What do I need for subs for these speakers

[Danzilla31]

Hi Danzilla!
Budget? Ha! As little as possible for as much as possible? Mind, I'm upgrading the whole kit at once. And my budget is already upside down. (Don't tell my Lady!) The rule of thumb of speakers being 2/3 the budget and your receiver 1/3 or whatever(3/4-1/4?)?... Bought my Marantz SR6012 on sale for $900 over the summer. was originally gonna go with the 5012 reg price 999. So, $3K was meant to be my speaker budget. Then I was thinking, "well its actually a $1500 AVR so I should fudge it up to $4500." Then as I shopped and learned and learned and shopped, I kept sliding upwards. Now I'm basically shopping for my forever speakers and subs, and an amp (front 3), with the knowledge that I'm probably going to upgrade my AVR to a Surround Pre/Pro in a year or so, along with a separate amp to run my 4 surrounds. (I am pretty starry-eyed about the RMC-1.)
Anyway, none of that answers your question.
If I were to buy 7.0 Setup: Emotiva Airmotiv rig for $2130, I would have no concern dropping 3 at this point on dual PB or PC 4000s. (Again though, an svs rep thought dual 4000s might not handle my room, so Outlaw or Hsu duals... still no concern.) Likewise, a Monitor Audio Bronze rig would run $2400. Review after review, I kept crossing things off my list and creeping up in budget. My main front runners have become Monitor Audio Silvers at $5300.
So then, how much more for the subs, and how much for that amp?
I am looking at another option that might give me a full 7.2 system, fully matched, at around $7K I'm hoping. All told, I would prefer not spending over 2 on dual subs, but outlaw shipped is $2800. I can drive to Hsu and back same day for $1749 plus gas and a phat lunch in LA -- Koreatown, perhaps?...

I like that FV15HP, too. Also, the FV18. I have concerns that the FV25HP might lack a little power for my room, though.

You however, have two PB4000s... and love them. What are your thoughts? Are they doing what you want, and how you want?

I've been warned by many of our friends here about mixing subs... Why do you want to mix pairs? I would think you should get 2 more of the same so everything matches tight. Anybody care to support or rebut, please?

So Danzilla, did I answer your question? It will probably be Outlaw or Hsu that wins my business, unless this other company impresses me.

Cheers!

Hey my friend man your in the same boat I was I can tell you that.
First off good luck on the total revamp man I'm glad I'm single! Lol
Those PB's handle that room just fine. Actually beyond what I was hoping for. I'm surprised that SVS was that concerned they weren't so much with me. They give me tactile response they are so precise accurate distortion free so good for music and just stellar for movies.
I would go with matching subs but the PB 4000's are HUGE. Don't want those behind the couch and the PC 4000's are just too darn tall. But the outlaws will fit back there no problem.
It's not easy to combine different subs but not impossible. Especially if extension and frequency range are compatible. We're it's really a no no is mixing ported subs with sealed subs but ported subs from what I understand if power extension and specs are close you can get then to play nice. Just be best to have a mini dsp sol meter and all the other as stuff to get them to dial in just right
The Outlaws when I talked with guys here about them are a decent match with the 4000's if I run them in 1 port mode and the SVS in 2 port mode. And like you said 2800 shipped is one of the best deals out there for duals of that caliber.
I'm still surprised SVS was afraid the 4000's couldn't handle that room maybe you were just wanting one? They are stronger then the ultra 13's although the 13's are a great sub don't get me wrong.
The FV25HP's are a dual 15 inch 1800 watt RMS ported monster each they have 2 15's in them that are native tuned I believe to 12.5 Hz and can hit 100 db levels in room at 10hz if I believe? They have monster monster output. So much that even with my room size I don't even think I could handle there power. But they may be a little outside your budget if they're a bit more then the 4000's. These are my dream subs by the way if I had a real theater room where I wouldn't care about they're looks they would be my only choice for a room that size outside of build your own that Id recommend the others I'd want from like Seaton Funk etc etc would just cost way way too much.
Good luck with your choices you can't go wrong with either company in fact all of them are great. I'll look forward to hearing what you decide on.

 

[snakeeyes]

If he drives to HSU and comes back with 4 VTF15’s should we worry?

