What should I do to upgrade?

[gnorthern]

I have a large great room (5200 cubic feet) and currently own a Marantz SR6013 (110w at 8 ohms), Klipsch RF-82 II speakers, RC-62 II center channel, R-41SA speakers Atmos speakers, THX surround and two ceiling speakers in the back, with a great Paradigm subwoofer. Good, but not great. I want to upgrade the sound without breaking the bank. The options I see are:
1. Stick with Klipsch. My wife won't agree to the Reference RF-7 III for decorative purposes (too tall), and a bit more than I want to spend. Would the RP-8000F II with matching Atmos speakers or the RP-8060FA II be a step up?
2. Get less sensitive speakers. Can my receiver give theatre like sound with 92db sensitivity or lower? I leave the surround sound speakers.

No matter how I cut it, to get the quality of sound I want replacing the receiver would go past the maximum I can spend.

Thank you.

 

[Mikado463]

Good Lord, your great room is more than twice the size of my whole house !

Tell me how anyone with a 5200 sq ft great room has to worry about $$, good luck, you're gonna need it .....

 

[TLS Guy]

I have a large great room (5200 square feet) and currently own a Marantz SR6013 (110w at 8 ohms), Klipsch RF-82 II speakers, RC-62 II center channel, R-41SA speakers Atmos speakers, THX surround and two ceiling speakers in the back, with a great Paradigm subwoofer. Good, but not great. I want to upgrade the sound without breaking the bank. The options I see are:
1. Stick with Klipsch. My wife won't agree to the Reference RF-7 III for decorative purposes (too tall), and a bit more than I want to spend. Would the RP-8000F II with matching Atmos speakers or the RP-8060FA II be a step up?
2. Get less sensitive speakers. Can my receiver give theatre like sound with 92db sensitivity or lower? I leave the surround sound speakers.

No matter how I cut it, to get the quality of sound I want replacing the receiver would go past the maximum I can spend.

Thank you.

Did you not make a typo? That space is 400 sq.ft. larger than my whole house.

For a space that big it is a total waste of money to spend any more on equipment. To fill a space that large requires a lot of power and huge speakers. It is truly a professional undertaking and requires a large knowledge base. I have designed and built out in spaces that large and larger in times past, but is is a massive undertaking.

For Atmos that space is too large for the domestic specs and requires a pro approach which for Atmos is very, very expensive. You will not fill that space with speakers driven from a receiver. That is just tinkering.

 

[j_garcia]

Cubic not Square footage? It is still a big room. Mine is about 30x35 with an open kitchen and I have a 20ft vaulted celling, so a big space too.

Let's start with: when you say "not good", where is it not performing so well? Is it SPL? If SPL, but you like the sound, an amp might be sufficient. If that is the size of the room, then that space to fill is likely a factor. Or is it the way it sounds? That will help.

 

[gnorthern]

Good Lord, your great room is more than twice the size of my whole house !

Tell me how anyone with a 5200 sq ft great room has to worry about $$, good luck, you're gonna need it .....

Oops. Cubic feet. Thank you for pointing that out. Our house is only 1720 square feet total.

 

[gnorthern]

Cubic not Square footage? It is still a big room. Mine is about 30x35 with an open kitchen and I have a 20ft vaulted celling, so a big space too.

Let's start with: when you say "not good", where is it not performing so well? Is it SPL? If SPL, but you like the sound, an amp might be sufficient. If that is the size of the room, then that space to fill is likely a factor. Or is it the way it sounds? That will help.

Wow, you have a really big room.

The sound pressure is fine. I have just heard far more expensive setups have greater clarity (reviewers say pick up the nuances of the music). I can drive my speakers loud without breaking sweat. My concern with less sensitive speakers I get the clarity but lose the sound pressure when watching movies and shows. I have a super sub (I replaced that first since I found a super deal, a 15" Paradigm) which I have not setup, but I have zero doubt will sound better than 12" Klipsch currently in use from Costco.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have…Klipsch RF-82 II speakers…..Would the RP-8000F II with matching Atmos speakers or the RP-8060FA II be a step up?

No. I don’t think so.

 

[1MoreFord]

Get some used Cornwall's?

 

[gnorthern]

Get some used Cornwall's?

