What Is Your Expert Opinion?

[Jungle Squirrel]

I bet the tech you spoke to at definitive confused the LFE input portion of your 8020s with the full range signal sent through the speaker wire from the receiver amplifier to the 8020s. It is possible that the woofer simply acts as a bass driver when using the binding post without receiving any .LFE information and when you plug in the 8020s the internal amp provides additional power for the .LFE signal similar to bi-amping. I thought I read they are bi-amped internally only when plugged in. Obviously the pb1000 will be a great addition to this setup which will provide real sub performance and the second one will be the icing on the cake. The only downside of the 8020s is the bass driver are really not suited to handle the additional .LFE signal at high output. Probably why they were designed with a side firing woofer to use the corner boundaries as an additional gain to overall SPL. There are always trade offs but still a very practical design when you think about it! I’ve never heard them so my guess is keeping them away from the corners will provide the best music quality and closer to the corners will be better suited for HT. They may be a bit boomy on music if corner loaded with a side firing woofer. You could reverse setup them so the woofer fire towards each other instead of at the walls just for the experience. The speaker doesn’t say I’m a right channel or left. That is up to you to play around with that. How much you place them into the room and the amount of toe in/out will all create a different experience for you. Once you add the pb1000 sub your going to have a lot of critical listening again to dial in your expectations!


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Your probably right. I do keep them off the walls. I will say, these 8020 are very good and even outstanding considering what I paid for them - $300 each open box back in 2015. With that being said, I know I can take it up a level by adding at least one real sub. Thanks again!

 

[Jungle Squirrel]

The LEF input as shown in your attached picture, is in fact a RCA input connector.



The "Subwoofer pre out" will output the LFE channel as long as in the RX-A2070 speaker setting you set the subwoofer 1&2 to "normal" (see owner's manual page 126)



He was correct but only if you set the RX-A2070 subwoofer setting to "none". If you want to add external subwoofers, then you obviously have to set the subwoofer setting to "normal", so in that case you have to use the "LFE Subwoofer Input", and connect it to the RX-A2070's Subwoofer pre out (use either one with a splitter in order to feed the left and right BP8020ST.



Yes, that is the right way to do it if you want the BP8020ST to receive the LFE channel, otherwise skip it as suggested by everetT. You can try both ways to find out which way sounds better to you. Skipping it would likely get you flatter bass response though.

Edit: I just noticed your room seems too big for 1 or even two PB1000. If two PB2000 exceeds your budget then you probably should get one (the PB2000) for now, and keep the option to add a second one later.

I guess that is something to consider. The ceiling is a bit over 8' high as it is on the second floor so I'm just under 3000' cubic. I may start pricing them. I believe someone stated that the SB2000 will hit lower frequencies? Would that be a viable option?

Thanks!

 

[PENG]

I guess that is something to consider. The ceiling is a bit over 8' high as it is on the second floor so I'm just under 3000' cubic. I may start pricing them. I believe someone stated that the SB2000 will hit lower frequencies? Would that be a viable option?

Thanks!

You should email SVS for a direct response. According to specs, it can do 19-220 Hz +/- 3 dB, compared to the PB2000's 17-260 Hz. I think SVS will tell you the PB2000 will give you at least 2 dB more output in the lowest octave.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I guess that is something to consider. The ceiling is a bit over 8' high as it is on the second floor so I'm just under 3000' cubic. I may start pricing them. I believe someone stated that the SB2000 will hit lower frequencies? Would that be a viable option?

Thanks!

The SB2k MIGHT be capable of making some kind of sound that’s lower in the frequency band, but it would be hard to hear, and you’d have to be in a closet. This is due to 12db per octave roll off vs
24db per octave. SB2k is a great “little” sub but it’s not capable of much output. IMO, a single pb2k would be the minimum to use, and plan for a second. “Maybe” a pair of pb1k’s, but a pair of pb2k’s would be really nice. You might use the 8020’s “sub” section with the first sub until you can get the second. BUT, they will be the weak link with limited output, and very little extension. They also might do more harm than good by their combined output with the subwoofer in the 40hz range. A boomy blobby mess. The specs I found show 30-20k. Not a chance the 8020’s have much output below 35hz IMO so, I would cross them at 80 and leave the LFE and redirected bass to a sub/s.