 

[Danzilla31]

If he drives to HSU and comes back with 4 VTF15’s should we worry?

No! We should rejoice!

 

[ryanosaur]

If he drives to HSU and comes back with 4 VTF15’s should we worry?

(as long as she doesn't look too closely, it will be ok.)

 

[Danzilla31]

(as long as she doesn't look too closely, it will be ok.)

Shhhhhhhh we won't tell!

 

[ryanosaur]

BTW, Danzilla, she thinks I've gone over the deep end. Really. But I haven't had any extravagance in my life. So a lot of hard work has earned me some leeway. For now. When the speakers come..., well, I'll get back to you in a month?
Yes, the FV25HP... I got stuck on the 15.
I think if I was going to go to $2500 price point per: I would buy the PB16Ultras. Hands down. Wouldn't think twice. The SVS support alone seems worth it. If I had the money, Funk and Deep Sea are sexy A.F! And If Deep Sea is giving it to us straight, that might be the flattest response I've seen in a graph to date! I almost just want to put that graph up on my wall.
The only other concern goes back to cats. The pc4000s are scratching posts from heaven! For now, if thats my biggest concern, I'll take it. #firstworldproblems

 

[Danzilla31]

BTW, Danzilla, she thinks I've gone over the deep end. Really. But I haven't had any extravagance in my life. So a lot of hard work has earned me some leeway. For now. When the speakers come..., well, I'll get back to you in a month?
Yes, the FV25HP... I got stuck on the 15.
I think if I was going to go to $2500 price point per: I would buy the PB16Ultras. Hands down. Wouldn't think twice. The SVS support alone seems worth it. If I had the money, Funk and Deep Sea are sexy A.F! And If Deep Sea is giving it to us straight, that might be the flattest response I've seen in a graph to date! I almost just want to put that graph up on my wall.
The only other concern goes back to cats. The pc4000s are scratching posts from heaven! For now, if thats my biggest concern, I'll take it. #firstworldproblems

Love first world problems.
I think your misunderstanding on the FV25HP's. One sub has 2 15 inch woofers in it 2 of them that's 30 inches of cone in one sub that's a lottof air moving! Native tuned not extended mode to 12.5 or 13 hz. Just one of those monsters just one can hit 100 db at 10 Hz just one. Have you seen there numbers at data bass. They make the PB 16 sound like a sound bar and it's a great sub and I love SVS okay that's a little over exxagerated but not by too much. They destroy the 16's all day long on almost any frequency. They are what I call a true super sub they can do it all music movies true 10hz extension lower bass mid bass upper bass off the charts. For a commercial sub to do that at that price its just I've never found another they are the same price as the PB 16's and if I had a choice Id pick the FV25HP's for the same price over the PB 16's all day long but alas as you say real world problems they stick out in my living room like a sore thumb!
Hey man I love people in love. My parents have been together for over 50 years what they have is beautiful. But man you gotta have something of your own as well. And you've earned this and although she probably thinks your crazy I bet she understands. I see your passion about this in every response so I say go for it bro! If it makes you happy and brightens your life I bet it's gonna spill over into her life as well. I can't wait to see your final choices. You gotta send us some pics bro!

 

[ryanosaur]

Love first world problems.
I think your misunderstanding on the FV25HP's. One sub has 2 15 inch woofers in it 2 of them that's 30 inches of cone in one sub that's a lottof air moving! Native tuned not extended mode to 12.5 or 13 hz. Just one of those monsters just one can hit 100 db at 10 Hz just one. Have you seen there numbers at data bass. They make the PB 16 sound like a sound bar and it's a great sub and I love SVS okay that's a little over exxagerated but not by too much. They destroy the 16's all day long on almost any frequency. They are what I call a true super sub they can do it all music movies true 10hz extension lower bass mid bass upper bass off the charts. For a commercial sub to do that at that price its just I've never found another they are the same price as the PB 16's and if I had a choice Id pick the FV25HP's for the same price over the PB 16's all day long but alas as you say real world problems they stick out in my living room like a sore thumb!
Hey man I love people in love. My parents have been together for over 50 years what they have is beautiful. But man you gotta have something of your own as well. And you've earned this and although she probably thinks your crazy I bet she understands. I see your passion about this in every response so I say go for it bro! If it makes you happy and brightens your life I bet it's gonna spill over into her life as well. I can't wait to see your final choices. You gotta send us some pics bro!

