Well I will NOT be buying Paradigm again.. You need to know

[Hawst]

Wow, how admirable! You guys are a class act. Sorry I am timid about the saying the brand. Its just they get no respect in the Hi-fi or HT community but when you set them up with the right equipement they shine really well (to me) and dont break the bank. I will say I did leave a hint in my last post intentionally when I said "keg party" as they are known to be party speakers 'that just make noise" as it is preached.

I will admit, I was worng in saying that as I also frequently read another site ecoustics and that is the site where you will be tared and feathered if you bring up that brand.

So, I was out of place to say that here on this forum as I just made the assumption this forum was the same.

Again, my bad and please forgive. its nice to see you guys actually allow freedom of brand choice here for matter of discussion.

/salute

We don't care what brand you're going to... nobody's censored here unless they spam/pimp their own site/company without our knowledge.

 

[emorphien]

So what brand is it then? Keg party could be a number of things IMO.

 

[Audioholics]

Cerwin Vega? I have no idea what brand is considered a party brand...

 

[billy p]

Cerwin Vega? I have no idea what brand is considered a party brand...

Well lets see, in school, party, 20yrs ago. If it's not the CV's then JBL's

PS: If I where in your shoes I'd be PO as well. Good luck!!

 

[emorphien]

I guess CV or JBL make sense, can't think of anything else.

 

[patnshan]

MTX or American Acoustics fits that bill as well. My best guess is Cerwin Vega as well.

Pat

 

[Hawst]

haha =)

I see I am not the only old timmer here that used to tear the houses down back in the day.

CVs it is - just ordered them. Grand total including shiping the 115lb each monstrosities was 890.00 So even if I dont like them - so what - they are cheap enough to replace again unlike my studio 100s.

They have been good enough to me in the past to earn my loyalty and I will give them another try and I can see some companies are clueless about appreciating or developing customer loyalty when they are in need of support.

CLSC-215s bi-amped with 2 old Yammie M-85 Amps into 6 ohms @ 295 rms watts per amp - 590 total per speaker which is just what the doctor orders for them.

Now lets see if we can piss of the neighborhood this New Years Eve and wake the dead

 

[Hawst]

I bet i am the first person on earth to go from CVs to Studios and back to CVs. Sounds funny even to me..

But there is something strangely exciting about blasting our Full Metal Jacket on this new setup that has a total of 6 - 15" subs, 10 - 6.6 midrange and 4 tweets - and thats not including my 4 boston surround speakers.

 

[emorphien]

If you're used to that, no wonder you blew out your Paradigms

 

[andy19191]

If the company you gave your money to is still trading then they are the people that will handle the warranty. The fact that they no longer carry the line is irrelevant, they took your money and so they sort out the warranty problems. The manufacturer is not directly involved.

As someone said earlier, if you bought from an unauthorised dealer then you have a problem because the manufacturer will almost certainly not work with that dealer to sort out the warranty issue. The dealer will have to look to whoever supplied the speakers and, possibly, so on down the chain. However, it is almost certain that the person/company directly supplied by the manufacturer broke an agreement not to supply to unauthorised dealers and so the manufacturer will almost certainly have no legal requirement to support the warranty.

In addition, blown tweeters are normally caused by user abuse and so you are likely to get a somewhat guarded response when trying to claim for a blown tweeter under warranty. Obviously I know nothing about the particular circumstances in this case and, for all I know, the design may have a known issue with tweeters.

 

[Hawst]

/sigh

Assumptions abound. Yes, I bought from an authorized dealer.

No, they no longer carry the line. No they will not accept them for warranty.

I ask you, if you buy a car from dealer XYZ and they go out of business or you need service while on vaction in other city - should you expect dealer ABC to service manufacturers DEF equipment because they both sell the same product from the same manufacturer?? Of course you should, any reputable manufacturer will work with ANY dealer to support the product thier customers purchased.

With Paradigm - NO!

Sorry I call this a big ole steaming pile of BS: "The manufacturer is not directly involved."
When your dealer is no longer avail it is in my opionion and experience for the manufacturer to immediaetly step up and support the product OR refer you to another dealer in the field to support you.

As far as abuse, I called them and asked what wattage would suit them best and I was told that my gained down to 50% @ 130w would be plenty of power and well within range for those speakers. I was even told that I could go a bit higher. Again, I called before I did anything to make sure as I was so paranoid in the first place to lay down so much cash for said speakers.

Please dont make assumptions here - but I understand if you "just want to make a statemet". But in your 3 paragraphs you state 3 reasons as to why they should NOT support thier product.

