What sub indeed

[William Lemmerhirt]

And is that 4db worth it for double the price if I was to go ported? If not my choice would be probably between the sealed f18 or the ported vft15 just do to the price difference if I were to go that high in price I would want sealed do to if it port chuffs I won't be as happy than if the Hsu port chuffs I won't mind as much because I didint pay as much, and I've even heard SVS pb16s port chuff

Keep in mind that the 4db difference is in the range that they’re similar. Like 30 and above. Below 30hz all the powered subs will have much more output. For example the fv18 and fv15hp will have 8-10db more output at 20hz than the f18 will. I’m sure the MK2 will be very similar.
My hunch is that if your anywhere near 112db in the low 20hz range, you’re not likely to hear anything other than the rest of your house rattling apart and the rest of the soundtrack. Curious as well, have you experienced lot of chuffing in the past?
And shady is right about sealed too. If you’re gonna run a sealed sub that hard to equal the output, it’s going be doing it with considerable distortion, and heat.

 

[Pogre]

Port chuffing has never been an issue for me. Well, until I play a 10 hz tone or something. How much material do you know of with a 10 hz tone?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Port chuffing has never been an issue for me. Well, until I play a 10 hz tone or something. How much material do you know of with a 10 hz tone?

Well you might be surprised. But unless he’s running 15db hot on LFE channel, I can’t imagine it being a real problem. In that case, add more subs!!!!!
I feel like four MK2’s would be worthy!

 

[Hunter21]

Keep in mind that the 4db difference is in the range that they’re similar. Like 30 and above. Below 30hz all the powered subs will have much more output. For example the fv18 and fv15hp will have 8-10db more output at 20hz than the f18 will. I’m sure the MK2 will be very similar.
My hunch is that if your anywhere near 112db in the low 20hz range, you’re not likely to hear anything other than the rest of your house rattling apart and the rest of the soundtrack. Curious as well, have you experienced lot of chuffing in the past?
And shady is right about sealed too. If you’re gonna run a sealed sub that hard to equal the output, it’s going be doing it with considerable distortion, and heat.

I've had klipsch subs so it to me and the pb-16

 

[Trell]

A 4 dB increase is not much louder. It takes 9-10 dB for doubling the volume, about 10 times the amp power output.

The increase in perceived volume (loudness) depends on the frequency, and for sub woofers a 4 dB increase is indeed quite audible.

The Decibel (dB) Scale & Audio Rules 101

This article discusses the relationship between the decibel(dB) for audio devices that produce sound and how we perceive loudness. Basic audio rules are given to relating to the decibel.

www.audioholics.com

 

[Mr._Clark]

Port chuffing has never been an issue for me. Well, until I play a 10 hz tone or something. How much material do you know of with a 10 hz tone?

Same here. Never noticed chuffing.

Of course, it may be that the chuffing was drowned out by the house rattling, the car alarm going off, the dog freaking out, my wife screaming at me, etc. (That's mostly tongue in cheek, but our dog does sort of freak out when everything starts to rattle)

 

[Verdinut]

The increase in perceived volume (loudness) depends on the frequency, and for sub woofers a 4 dB increase is indeed quite audible.

The Decibel (dB) Scale & Audio Rules 101

This article discusses the relationship between the decibel(dB) for audio devices that produce sound and how we perceive loudness. Basic audio rules are given to relating to the decibel.

www.audioholics.com

I don't know where they got their info from. Just have a look a the following links. Nowhere they talk about difference of loudness perception with low frequencies:

Loudness volume doubling sound level change factor of perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities formula calculate power level noise levels volume logarithm dependence three four fold loudness sound - by what factor does level decrease dependence comparison decibel levels 3 dBSPL 6 dB 10 db double voltage sound pressure audio sound intensity acoustic power formula relationship decibels dB twice as loud two times double distance half level dependence auditory loudness formula sound noise loudness sound pressure intensity a-weighted twice as loud increase decrease SPL - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin

Dependance sound levels change factor perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities calculate power level formula noise volume doubling loudness volume - logarithm decibel 3 dBSPL 6 dB 10 dB double voltage sound pressure acoustic power loudness sound audio formula relationship...

www.sengpielaudio.com

Loudness

hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu

 

[Pogre]

Same here. Never noticed chuffing.

Of course, it may be that the chuffing was drowned out by the house rattling, the car alarm going off, the dog freaking out, my wife screaming at me, etc. (That's mostly tongue in cheek, but our dog does sort of freak out when everything starts to rattle)

EXACTLY! By the time those 15" drivers are moving enough to chuff whatever I'm listening to is drowning it out!

The one time I remember hearing chuffing was that ridiculously low tone at the beginning of Oblivion. It was the only sound being produced and I could feel the air puffing out of the ports from 15 feet away, lol. That's the only time I recall chuff, and that's an extreme example that has been known to destroy subwoofers. It was ridiculous. You could see and count each oscillation of the drivers.