Not gonna lie: Still coming to terms with all the specs and such. Even looking at the graphs is still a little suspect at times. I'm getting there, though.
Would two drivers stacked like that offer the same benefit as two individual subs placed around the room?
Depending on how this all goes, I'm gonna have some explaining to do! To the Lady, and to some people here, too. Photos will come.

 

[Danzilla31]

Not gonna lie: Still coming to terms with all the specs and such. Even looking at the graphs is still a little suspect at times. I'm getting there, though.
Would two drivers stacked like that offer the same benefit as two individual subs placed around the room?
Depending on how this all goes, I'm gonna have some explaining to do! To the Lady, and to some people here, too. Photos will come.

I don't believe so due to the fact that you spread subs out too get a smoother frequency response for as many seats not just your main listener seat in the room. Basically it helps get rid off all those nasty peaks and nulls that are caused by the room and the low frequency waves interacting. You can have the most powerful sub in the world but if there's a room node in a ceartin spot well not even brute force can overcome that node. Which is where the extra sub comes in. In a different spot it hits those nulls etc etc all those room nodes the other sub can't in its spot and you get a flatter smoother response with more people in your seats hearing more and better bass. Also duals does increase output not always by the standard 6db from what I've read that will vary unless they're stacked but what it does is smooth the response give better bass to more spots in the room and increase headroom. You don't half to drive both subs as hard as you would one to get the same output which takes some strain off those amps
One thing to keep in mind is a lot of these companies let you try out there products for a trial if they don't work you can sendvem back for a full refund. SVS offers onevofvthe best 45 day in home trial full refund free shipping both ways. A lot of people bitch that they're prices are higher then other companies but think about the level of support your getting there. Some companies will fully refund you but you gotta pay return shipping. Find out what each companies return policy is. Stick to your budget if they're trial policy is good start with outlaw because they are close to your budget. If they don't work return them and move on to the next ones on your list

 

[Danzilla31]

Not gonna lie: Still coming to terms with all the specs and such. Even looking at the graphs is still a little suspect at times. I'm getting there, though.
Would two drivers stacked like that offer the same benefit as two individual subs placed around the room?
Depending on how this all goes, I'm gonna have some explaining to do! To the Lady, and to some people here, too. Photos will come.

You should always go duals but if you can't go duals then you should buy the biggest baddest sub you can get so when you upgrade to duals later with that exact second monster sub well then your set. Of your budget is 2k and your getting one if I was in your shoes Id get the Rhythmik FV18
The PB 16 just save up a little more or The Rhythmik FV25HP's just save up a little more. That's what I would do but there are other options so really listen to everyone's choices and reasons why and then go with your gut your instinct and your budget once you've heard all the options.

 

[Danzilla31]

You should always go duals but if you can't go duals then you should buy the biggest baddest sub you can get so when you upgrade to duals later with that exact second monster sub well then your set. Of your budget is 2k and your getting one if I was in your shoes Id get the Rhythmik FV18
The PB 16 just save up a little more or The Rhythmik FV25HP's just save up a little more. That's what I would do but there are other options so really listen to everyone's choices and reasons why and then go with your gut your instinct and your budget once you've heard all the options.

Actually my wish list would be 1 FV25HP 2 FV18 3 PB 16 lol in that order

 

[snakeeyes]

Actually my wish list would be 1 FV25HP 2 FV18 3 PB 16 lol in that order

I’m staying with the 3 HSU idea even though I like Rythmik a lot. He should stay on budget somewhat.

 

[Danzilla31]

I’m staying with the 3 HSU idea even though I like Rythmik a lot. He should stay on budget somewhat.

Ehhhhhh budgetschmudget. I say got for the gusto!

 

[Danzilla31]

Ehhhhhh budgetschmudget. I say got for the gusto!

Easy to say when it's not my money

 

[shadyJ]

I’m staying with the 3 HSU idea even though I like Rythmik a lot. He should stay on budget somewhat.