If in fact you do work for Paradigm, you should be ashamed of your support policy. If it werre not for your local field rep (and he even reps not only for you but other brands) that is not obligated to support me in any way shape or form - I would be out in the cold here with nothing but assumptions, excuses and accustaions as to why Paradigm should not support thier product someone paid them hard earned money for. This is really sad.

I have listed all facts - and I have also provided all informaiton for everyone here to call and explain my exact case to Paradigm to show everyone that yes they have a lousy support structure for a fairly expensive speaker.

They have no problem taking your money - but please dont come back if you need help!

If the company you gave your money to is still trading then they are the people that will handle the warranty. The fact that they no longer carry the line is irrelevant, they took your money and so they sort out the warranty problems. "The manufacturer is not directly involved."

As someone said earlier, if you bought from an unauthorised dealer then you have a problem because the manufacturer will almost certainly not work with that dealer to sort out the warranty issue. The dealer will have to look to whoever supplied the speakers and, possibly, so on down the chain. However, it is almost certain that the person/company directly supplied by the manufacturer broke an agreement not to supply to unauthorised dealers and so the manufacturer will almost certainly have no legal requirement to support the warranty.

In addition, blown tweeters are normally caused by user abuse and so you are likely to get a somewhat guarded response when trying to claim for a blown tweeter under warranty. Obviously I know nothing about the particular circumstances in this case and, for all I know, the design may have a known issue with tweeters.

 

[gene]

If in fact you do work for Paradigm, you should be ashamed of your support policy. If it werre not for your local field rep (and he even reps not only for you but other brands) that is not obligated to support me in any way shape or form - I would be out in the cold here with nothing but assumptions, excuses and accustaions as to why Paradigm should not support thier product someone paid them hard earned money for. This is really sad.

New Paradigm Secret Speakers

Why am I not surprised to see a thread like this once a year?

 

[Hawst]

Gene, I honestly dont know what you mean by that - however - if many others have had such a problem with getting a speaker supported then i cant see how they dont see the light and just support thier product..

Burn me once, shame on you, burn me twice shame on me - I wish had known there were others like me in the past. It could have save me a nice chunk of change.

Why am I not surprised to see a thread like this once a year?

 

[Duettadude]

Awww and here I thought you were getting Dogg Digital.

CV's are a good "party" speaker.

 

[andy19191]

> Yes, I bought from an authorized dealer.
> No, they no longer carry the line. No they will not accept them for
> warranty.

I am sure they do not want to deal with the warranty and will try to make you go away but they are almost certainly required to sort it out if you press them. The warranty small print should clarify the position. Everyone else including the manufacturer (probably - see small print) is fully entitled to tell you it is not their problem.

> I ask you, if you buy a car from dealer XYZ ...[]... any reputable
> manufacturer will work with ANY dealer to support the product thier
> customers purchased.

Hifi does not require regular servicing like cars and so the relationship between the manufacturer and dealer network is not the same. A more accurate comparison is with other forms of electrical goods. If they break you take them back to the shop you bought them from and they sort it out. Often this involves sending the kit off to mended somewhere but the legal responsibility lies with the shop that took your money.

> With Paradigm - NO!

The manufacturer may opt to sort things out to maintain goodwill but they are not required to do so (probably - see small print). Only the dealer you bought from is likely to be required to sort it out. Given that you are asking to replace a blown tweeter I am not surprised that you are getting somewhat evasive responses.

> When your dealer is no longer avail it is in my opionion and experience for
> the manufacturer to immediaetly step up and support the product OR refer
> you to another dealer in the field to support you.

But the dealer is still available so your point makes little sense.

The dealer has received payment for being the first point of contact for sorting out warranty issues in his mark up. Interacting with customer is one of the services a dealer offers a manufacturer/distributor. It does not end if the dealer decides to drop the line but when the warranty period ends on the goods that they have sold.

> As far as abuse, ...[]...

You were not accused. I was simply telling you how blown tweeters are viewed and why the people you have approached may not be rushing to sort out your warranty claim.

> Please dont make assumptions here

I made no assumptions that were not clearly stated as such and might follow from what you had written. Since you did not take the speakers back to your dealer I suspect quite a few readers will have assumed the dealer was unauthorised which is almost certainly the commonest reason for warranty problems like yours.

> - but I understand if you "just want to make a statemet".

A statement about what? I was simply passing on a couple of pieces of information you did not appear to know about dealers responsibilities and why fried tweeters and viewed with some suspicion on warranty claims.

> If in fact you do work for Paradigm, ...[]...

Chortle. Now there are making assumptions and making assumptions.

> They have no problem taking your money - but please dont come back if
> you need help!

The dealer took your money not the manufacturer. So get the dealer to sort it out.