 

[HTfreak2004]

I agree. The problem with all in one towers comes back to box volume. Usually speakers that are near full range even with a built in amp need a large box to house a large bass driver or multiple smaller drivers with excellent excursions to justifiably pressurize a room of 3000cf. Nothing and I mean absolutely no all in one loudspeakers or integrated piece of audio equipment can touch using a dedicated sub(s) or separates that do there job as they were designed to when produced by the same manufacturer. Yes many will try to argue apples to oranges but let’s keep the facts straight and the fruit. True high performance dedicated sub(s) are designed to eat loud speakers bass drivers for an appetizer without any room for debate. That is why it has only one purpose to leave us listeners with nothing left wanting or questioning! All in ones save money and space but that is all. No company can build a product directly intended to be a part of its own product line and justify its value in the market place without demonstrating why we are going to have to pay more to get a measurable and actual perceived improvement especially if they want to be respected and stay in business for the long haul. You may not want to pay but at least give credit where credit is due. Active subs are more than just a larger speaker driver in a box, they have a dedicated amp(s), excursions beyond normal loud speaker drivers, system integration controls, the ability to be located in positions not realistic with all in one floor standers/towers since they are not about stereo imaging but instead designed for low frequency output(dedicated purpose) which interacts with room design more than any other portion of the frequency band. They are also designed for peak output not realistic to the products they support. Manufacturers design their subs to extend the frequency range for a specific lineup mostly associated to that price category. The same is true with receivers. The amp inside integrated units should improve with price but since amp power is expensive it makes more sense to purchase those types products based on features and not its amp. Separate processors and amps offer dedicated features and more importantly dedicated power supplies so there is no sharing of the same power cable which ultimately affects the current available to the internal amp. Anyone who has ever used a power conditioner rated at 15 amps total with a high current amp capable of 15 amps draw knows the amp will not have the full power draw leading to sound compression. If your going to dedicate use a dedicated wall outlet designed to provide enough continuous wattage to not trip if your sub or main amp is powered through it. That’s no different than having the correct tool for the job at hand. You may not push your amps that hard but it’s better to have the current available if needed than to need it and not have it. If your planning to upgrade subs or amps later, plan your power supply correctly first or your not going to get all the performance you paid for. Just moving from a 15 amp circuit to a 20 amp can provide noticeable performance improvements for higher performance subs if the sub amps are drawing max power. Dedicated circuits also get your gear off an integrated circuit and give you piece of mind the sub amp has full current when it asked for!


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[Jungle Squirrel]

I agree. The problem with all in one towers comes back to box volume. Usually speakers that are near full range even with a built in amp need a large box to house a large bass driver or multiple smaller drivers with excellent excursions to justifiably pressurize a room of 3000cf. Nothing and I mean absolutely no all in one loudspeakers or integrated piece of audio equipment can touch using a dedicated sub(s) or separates that do there job as they were designed to when produced by the same manufacturer. Yes many will try to argue apples to oranges but let’s keep the facts straight and the fruit. True high performance dedicated sub(s) are designed to eat loud speakers bass drivers for an appetizer without any room for debate. That is why it has only one purpose to leave us listeners with nothing left wanting or questioning! All in ones save money and space but that is all. No company can build a product directly intended to be a part of its own product line and justify its value in the market place without demonstrating why we are going to have to pay more to get a measurable and actual perceived improvement especially if they want to be respected and stay in business for the long haul. You may not want to pay but at least give credit where credit is due. Active subs are more than just a larger speaker driver in a box, they have a dedicated amp(s),excursions beyond normal loud speaker drivers, system integration controls, the ability to be located in positions not realistic with all in one floor standers/towers since they are not about stereo imaging but instead designed for low frequency output(dedicated purpose) which interacts with room design more than any other portion of the frequency band. They are also designed for peak output not realistic to the products they support. Manufacturers design their subs to extend the frequency range for a specific lineup mostly associated to that price category. The same is true with receivers. The amp inside integrated units should improve with price but since amp power is expensive it makes more sense to purchase those types products based on features and not its amp. Separate processors and amps offer dedicated features and more importantly dedicated power supplies so there is no sharing of the same power cable which ultimately affects the current available to the internal amp. Anyone who has ever used a power conditioner rated at 15 amps total with a high current amp capable of 15 amps draw knows the amp will not have the full power draw leading to sound compression. If your going to dedicate use a dedicated wall outlet designed to provide enough continuous wattage to not trip if your sub or main amp is powered through it. That’s no different than having the correct tool for the job at hand. You may not push your amps that hard but it’s better to have the current available if needed than to need it and not have it. If your planning to upgrade subs or amps later, plan your power supply correctly first or your not going to get all the performance you paid for. Just moving from a 15 amp circuit to a 20 amp can provide noticeable performance improvements for higher performance subs if the sub amps are drawing max power. Dedicated circuits also get your gear off an integrated circuit and give you piece of mind the sub amp has full current when it asked for!


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Yes, I agree with everything you stated. I’m moving into a track home so as much as I tried to persuade my PM he couldn’t have dedicated lines installed because of the electrical plans. I will have to run dedicated outlets after I move in. He did let me pre-wire my surround wiring and had the electrician run an extra outlet off of existing wiring. Good thing is everything on that circuit will not get close enough to exceed the wattage. I still plan to run a 20 Amp for my components at some point. If I add the sub it will be pretty much required depending on placement.

