Vibration dampening: Snake Oil?

D

davo

Full Audioholic
I personally don't think there is anything wrong with been mindful of excessive vibrations going through your equipment, not for audio differences, but to improve the life span of the equipment itself.
Some components get pretty hot, and if you run a minute vibration through it for 3 hours a day for 3 years something is more likely to give than the same gear with no vibrations.

Not to say that it won't happen (hasn't happened to me yet), but fatigue due to vibrations is a real problem in many areas.
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
but fatigue due to vibrations is a real problem in many areas.
Yes, vibration can cause issues over time. But, always a but, how much does your component picks up from airborne sound alone? I bet you will be hard pressed to measure it. I wonder why the passive filters in speakers don't fail before your receiver's circuit board might? After all, it is in constant motion most likely being in the speaker enclosure itself:D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
I've installed Bilstein shocks on all my gear, it's so smooth now I can hear all the details up to 45,000 KHz, amazing what good dampening can do.
Try two layers. I bet you will get up to 90k :D
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Pardon my ignorance, but what would be credible evidence in this case? It seems you don't consider the many positive experiences reported by people who use them to be credible.
Yep, you are right, it is so far from being credible that I need a telescope.
Perhaps if you accept positive experiences, then you will acceptance of psychic abilities? Homeopathic medicines? Astrology? Alien abductions? There are loads of positive experiences reported for these as well. The list is endless, really.

Credible is something you can replicate, bias controlled and has statistically significant outcome. Yours, all those others are biased, uncontrolled listening experiences. You know, stories, testimonials I read for products. :eek:

How do you measure the difference a product like this contributes (or doesn't) to the audible sound, and how can you be sure how that measurement will translate audibly to a person's ear?
Well, firstly, we could conduct some bias controlled listening experiments with and randomly without those pads under components and you can be the judge on how many correctly guessed outcome happens. Anything not considered significant outcome is just guessing. That simple. Then, one can measure FR and levels to start with? But the listening test will tell the story. My bet is guessing will be the outcome.

At the end of the day, I'd like to think that I can have a reasonable amount of trust when it comes to (subjective) perceptions of audio quality in what my own two ears hear, just as I think I can have a reasonable amount of trust in what in my own two eyes see when it comes down to video quality (what looks good to my eyes).
Why is that? How did you earn your exemption from bias to be trusted for audible differences between components or that isolation pad? Or, anyone for that matter? Besides, perception doesn't guarantee real events. Not interested in imagined ones.
Same with eyes. My experience with that 5gal bucket of water and a steel pipe is not reality, but an illusion. Why would I trust what I see happening to that steel pipe in that bucket of water? Or, why would I believe or trust my eyes watching Uri Geller, or David Copperfield, for that matter?
How about that parallax view? What is reality? All cannot be real, can it?

I've heard my share of different audio gear and some has sounded better to me than others. I'd hate to think that I can't trust any of my perceptions when it comes down to auditioning audio gear,
That depends on what you are after. A personal preference, or reality of audible differences. If the former, have at it, disregard everything I have written, just be careful about making testable claims about audible differences that you are making. If the latter, then you need different protocols, bias controlled, levels matched testing. Incontestable.




that I can't trust my perceptions enough to allow myself to enjoy the improvement I think my ears hear in a certain audio component just because someone conducted an experiment that says I shouldn't hear any difference at all.
If you want personal enjoyment, you don't need any one's input; listen and just enjoy, real or imagined. As to experiments, I wonder why anyone conducts experiments then.

Again, I'm not saying that we should buy everything everyone tries to sell us, but what is the use of equipment reviews if ultimately we can't trust the perceptions of a good number of people?
Whom do you want to trust and Why? How do you know they are reliable, objective and not biased? What tests have they passed or proven themselves?
Well, need to be very, very careful and how far.

Anyway, as I stated above, in the end for me it comes down to what sounds good to my ears, and the vibrapods sound good to my ears.

then just enjoy. That is all there is to it.:D
 
A

AdrianMills

Full Audioholic
Leetamm,

what you and most other people don't seem to realize is how prone we all are to subconscious biases. This is not something that's possible to control although some people seem to be more excessively influenced than others. Even those of us that claim to be objectivists/skeptics/critical thinkers are not immune no matter how hard we try to be.

I've read several cases where in pretesting for DBT people are allowed sighted trails of equipment and the skeptics have been shocked to hear differences that they "didn't expect" only for those differences to vanish in blinded conditions. You can read about one such recent experience here, "Observations of a controlled cable test". Although the test was, IMO, a bit of a waste of time when it came to proving anything, it did highlight the effect of expectation bias - the most telling was the effect the test had on Chris' who even says he's "fairly objective".

The trouble with the beneficial claims of vibrapods on SS devices is that, like the claims made about cables, they don't seem to tally with known science and there is no credible evidence to suggest that they do anything at all. Sure, if you have a turntable I'm sure they'll work wonders, otherwise, well, it really is all in your head.

And please, don't take that as an insult as we all delude ourselves in many different ways, it's a part of being human; the trick is to realize this and to react accordingly.


Pardon my ignorance, but what would be credible evidence in this case? It seems you don't consider the many positive experiences reported by people who use them to be credible. How do you measure the difference a product like this contributes (or doesn't) to the audible sound, and how can you be sure how that measurement will translate audibly to a person's ear?

At the end of the day, I'd like to think that I can have a reasonable amount of trust when it comes to (subjective) perceptions of audio quality in what my own two ears hear, just as I think I can have a reasonable amount of trust in what in my own two eyes see when it comes down to video quality (what looks good to my eyes).

I've heard my share of different audio gear and some has sounded better to me than others. I'd hate to think that I can't trust any of my perceptions when it comes down to auditioning audio gear, or that I can't trust my perceptions enough to allow myself to enjoy the improvement I think my ears hear in a certain audio component just because someone conducted an experiment that says I shouldn't hear any difference at all.

Again, I'm not saying that we should buy everything everyone tries to sell us, but what is the use of equipment reviews if ultimately we can't trust the perceptions of a good number of people?

Anyway, as I stated above, in the end for me it comes down to what sounds good to my ears, and the vibrapods sound good to my ears.
 
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