I would but they don;t math my wife's decorum. I am going to start all over again and rephrase my question.

 

[mono-bloc]

I would but they don;t math my wife's decorum.

Get the Cornwalls and trade in the wife.
I'm sorry but I can't help myself sometimes, We hear it all the time , "She who must be obeyed" gives the orders and controls your hard earned . And like a little mouse, you comply.
Consider this, Woman are like guns, You can always trade a 45, for a 22

 

[gnorthern]

Get the Cornwalls and trade in the wife.
I'm sorry but I can't help myself sometimes, We hear it all the time , "She who must be obeyed" gives the orders and controls your hard earned . And like a little mouse, you comply.
Consider this, Woman are like guns, You can always trade a 45, for a 22
[/QUOT

Before we retired we discussed plans. She wanted to move and I wanted to stay put. The compromise was she gets a house built the way she wants. And it worked fine since I like out current house far more than our previous one. Though a lot smaller we have two garages which is great.

And the fact that she made more than I did is the reason I can look at spending $3000 on speakers.

 

[Eppie]

Great rooms are a challenge because the odd shape makes them less than ideal acoustically. Pictures of the room can help. For example, placing an area rug over tile flooring in front of the speakers can improve sound. Forum members could use a lot more information though.

Is it mostly music or movies that you want to improve? (Upgrading the main speakers will improve 2-channel music but for movies you need a really good center channel speaker.) Is there something in particular that you don't like about the sound? How intelligible is movie dialogue?

Have you auditioned any other brand of speaker and are there any that appeal to you?

If the appearance is important, what style does your wife like? Basic black box with speaker grills? Something in wood or in white? Towers or bookshelves on stands?

$3000 can get a good pair of speakers. For replacing all 3 in the front, that is a little more challenging.

Whether the AVR is enough for the room depends on how loud you like it. Few speakers will match the Klipsch for efficiency but the average 86-87dB sensitivity is good enough for most at moderate listening levels.

 

[Verdinut]

We can't ignore that listening position distance from the speakers is also a major factor in calculating power amplifying requirements.

 

[gnorthern]

Great rooms are a challenge because the odd shape makes them less than ideal acoustically. Pictures of the room can help. For example, placing an area rug over tile flooring in front of the speakers can improve sound. Forum members could use a lot more information though.

Is it mostly music or movies that you want to improve? (Upgrading the main speakers will improve 2-channel music but for movies you need a really good center channel speaker.) Is there something in particular that you don't like about the sound? How intelligible is movie dialogue?

Have you auditioned any other brand of speaker and are there any that appeal to you?

If the appearance is important, what style does your wife like? Basic black box with speaker grills? Something in wood or in white? Towers or bookshelves on stands?

$3000 can get a good pair of speakers. For replacing all 3 in the front, that is a little more challenging.

Whether the AVR is enough for the room depends on how loud you like it. Few speakers will match the Klipsch for efficiency but the average 86-87dB sensitivity is good enough for most at moderate listening levels.

I have almost given up on music, but I am reading about the problems Roku has with music. I tried replacing Spotify premium with Tonal, but I could not hear the difference (I took a test one time testing 320 kbps vs lossless with $400 headphones, and I could, but barely). Right now all music sounds bad and I use headphones, but I have not given up.

My main concern is TV. The audio from the TV is no match much for my theatre setup, but speech is a bit clearer. Also, I have different concert blue-rays, and I want the sound quality to come close to my headphones.

Your post has convinced me to up the budget to $3500.

 

[TLS Guy]

I have almost given up on music, but I am reading about the problems Roku has with music. I tried replacing Spotify premium with Tonal, but I could not hear the difference (I took a test one time testing 320 kbps vs lossless with $400 headphones, and I could, but barely). Right now all music sounds bad and I use headphones, but I have not given up.

My main concern is TV. The audio from the TV is no match much for my theatre setup, but speech is a bit clearer. Also, I have different concert blue-rays, and I want the sound quality to come close to my headphones.

Your post has convinced me to up the budget to $3500.

It really would help if we had pictures, a plan of that room, and speaker positions. With the right speakers you can get good sound in most rooms. Speakers tend to be the major problem for multiple reasons. Most speakers are far too fussy about rooms and placements as it emphasizes their shortcomings, which more often than not are plentiful.