 

[HTfreak2004]

What I did is split a double 20a breaker so that on my 2 outlet wall receptacle has a dedicated 20 amp to each plug. Code requirements are that a double 20a breaker is used since people naturally assume both outlets are on a single breaker. If the wattage exceeds either outlets max draw the whole breaker trips. Each outlet gets max wattage though. My sub has the potential to max draw 1700 watts RMS which I noticed sound compression on a 15 amp Line. During heavy bass content. Keep in mind I have my main amp with a max draw into 2 ohms capable of 1800 watts RMS plus all of my other components that were all sharing the integrated 15 amp circuit that I thought was at least a parallel circuit but my contractor set it up as a series circuit. My gear would shut down on heavy bass content at loud playback of 10 db below reference level. Damned eagles song(get over it). Luckily when I had my theatre room built I requested 2x40 amp breakers. I ended up with 1x40 amp and 2x20 amp which the wiring was all 12 gauge so I converted the 1x40 to a double 20 giving me 4 dedicated 20 amp outlets on my front wall. Each outlet requires the bridge bar to be broken on the hot side and then you run the hot wire to each outlets hot screw. The neutral side bridge bar can remain intact however. That little upgrade made a credible difference and costed if I remember under 30 for everything (A second double 20a breaker, two 20a receptacles and a foot of 12 gauge wire due to needing a piece of the ground wire for grounding the receptacle to the box it was in). Goes to show not every sonic improvement comes from upgrading gear or room acoustics. It might not make the mids and highs better but at least the power hungry bass is happy

 

[PENG]

What I did is split a double 20a breaker so that on my 2 outlet wall receptacle has a dedicated 20 amp to each plug. Code requirements are that a double 20a breaker is used since people naturally assume both outlets are on a single breaker. If the wattage exceeds either outlets max draw the whole breaker trips. Each outlet gets max wattage though. My sub has the potential to max draw 1700 watts RMS which I noticed sound compression on a 15 amp Line. During heavy bass content. Keep in mind I have my main amp with a max draw into 2 ohms capable of 1800 watts RMS plus all of my other components that were all sharing the integrated 15 amp circuit that I thought was at least a parallel circuit but my contractor set it up as a series circuit. My gear would shut down on heavy bass content at loud playback of 10 db below reference level. Damned eagles song(get over it). Luckily when I had my theatre room built I requested 2x40 amp breakers. I ended up with 1x40 amp and 2x20 amp which the wiring was all 12 gauge so I converted the 1x40 to a double 20 giving me 4 dedicated 20 amp outlets on my front wall. Each outlet requires the bridge bar to be broken on the hot side and then you run the hot wire to each outlets hot screw. The neutral side bridge bar can remain intact however. That little upgrade made a credible difference and costed if I remember under 30 for everything (A second double 20a breaker, two 20a receptacles and a foot of 12 gauge wire due to needing a piece of the ground wire for grounding the receptacle to the box it was in). Goes to show not every sonic improvement comes from upgrading gear or room acoustics. It might not make the mids and highs better but at least the power hungry bass is happy

Keep in mind breakers trip on current not wattage. Also, a 20 A breaker will not, and should not trip right away if the draw exceeds 20 A, thermal magnetic type generally follows a current vs time characteristic curve, thought it would in fact trip almost (but not quite) instantaneously if the current draw far exceeds the rated current, like by multiple times.

 

[HTfreak2004]

I understand the electric principles at work I mentioned. Wattage is a measure of work(work produces heat) The equation VoltsxAmps=Watts is interchangeable. Watts is the product of the other two variables and any part of the equation can be arranged to find the other variables. It’s easier when discussing the sub and or all components sharing the circuit as a total wattage draw rather than become technical unless the person is asking for the technical. The real question becomes how far to we need to get into technicalities to make our point? I was simply sharing my home theatre experience with my dedicated circuits in my previous post. My post wasn’t asked for but it’s fun to share our experiences without needing to post chapter 2 paragraph 7 subsection 2a from an electrical manual to explain volts/amps/and watts or thermal heat. No offense meant or taken by the way. I’m trying my best not to get overly technical anymore and be simple.

 

[Jungle Squirrel]

Okay, so I was fooling around through the forums and came across the HSU Research VTF-2F MK5. The more I read about this the more I feel 1 of these would be the best bang for my buck. What are your thought?

 

[HTfreak2004]

It seems with the VTF-2F MK5 that the two port open operation offers less of a bump from 40 hz down to 20 hz and is flatter yet there is quite a bump below 20 hz with the one port open operation. Unless your room is solid and not likely to rattle a lot I would use the two port operation the most otherwise you will stimulate more in room rattles. I’m not a fan of having a flat curve to 40hz then about a 10db dip from 40-20 with a 10 db jump below 20. A flatter curve from 40hz to 25hz at 95 db and rolled off at 24 db below that means you should still be around 90 db at 20hz if you use both ports. That also should sound smoother with your surround speakers and if your listening to two channels with the sub in my opinion. I don’t think you’ll be disappointed with this sub or the pb your considering if you could try either im youf room for a week that would be awesome!