The FV25HP is an absolute monster. It was tested extensively here and was shown to be one of the leading performers in its price bracket, comparable to JTR's similarly priced Captivator 2400 ULF. However, for about the same price as one FV25HP you could get 3 VTF-3 mk5s. Comparing performance, the FV25HP will have an advantage below 16 Hz since it is tuned deeper, 16 to 20 Hz is about the same, but at 25 Hz and above the triple VTF-3 system would have a significant advantage. For me, I would swing toward the triple VTF-3 system not for performance advantage but because of the weight. I can safely lift and carry around a single VTF-3 with no help, but the 210 lbs FV25HP is a different matter. You really have to carefully plan out the logistics before ordering something like that. You need a dolly to move that around.

 

[Danzilla31]

The FV25HP is an absolute monster. It was tested extensively here and was shown to be one of the leading performers in its price bracket, comparable to JTR's similarly priced Captivator 2400 ULF. However, for about the same price as one FV25HP you could get 3 VTF-3 mk5s. Comparing performance, the FV25HP will have an advantage below 16 Hz since it is tuned deeper, 16 to 20 Hz is about the same, but at 25 Hz and above the triple VTF-3 system would have a significant advantage. For me, I would swing toward the triple VTF-3 system not for performance advantage but because of the weight. I can safely lift and carry around a single VTF-3 with no help, but the 210 lbs FV25HP is a different matter. You really have to carefully plan out the logistics before ordering something like that. You need a dolly to move that around.

The fight is over ladies and gentlemen we haaaaaaave a wiiiiinneerr! Lol just kidding yeah 3 of those VTF-3 would be badass. Actually all the speaker options we are all discussing are great options I like em all. It's a really great time for subwoofers like subwoofer heaven for buyers out there. I really also like the idea of him being able to drive to HSU and bring 2 of those back for under 2k like he posted since that's his budget range

 

[shadyJ]

The fight is over ladies and gentlemen we haaaaaaave a wiiiiinneerr! Lol just kidding yeah 3 of those VTF-3 would be badass. Actually all the speaker options we are all discussing are great options I like em all. It's a really great time for subwoofers like subwoofer heaven for buyers out there. I really also like the idea of him being able to drive to HSU and bring 2 of those back for under 2k like he posted since that's his budget range

Something else to consider is how loud does it really need to be? Yeah, you can get subs that will do 125dB at the listening position, but that very likely way outpaces the main speakers anyway. And you would rarely play it that loud, maybe for a few moments for a demo for friends or something like that. It's not really worth having to deal with such large and heavy subs and pay so much money for something that will very infrequently be used. And those people who say you have to get enough displacement to pressurize the whole room sometimes don't realize that the listening positions are not going to be spread out over the entire room.

 

[snakeeyes]

Something else to consider is how loud does it really need to be? Yeah, you can get subs that will do 125dB at the listening position, but that very likely way outpaces the main speakers anyway. And you would rarely play it that loud, maybe for a few moments for a demo for friends or something like that. It's not really worth having to deal with such large and heavy subs and pay so much money for something that will very infrequently be used. And those people who say you have to get enough displacement to pressurize the whole room sometimes don't realize that the listening positions are not going to be spread out over the entire room.

What if someone had like 24 eight inch subs. You could stack them like legos and build forts and mazes. LOL.

 

[Danzilla31]

Something else to consider is how loud does it really need to be? Yeah, you can get subs that will do 125dB at the listening position, but that very likely way outpaces the main speakers anyway. And you would rarely play it that loud, maybe for a few moments for a demo for friends or something like that. It's not really worth having to deal with such large and heavy subs and pay so much money for something that will very infrequently be used. And those people who say you have to get enough displacement to pressurize the whole room sometimes don't realize that the listening positions are not going to be spread out over the entire room.

I totally agree another reason why I'm glad I went with the PB4000's. Dual FV25HP's would have just been too much now I believe for the area I'm listening in. Wouldve been pretty frickin cool tho!

 

[snakeeyes]

I totally agree another reason why I'm glad I went with the PB4000's. Dual FV25HP's would have just been too much now I believe for the area I'm listening in. Wouldve been pretty frickin cool tho!

Why do I think somehow the subwoofer situation escalates again in a couple years at Danzilla’s stadium / living room? LOL.