Wanting to bi-amp, looking at Crown XLS, but...

[Irvrobinson]

Crown XLS-1000

Pros:

Power, power, POWER!
Handles current peaks with aplomb
Never ran warm at all
Extremely impressive array of configuration options
Easy to follow, no-nonsense owner’s manual
Gain Level knobs have detents for precise balancing
Level and clipping indicators
Lightweight (you pay dollars per watt instead of dollars per pound)
Balanced and unbalanced inputs
Unreal value compared to “hi-fi” amplifiers

Cons:

The temptation is great to buy a second one and biamp with XOVER mode!
I keep staring at the level indicators (SQUIRREL!)
(All these below are attributed to its intended PA purpose, but still should be mentioned)
I have dust concerns with the fan and back-to-front airflow design
Function over form: it’s not a looker; “Plasticy” faceplate and controls may wrongfully imply cheapness to some
High input sensitivity may have to be taken into consideration if used with home audio sources (fixed with the gen 2 XLS series)

If input sensitivity is really an issue, with any component, you can buy XLR or RCA line-level attenuators. Parts Express sells them.

 

[Kvn_Walker]

If input sensitivity is really an issue, with any component, you can buy XLR or RCA line-level attenuators. Parts Express sells them.

I'm sure those complaints were the opposite where the source device output wasn't adequate for this unit.

Two of the negative reviews on Amazon: "This amp needs an amp! Maybe my unit was defective." "Very disappointed and return it back. I bought it to handle my Polk audio Rti12 front speakers. My Yamaha RX-A840 handle those speakers batter than this amplifier.."

Most likely a preamp wasn't used in either of those cases. I sarcastically lined through "gain" because those are 0-100% level controls whereas some might think they are volume knobs and don't understand why they aren't getting blown away by an amp with that power rating.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I'm sure those complaints were the opposite where the source device output wasn't adequate for this unit.

Two of the negative reviews on Amazon: "This amp needs an amp! Maybe my unit was defective." "Very disappointed and return it back. I bought it to handle my Polk audio Rti12 front speakers. My Yamaha RX-A840 handle those speakers batter than this amplifier.."

Most likely a preamp wasn't used in either of those cases. I sarcastically lined through "gain" because those are 0-100% level controls whereas some might think they are volume knobs and don't understand why they aren't getting blown away by an amp with that power rating.

Maybe, but the post I responded to said "high input sensitivity".

 

[Verdinut]

I will post a summary of my time with these amps later, but here are my pros and cons. Sound-wise, my ears never told me that one sounded “better” than the others. The biggest issue was headroom, and how bass notes would suck all the Yamaha’s power away at volume. Both the Crown and the dual Outlaws solved that problem easily. You’ll notice the majority of my notes are aesthetic (except for power and thermals). The higher input sensitivity of the Crown and Outlaw weren’t an issue with the Xonar sound card, and I’m sure most preamps would do fine as well. I’ve read negative buyer reviews of people complaining that they “could barely hear” the XLS1000’s, and I’m certain in those cases they weren’t matching it with the right source. Always something to consider.



Yamaha AX-596

Pros:

Beautiful, “traditional” look
Solid build, long-term reliability
Allows bypassing tone controls
The best speaker wire terminals I’ve ever used
100wpc into 8 ohms is more than enough power for most situations

Cons:

100wpc is not enough power for my situation
Gets a bit warm after extended listening sessions at volume
Pricey when new

Crown XLS-1000

Pros:

Power, power, POWER!
Handles current peaks with aplomb
Never ran warm at all
Extremely impressive array of configuration options
Easy to follow, no-nonsense owner’s manual
Gain Level knobs have detents for precise balancing
Level and clipping indicators
Lightweight (you pay dollars per watt instead of dollars per pound)
Balanced and unbalanced inputs
Unreal value compared to “hi-fi” amplifiers

Cons:

The temptation is great to buy a second one and biamp with XOVER mode!
I keep staring at the level indicators (SQUIRREL!)
(All these below are attributed to its intended PA purpose, but still should be mentioned)
I have dust concerns with the fan and back-to-front airflow design
Function over form: it’s not a looker; “Plasticy” faceplate and controls may wrongfully imply cheapness to some
High input sensitivity may have to be taken into consideration if used with home audio sources (fixed with the gen 2 XLS series)

Outlaw 2200 dual monoblocks

Pros:

P.O.W.E.R. for days
Slim and unobtrusive; their looks hide their beastliness from the unwary
Soft, pleasant LED power/standby indicators
Run cooler than the Yamaha under extended load, even with more power
XLR and RCA inputs

Cons:

Power switch on rear of unit (would be a total pain with a large stack)
No gain level controls
Form over function: compared to the Crown, lacking the value quotient
Can’t match the Crown’s power efficiency; I can dim the lights in the room if I play loud enough

FYI, Volume or Gain control are the same. They have identical functions. On some other websites, they say otherwise but they don't know what they're talking about.