 

[Trell]

I don't know where they got their info from. Just have a look a the following link. Nowhere they talk about difference of loudness perception with low frequencies:

Loudness volume doubling sound level change factor of perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities formula calculate power level noise levels volume logarithm dependence three four fold loudness sound - by what factor does level decrease dependence comparison decibel levels 3 dBSPL 6 dB 10 db double voltage sound pressure audio sound intensity acoustic power formula relationship decibels dB twice as loud two times double distance half level dependence auditory loudness formula sound noise loudness sound pressure intensity a-weighted twice as loud increase decrease SPL - sengpielaudio Sengpiel Berlin

Dependance sound levels change factor perceived loudness decibel scale log compare intensities calculate power level formula noise volume doubling loudness volume - logarithm decibel 3 dBSPL 6 dB 10 dB double voltage sound pressure acoustic power loudness sound audio formula relationship...

www.sengpielaudio.com

Your linked article assumes that perceived loudness is uniform for all frequencies, though the Audioholics article I linked to says that is not so. In the section "A Word on Human Perception of Loudness" you'll find references.

 

[Verdinut]

Your linked article assumes that perceived loudness is uniform for all frequencies, though the Audioholics article I linked to says that is not so. In the section "A Word on Human Perception of Loudness" you'll find references.

We learn something new every day. Thanks for your patience. Post has been deleted.

 

[Hunter21]

I'm so confused now lol. What if I got one fv18 from rythmik and hopefully they have the same model about a year in a half later?

 

[shadyJ]

Your linked article assumes that perceived loudness is uniform for all frequencies, though the Audioholics article I linked to says that is not so. In the section "A Word on Human Perception of Loudness" you'll find references.

A very good discussion on how loudness is perceived. "Loudness" is not a simple thing at all.

 

[shadyJ]

Keep in mind that the 4db difference is in the range that they’re similar. Like 30 and above.

4dB is a lot in subwoofers. That is a doubling of power. Perceptually it is likely also something close to a doubling.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

4dB is a lot in subwoofers. That is a doubling of power. Perceptually it is likely also something close to a doubling.

4dB is a lot in subwoofers. That is a doubling of power. Perceptually it is likely also something close to a doubling.

Well that’s kinda what I was saying above, but verdinut linked something else. I said 3db somewhere above, and I totally agree. 4db is considerable.
I can’t remember now how all that went down earlier in the thread.
I did also try and point out to @Hunter21 that by the time we get to 20hz, pretty much any of the ported subs will have 3-4 times the output, and much less distortion.

 

[Hunter21]

I just did get a message back from rythmik I think I'm going with the one fv18 for now they said they are not going to change that sub for awhile

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I've had klipsch subs do it to me and the pb-16

I can totally understand Klipsch subs chuffing and clanking. And while I have heard of the pb16 doing that, it’s pretty rare. Have you owned one? And what was the material being played?

 

[Hunter21]

I can totally understand Klipsch subs chuffing and clanking. And while I have heard of the pb16 doing that, it’s pretty rare. Have you owned one? And what was the material being played?

Edge of tomorrow lol. Idk the svs didn't hit like I expected, I still preferred my paradigm reference studio sub 12, but unfortunately that sub it's on its last legs, keeps shutting off during heavy bass scenes now

 

[Pogre]

Edge of tomorrow lol. Idk the svs didn't hit like I expected, I still preferred my paradigm reference studio sub 12, but unfortunately that sub it's on its last legs, keeps shutting off during heavy bass scenes now

That ridiculous tone in the beginning? I think that's what I meant in my earlier post, not Oblivion.

You can't ding a sub for chuffing during that! That's ridiculous! I've had my subs for years and that was the only time I heard chuffing! You red line any sub like that and it's going to have issues. You know a sealed sub that size trying to play that same tone at that volume will likely be distorting badly and even bottom out! What other material are you listening to that would even make this an issue?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Edge of tomorrow lol. Idk the svs didn't hit like I expected, I still preferred my paradigm reference studio sub 12, but unfortunately that sub it's on its last legs, keeps shutting off during heavy bass scenes now

Well it’s definitely hard to say why the ultra didn’t hit for you. First guess would be you were sitting in a null. If you used rew or at least the sub crawl or spl meter or something to give you an idea would’ve been helpful. Hard to say too, why you’d prefer the ol paradigm sub. It probably had a bump in FR an the 50-60ish range, and also never came anywhere near trying to play back something like edge of tomorrow. Which by the way has been argued whether or not that was even intentional, and you definitely can’t ding a single subwoofer for freaking out on that pass. How hot were you running it? And what was the MV at?

 

[lovinthehd]

Edge of Tomorrow beginning and ending tones are rough on a lot of subs....and things that sympathetically vibrate in your room