Wall mounting bookshelf speakers - 3/8-16 threaded insert at bottom rather than top

G

grodzki

Audioholic Intern
Hello. I'm awaiting the arrival of a pair of Klipsch RP-400M bookshelf speakers which I will wall mount as surrounds. There's two options at the back of the cabinet for wall mounting: a keyhole at the top, and a threaded insert at the bottom. It seems that using the threaded insert, even with a smaller 9 pound speaker, would put undue cantilevered force on the wall bracket. Does anyone have any experience with such an installation? Are they expecting it to be installed upside-down?
 

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WaynePflughaupt

WaynePflughaupt

Audioholic Samurai
Are they expecting it to be installed upside-down?
Don't know if it's Klipsch's intent, but speakers mounted up on the wall should indeed be inverted. This puts the tweeter closer to ear level.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Hello. I'm awaiting the arrival of a pair of Klipsch RP-400M bookshelf speakers which I will wall mount as surrounds. There's two options at the back of the cabinet for wall mounting: a keyhole at the top, and a threaded insert at the bottom. It seems that using the threaded insert, even with a smaller 9 pound speaker, would put undue cantilevered force on the wall bracket. Does anyone have any experience with such an installation? Are they expecting it to be installed upside-down?
You can not mount them upside down. Speakers are pretty heavy. If you are going to use a screw, then you had better find a stud, if you don't want to repair sheet rock. Those swivel mounting brackets are useless.

When I did an installation for some one and they wanted wall mounted surrounds, I made aluminum brackets from 1" angle stock. Screwed them to the 4 X 4 s and screwed the speakers to the brackets top and bottom.

The other thing you can do is build a shelf for it screwed to the 4 x 4s. That is probably the neatest and is very safe. Like in the picture below.



Speakers are heavy and you have to be careful wall mounting them.
 
G

grodzki

Audioholic Intern
Don't know if it's Klipsch's intent, but speakers mounted up on the wall should indeed be inverted. This puts the tweeter closer to ear level.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt
They why the keyhole mount at the top of the cabinet? That can only be for wall mounting, and puts the tweeter on top. I'm not arguing, just confused.
 
G

grodzki

Audioholic Intern
You can not mount them upside down. Speakers are pretty heavy. If you are going to use a screw, then you had better find a stud, if you don't want to repair sheet rock. Those swivel mounting brackets are useless.

When I did an installation for some one and they wanted wall mounted surrounds, I made aluminum brackets from 1" angle stock. Screwed them to the 4 X 4 s and screwed the speakers to the brackets top and bottom.

The other thing you can do is build a shelf for it screwed to the 4 x 4s. That is probably the neatest and is very safe. Like in the picture below.



Speakers are heavy and you have to be careful wall mounting them.
Much appreciated. These speakers are little guys, only 9 lbs, and I'm comfortable with an off the shelf swivel mount. These are what I've ordered (attached). My concern now is finding studs in my lathe and plaster walls (circa 1906), which is always an exciting challenge. Failing that, it will have to be expanding anchor bolts.

I'll do a trial run in the unfinished garage where I can see the studs to test the mounts. I'm still not sure whether I trust the threaded connection at the bottom of the speaker (attached). Seems counter intuitive.
 

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ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
How heavy are the speakers?

There are a significant amount of wall mounts available on the market, from Cr@p-@$$-cheap sh!t to a Hundy per speaker and more.

K&M make very nice mounts that are expensive, but if installed properly can support a lot of weight. Some good designs also have clamping grips that will hold a speaker from the bottom and allow you to swivel and tilt.

Beyond everything else... as mentioned above, a combination of Wall Stud with Lag screw and good quality anchors is important.

Regarding the orientation of the speaker and potentially inverting it...
You need to know whether the speaker produces a tilted FR on the vertical access... A 2nd or 4th order XO is usually safe (maybe), but 1st or 3rd orders tend to tilt the FR, for example. This can be a serious rabbit hole fraught with thickets and other issues. :eek:
Unless you know for certain, it is safer to not play those reindeer games. :)
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
If the mount says its good for the load (double it, at least, to be safe), and you speaker manual says mounting it that way is acceptable, then you should be fine.
Just make certain your installation of the mount is solid and secure!
 
G

grodzki

Audioholic Intern
How heavy are the speakers?

There are a significant amount of wall mounts available on the market, from Cr@p-@$$-cheap sh!t to a Hundy per speaker and more.

K&M make very nice mounts that are expensive, but if installed properly can support a lot of weight. Some good designs also have clamping grips that will hold a speaker from the bottom and allow you to swivel and tilt.

Beyond everything else... as mentioned above, a combination of Wall Stud with Lag screw and good quality anchors is important.

Regarding the orientation of the speaker and potentially inverting it...
You need to know whether the speaker produces a tilted FR on the vertical access... A 2nd or 4th order XO is usually safe (maybe), but 1st or 3rd orders tend to tilt the FR, for example. This can be a serious rabbit hole fraught with thickets and other issues. :eek:
Unless you know for certain, it is safer to not play those reindeer games. :)
These are 9 lb speakers, ryanosaur. I have a huge pile of various lag bolts, toggle bolts, expanding anchors, etc. from various shelving projects (of varying degrees of success). Damned lathe and plaster.