 

[gnorthern]

The position of the towers is somewhat fixed. I can pull the speakers further from the wall. My chair slides a lot and varies between 10-12 feet, though more like 10 when watching movie. The subwoofers are going since I found a good deal on Defiance X15 subwoofer. You can guess what chair is mine. The room is 17 by 34.

Right now I leaning towards buying Focal speakers since all the reviewers say the midrange is very good. I don't need bass with the subwoofer.

 

[TLS Guy]

The position of the towers is somewhat fixed. I can pull the speakers further from the wall. My chair slides a lot and varies between 10-12 feet, though more like 10 when watching movie. The subwoofers are going since I found a good deal on Defiance X15 subwoofer. You can guess what chair is mine. The room is 17 by 34.View attachment 72104

Right now I leaning towards buying Focal speakers since all the reviewers say the midrange is very good. I don't need bass with the subwoofer.

View attachment 72103

That picture is helpful. That room certainly presents challenges. It is not different from many multipurpose rooms though.

One thing I notice is that the TV is too high. That is a common problem and uncomfortable. Optimal height is 42" from the bottom of the TV.

The biggest upgrade I think you could make it to get rid of the useless upfiring speakers. This should be combined with getting the best right left and center speakers you can afford. After that work on the subs. That smaller sub may well be a downgrade. So often less is more in a lot of things and especially speakers.

That room is a 3.1 room max. So building the best 3.1 system is your best design approach.

 

[gnorthern]

The atmos speakers are going.

That picture is helpful. That room certainly presents challenges. It is not different from many multipurpose rooms though.

One thing I notice is that the TV is too high. That is a common problem and uncomfortable. Optimal height is 42" from the bottom of the TV.

The biggest upgrade I think you could make it to get rid of the useless upfiring speakers. This should be combined with getting the best right left and center speakers you can afford. After that work on the subs. That smaller sub may well be a downgrade. So often less is more in a lot of things and especially speakers.

That room is a 3.1 room max. So building the best 3.1 system is your best design approach.

Thanks for your thoughts. I am buying three good front speakers.

If Atmos existed when I designed the house, I would have prewired for them in the ceiling. So, it's not my imagination, they don't do anything. They are going.

The TV is a longer story. Both my wife and I like to sit in our recliner with the feet up. I can't do that without the back tilting back. So, while not great, it's not so bad I am motivated to move it.

The subs are being replaced with a Defiance X15.

 

[Antares]

A closer look tells me the real culprit of your audio issues may be the glass windows surrounding your system.

 

[Eppie]

Thanks for posting the photos. I think you are headed in the right direction. Members here in general try and dissuade the use of upfiring ATMOS speakers as the proximity to the main speakers tends to cause interference. The X15 is an excellent sub so no qualms there. I'll assume that the surrounds are slightly behind the two seats on the sides, or are they on the rear wall?

For ATMOS, yes, it would have been nice to pre-wire for two more ceiling speakers a little in front of your seats. I would stick with the two for now and if you get a chance to install two more in-ceiling that would be the way to go if ATMOS is important to you.

The proper approach is to concentrate on the bed layer first (fronts and surrounds). Windows and doorways are always constraining factors which has led to your main speakers being closer together than what would be recommended for that size of room. You want to have enough separation between the speakers to avoid interference between them. Some members will recommend that you forgo the center speaker because the mains are so close together. Using 2 in the front creates a "phantom" center channel and depending on the seating distance that can work quite well. You can experiment with your existing speakers by simply disabling the center speaker in your AVR setup menu.

Having said that, my speakers are also a little close together but I like having a center speaker to anchor the dialogue to the TV. My seating is spread further out, so it helps with the seats that are off to the side. The best centers use a 3-way design as that reduces comb filtering, which causes interference when you move off of the center axis. A good 3-way center can cost almost as much as the main pair though, which makes upgrading all 3 a bigger challenge.

Hardwood floors and windows make the room more lively but you already have an area rug, which is good, plus the soft furniture and window treatments help. A simple test is to clap your hands and listen for how long it takes the echo to decay. If it drops off quickly, then the room likely has enough soft elements to absorb the sound energy. Adding treatments can be a tricky business though.

I've rambled on here, so I'll talk about speakers in another post.