up and accept that everything is flawed hence we should mix and match flaws until we get a balance of them we personally find pleasing. Example of this sort of reasoning I personally disagree with: "I bought these speakers because their particular sound synergistically works well with the sound of my particular tube amp" [paraphrased]

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If your notion that room humidity and air pressure alter our perception of sound is true then I am afraid we'll just never be able to reproduce musical recordings "as they heard it" faithfully, regardless of how much money we throw at the problem, since I am unaware of any commercial release which denotes the humidity and air pressure of the control room used where they made their various mixing and mastering decisions, so we can't replicate those conditions in our playback rooms.

Oh well, this was a fun hobby while it lasted. Bye all. See you at our next hobby's forum!

Also on a more serious note, I never wrote my goal was to "hear it the way they did". My goal, again, is to buy distribution mediums/electronics/wires that faithfully reproduce the master tape (played on a theoretically perfect tape playback machine). How they happened to mangle that sound before it reached their ears by their use of junky little monitors, poorly placed, in a rotten control room, while they were inebriated, with a certain humidity and air pressure is all downstream stuff unrelated to what I seek.

Additionally I never claimed my playback environment (including speakers and room acoustics) was perfect so there's lots of sound mangling on my end too. I disagree with the common notion however that since there are so many stages of sound adulteration on their end and our end that we should instead just accept that everything is flawed hence we should mix and match flaws until we get a balance we find pleasing. Example of this sort of reasoning I personally disagree with: "I bought these speakers because their particular sound synergistically works well with the sound of my particular tube amp" [paraphrased]

We’re just giving you a hard time.

We knew what you meant.

It’s the Performance- highest fidelity, purist signal, we get it. It’s what we all want.

Just giving you a hard time.

 

[m. zillch]

Everyone wants a transparent signal and faithful sound reproduction.

It’s the Performance- highest fidelity, purist signal, we get it. It’s what we all want.

"Everyone"?
". . .we all"?
You must not read the same forums I do. I encounter tons of people expressing that they want their amp to have a particular sound to it rather than being 100% neutral/transparent. There's no rule they have to seek what you and I seek.

A common example of an amp sound they say they shoot for is "warmth". (not that I'm confident they even know what the word truly means but it's trendy to say this in their circles I guess).

 

[highfigh]

If your notion that room humidity and air pressure alter our perception of sound is true then I am afraid we'll just never be able to reproduce musical recordings "as they heard it" faithfully, regardless of how much money we throw at the problem, since I am unaware of any commercial release which denotes the humidity and air pressure of the control room used where they made their various mixing and mastering decisions, so we can't replicate those conditions in our playback rooms.

Oh well, this was a fun hobby while it lasted. Bye all. See you at our next hobby's forum!

Also on a more serious note, I never wrote my goal was to "hear it the way they did". My goal, again, is to buy distribution mediums/electronics/wires that faithfully reproduce their input signal, hence my best shot at also correctly hearing the master tape (when played on a theoretically perfect tape playback machine). How they happened to mangle that sound in the studio before it reached their ears by their use of junky little monitors, poorly placed, in a rotten control room, while they were inebriated, with a certain humidity and air pressure, etc., is all downstream stuff unrelated to what I seek.

Additionally I never claimed my playback environment (including speakers and room acoustics) was perfect so there's lots of sound mangling on my end too. I disagree with the common notion however that since there are so many stages of sound adulteration on their end and our end that we should instead just give up and accept that everything is flawed hence we should mix and match flaws until we get a balance of them we personally find pleasing. Example of this sort of reasoning I personally disagree with: "I bought these speakers because their particular sound synergistically works well with the sound of my particular tube amp" [paraphrased]

Never thought you wanted to hear it the way they did, but your description of the recording process has some misconceptions, IMO.

Bottom line, if you find equipment that you like, you win. Some doesn't sound great, much of it doesn't match the ads or dealer/user hype.

I admit that after 50 years of selling/installing audio eqiupment, I have heard lies from manufacturers and dealers, questions and comments that required clearing up some of the misconceptions and resistance to the truth. I'm what could be called an 'absolutist', in the sense that I don't think anything is perfect, but not to the extent that searching for excellence is pointless- there's definitely a point to that and it doesn't always need to cost an arm & a leg. I'm more impressed by equipment that sounds great at a lower cost- anyone can sell something and make wild claims, it's harder to back them up with real performance.

I have real problems with dealers of parts and equipment that claims to do things that are literally impossible- cables, cable stands, gigantic power cords and the stuff like what's in the link- check out the original price and then, consider that the ads from the company showed the inside of the box, which is empty. It's an Aluminum box with outlets and an IEC power inlet, because they didn't want to make the power cord decision for the customers.

Weizhi Precision PRS-6 Power Distributor/Conditioner

Acquired this piece for a second system which will not materialize at this time. An absolute reference-level power unit by any standard. Top-shelf components and design - all purely passive. Many favorable reviews in PF, Dagogo, etc. The review opinions proved accurate for me as well - truly...

www.usaudiomart.com

 

[m. zillch]

The musicians and their recording engineers worked as a team and painstakingly prepared that 2ch tape after listening to it dozens if not hundreds of versions using different mics, mic placement, different takes, EQ, reverb, effects, mixing, mastering, etc. and they apply their stamp of approval and signature to the final product: the 2ch master tape [these days often a hard drive actually]. They are the artists so they get to decide how to make the "painting" and what hues to use, not me, but in the end they finalized on one version and "signed their name to it".

If anyone possibly read this and took it to mean I was implying they share responsibility for the final sound equally, you are mistaken.

A common notion is that people in my camp supposedly strive for sound "as the artist intended". At least for me that's not entirely accurate. I agree the actual musicians, if that's what they mean by "artists", only play a small and sometimes even inconsequential role.

 

[Teetertotter?]

When looking or needing to buy something new today, it is the mfg reputation, no bells and whistles, repair history/reliability, and other reviews. I am always looking for the SALE...too.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

If anyone possibly read this and took it to mean I was implying they share responsibility for the final sound equally, you are mistaken.

A common notion is that people in my camp supposedly strive for sound "as the artist intended". At least for me that's not entirely accurate. I agree the actual musicians, if that's what they mean by "artists", only play a small and sometimes even inconsequential role.

I think we need to define the word "Performance".

To me, "performance" means having awesome measurements like FR, THD+N, Power output, etc., which means that the sound will be high-fidelity, pure, and "as the artist intended".

 

[Kingnoob]

That's my #1. I swear to Christ I'm in the wrong tax bracket for this hobby.

I should have gotten into bird watching or rock collecting.

I gotta buy cheap stuff Because cannot afford anything good. And prices keep rising.