 

[lovinthehd]

Maybe, but the post I responded to said "high input sensitivity".

Had me scratching my head but I'm on my first coffee, too. If the amps have high input sensitivity compared to the preamp, why would you suggest to attenuate the input?

 

[Irvrobinson]

Had me scratching my head but I'm on my first coffee, too. If the amps have high input sensitivity compared to the preamp, why would you suggest to attenuate the input?

Input overload. I've never seen it happen with a pro amp, but I have no home audio experience with the Crowns (only sound reinforcement). I thought most pro amps have low input sensitivity not high sensitivity, so I was scratching my head too. But if high sensitivity is an issue the attenuators work. I use them with my sub, which has much higher input sensitivity than my amp. I use a split full-range signal to the sub, and it's input does indeed overload when paired on balanced inputs with the low-sensitivity ATI.

 

[lovinthehd]

Input overload. I've never seen it happen with a pro amp, but I have no home audio experience with the Crowns (only sound reinforcement). I thought most pro amps have low input sensitivity not high sensitivity, so I was scratching my head too. But if high sensitivity is an issue the attenuators work. I use them with my sub, which has much higher input sensitivity than my amp. I use a split full-range signal to the sub, and it's input does indeed overload when paired on balanced inputs with the low-sensitivity ATI.

I was thinking in terms of the amp sensitivity voltage figure being higher, which in terms of the actual word sensitivity is backwards. First cup of coffee....

 

[Kvn_Walker]

FYI, Volume or Gain control are the same. They have identical functions. On some other websites, they say otherwise but they don't know what they're talking about.

Heh, I know this. But neither is the same as a Level control. The Crown isn't an integrated amp. My whole point was that some of the negative reviews were probably attributed to buyers thinking the Level controls were gain/volume and then being underwhelmed when they "cranked it up" using home audio components with no preamp in the chain.

 

[Verdinut]

Heh, I know this. But neither is the same as a Level control. The Crown isn't an integrated amp. My whole point was that some of the negative reviews were probably attributed to buyers thinking the Level controls were gain/volume and then being underwhelmed when they "cranked it up" using home audio components with no preamp in the chain.

I don't understand your point. If you use an audiophile power amp with a, call it what you want, level/volume/gain control, you will have the same problem as with the pro power amp, if you try to drive it with a low voltage source such as a moving magnet or moving coil cartridge. Those are all sensitivity controls.

 

[lovinthehd]

I don't understand your point. If you use an audiophile power amp with a, call it what you want, level/volume/gain control, you will have the same problem as with the pro power amp, if you try to drive it with a low voltage source such as a moving magnet or moving coil cartridge. Those are all sensitivity controls.

I think it more relates to the hesitation by many to turn the "volume" to the full position as on many systems this simply doesn't work out well....

 

[Verdinut]

A lot of audiophile power amps don't have any volume/gain control on them whereas all pro power amps have one.

 

[KEW]

Outlaw 2200 dual monoblocks

Cons:
Power switch on rear of unit (would be a total pain with a large stack)

I think the intent is to use the 12 V trigger to turn them on, but if you are using a PC, I guess they don't have trigger connections. I wonder if Parts Express sells a little switch box with a 12V trigger output?
Have you tried the music sensing mode to turn it on?

 

[everettT]

Find out from Outlaw what the voltage required to trigger is. There are plenty of power options on a computer.
Do you power up the computer each use or always on?

 

[Kvn_Walker]

How did we get here? I've had no problem with running any of these with my PC. I was only explaining why I think some folks who left bad reviews did so.

I do have the Outlaws set to music trigger and that works great. They stay on at all times and go into sleep mode after 10 or 12 minutes of inactivity.

My "cons" listed above... some were just observations that I could see others having an issue with. They weren't all strictly negatives from my personal point of view. Sorry for not clarifying that in advance.