I'm embarrassed to say you lost me with your FR and XO rabbit hole warnings. I'm still a AV newbie.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Are your speakers the RP-400M bookshelf speakers, or the RP-402S surround speakers? Your post says RP-400M, but the diagram you attached shows the back of the RP-402S.

Here is the diagram for the RP-400M as seen on page 5 of the owner's manual. It shows only the keyhole mount on top.

1596064939825.png


On that same page, to the right, is a diagram of the back of the RP-402S, with both the keyhole bracket near the top, and the threaded insert near the bottom.
1596065187356.png
 
G

grodzki

Audioholic Intern

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ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
I'm embarrassed to say you lost me with your FR and XO rabbit hole warnings. I'm still a AV newbie.
Don't be embarrassed. There is a lot to learn out there, and there is NOTHING wrong with not knowing something. I know enough about speaker design, perhaps, to be dangerous... @TLS Guy is a very experienced designer and builder. My counterpoint to his comments were based on conversation with another skilled designer.
The warning remains, though... unless you know much more about the actual design of the speaker, it is best not to invert it. ;)
 
G

grodzki

Audioholic Intern
Don't be embarrassed. There is a lot to learn out there, and there is NOTHING wrong with not knowing something. I know enough about speaker design, perhaps, to be dangerous... @TLS Guy is a very experienced designer and builder. My counterpoint to his comments were based on conversation with another skilled designer.
The warning remains, though... unless you know much more about the actual design of the speaker, it is best not to invert it. ;)
Thanks. My fondest wish is to not invert them. That, and to not completely destroy my walls. The Wife is actually pushing for wall mounting rather than the speaker stands I have supporting our current surrounds.
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
This is an early Wall Mount project when I first set up my room:
These are Konig&Meyer wall mounts. I could probably do chin ups off of these if I was in shape! (Not the speakers, mind... just the wall mounts!) :p
 
G

grodzki

Audioholic Intern
Thanks. My fondest wish is to not invert them. That, and to not completely destroy my walls. The Wife is actually pushing for wall mounting rather than the speaker stands I have supporting our current surrounds.
This is an early Wall Mount project when I first set up my room:
These are Konig&Meyer wall mounts. I could probably do chin ups off of these if I was in shape! (Not the speakers, mind... just the wall mounts!) :p
Holy cow, those look serious. Good for you!
 
ryanosaur

ryanosaur

Audioholic Ninja
This is an updated photo of the current speaker positioned on those mounts:


These are my Rears, and I did need to mount them high above a closet. A crafty eye will notice the cables are plugged in at the top! (What could that mean? ;) )


Sent from a handheld device using a silly little app.
 
Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
Thanks, Swerd. I worried that might confuse the issue. I've ordered the RP-400Ms, but you can see from the photos on the Klipsch site that they both have the threaded insert.
So your new RP-400Ms have both the keyhole and the threaded insert? If so, I think one or the other is meant to be used.

Use the keyhole to hang a speaker from a screw driven into a wood stud.

Or, use the threaded insert to attach the speaker to a wall bracket such as you mentioned. Be sure to mount that bracket to a wood stud and not to wall with hollow space behind it.

Do not try to hang it upside down. Keep the tweeter on top, and the much heavier woofer below.

At 9 lbs, that speaker is light. You have a wide choice of wall hanging hardware to choose from.
 
G

grodzki

Audioholic Intern
So your new RP-400Ms have both the keyhole and the threaded insert? If so, I think one or the other is meant to be used.

Use the keyhole to hang a speaker from a screw driven into a wood stud.

Or, use the threaded insert to attach the speaker to a wall bracket such as you mentioned. Be sure to mount that bracket to a wood stud and not to wall with hollow space behind it.

Do not try to hang it upside down. Keep the tweeter on top, and the much heavier woofer below.

At 9 lbs, that speaker is light. You have a wide choice of wall hanging hardware to choose from.
The speakers haven't been delivered yet, but I'm 99% sure they will have both the keyhole and threaded insert. I'll be using the attached ball/socket mount and trying the threaded approach first. I've found the stud on my left-hand wall, but the one on the right-hand wall is eluding me during my initial explorations. Might come down to crossing my fingers and drilling exploratory holes with my smallest bit. Lathe and plaster walls are a major pain.
 

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Swerd

Swerd

Audioholic Spartan
The speakers haven't been delivered yet, but I'm 99% sure they will have both the keyhole and threaded insert. I'll be using the attached ball/socket mount and trying the threaded approach first. I've found the stud on my left-hand wall, but the one on the right-hand wall is eluding me during my initial explorations. Might come down to crossing my fingers and drilling exploratory holes with my smallest bit. Lathe and plaster walls are a major pain.
I've faced similar problems in the past. When you can't find a wall stud where you need it, try this instead. Get some wood, poplar, oak, or plywood (paint it later), 1" or ¾" thick, about 4" or 5" wide, and what ever length works for your ball/socket mount. Attach the wood to the wall using two of what ever hardware works best for lathe & plaster. Then attach the ball/socket mount to the wood with wood screws.
 
everettT

everettT

Audioholic Ninja
I use these all the time. Rated up to 80# they make 3 or 4 different weight classes.
 
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