 

[Hawst]

Andy, Listen they were bought out of Maine. I now live in Texas. Sure its easy to say "take them back to your dealer" but I am not driving to Maine.

Lastly, i respect your view but I entirely disagree with you about warranty support.
My example: I recently had a Toshiba laptop go bad - I bought it from CompUSA. In my experience it is better NOT to let those monkeys handle it. So I called Toshiba and I shipped it directly to them - they refurbed it and sent it back.

I can give you endless "electronic equipment" examples of manufacturers properly supporting thier products even though purchaed through a dealer. Granted they are computer industry related but electronic non the less.

Bottom line this company is skirting the issue period. Justify it how you wish with whatever way you want - but in the end I paid money - speakers are stated to have a 5 yr warranty - but the people who make them dont support them and then it gets worse when you didnt buy from a dealer in your area because you didnt have one when you bought them. Sure NOW I have one but its after the fact. And now Paradigms position is i MUST work with them and since I didnt buy from them i am out of luck as no one has any obligation.

Its all BS really - support what you make and earn deserved respect. I cant wait to get these out my sight as they are an eye sore now.

 

[Hawst]

I just cant see for the life of me why Paradigm cant allow me to ship them my bad tweeter - refurb it and send it back. Maybe I am just crazy or I have entered into the Hi-fi 3rd deminsion and didnt know it but this is some padded wall mentality if you ask me.

 

[audiofox]

To me, this is less of a logic argument (ie, they should because they are the mfr OR they souldn't because you bought it from an online dealer, etc, etc, etc) than it is a business decision-there are lots of products that have crappy mfr support, but because they sell like hotcakes, the mfr can afford to ignore the impacts (at least on a short term basis) without impacting their bottom line. However, Paradigm does not exactly have a lock on the high end speaker market-in fact, they have A LOT of competition for a relatively small market, which will eventually be the factor that forces them to deal with their apparent low quality customer support problems. No business is altruistic (ie, providing CS because it is the right thing to do) or clueless (ie, ignoring the long term impacts of short sighted decisions) for very long-that is the beauty and the curse of a free marketplace. This sounds like a classic case of the bean counters having too much say in the CS arena-they are probably looking only at the cost of the CS and warranty claims and not the long term impacts of their decisions on future sales.

BTW, you may want to contact your attorney general's office in your state and get guidance on implied warranties-I'm pretty sure that in California, there is a minimum set of requirements for all product warranties that overrides the legalese on the warranty card and requires the manufacturer to stand behind their products at some reasonable level (which definitely applies here, IMHO). Armed with that info, a letter pointing out the legal requirements and their disconnects with those requirements might get you some action (assuming that you have exhausted all other possibilities). Before you do that, you should escalate this issue as high as possible-the higher you go, the more likely you will find someone that does understand the negative impacts of jerking around existing customers and is willing to do something about it.

As for me, I use my feet and my wallet to convey the message to companies that don't provide products or services to my satisfaction, and I would recommend that you do the same.

 

[Kai]

I am a big fan of Paradigm and have had no problems with my varied speakers even at near ear bleeding levels of AC/DC.
But if I was Hawst I too would be rather unhappy with the situation he became involved in.
However I would have handled it a bit differently after dealing with "Gary"...seems every company has a "Gary" in it...I would have gone to his boss and so on until I got satisfaction. I have always asked for and gotten names, titles and phone numbers of all I dealt with and notify each that as I collect data it will all go to my and their local attorney general's office in the form of a complaint. Cripes Studio's are costly speakers, they should have had them sent back and repaired the damage without a peep. If they determine they were caused by user abuse they could always send you a bill prior to shipping then you could have fought that battle out but to say you are SOL is just not right.

I prefer to think it was a one time problem with a bonehead employee rather than Paradigm policy but I would follow it up with a letter to one of the big shots at Paradigm describing the problem, how it was handled and how it was resolved. I would also tell them I posted my experience on the forums, and name them, that I participate in. A kind word may fade away but a bad reputation lasts a long, long time.

Good luck Hawst,
Kai

 

[PENG]

I just cant see for the life of me why Paradigm cant allow me to ship them my bad tweeter - refurb it and send it back. Maybe I am just crazy or I have entered into the Hi-fi 3rd deminsion and didnt know it but this is some padded wall mentality if you ask me.

If people made assumptions, you should ignore them. Based on your account of events, I don't understand why some people would argue otherwise. You may want to consider Energy next time, another Canadian company that make nice speakers but provide great customer support. That said, I almost bought a pair of Paradigm Signature series speakers myself. They do sound decent, but they are not the only Canadian manufacturer that knows how to make great speakers.