Vibration dampening: Snake Oil?

[Geno]

Along with the snake-oil cables, Machina Dynamica wierdness, and other tweeks, I see an awful lot of vibration dampening products. Some of these things are relatively sane, like sobathane feet for turntables, etc., but some are , to me, entering into the wacko side. Does anyone out there have any info in the effects of vibration on sound from solid-state devices like amps, CD players? I have a hard time believing that microphonic effects would be audible with these kinds of devices.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Massive amounts of vibration could have an effect. Ordinary levels of vibration cannot.

 

[j_garcia]

On an amp, vibraton would seem to be almost meaningless. To a CD player however, it may have more of an effect, though I think even average players have reached the level at this point where vibration is also not a huge concern.

 

[jcPanny]

Vibration dampening

If the CD player in your car can continue to read the 1's and 0's while you drive down the road, then I would not worry about the stationary one in your equipment rack.

 

[leetamm]

I'm sold on Vibrapods

After reading a lot of positive reviews of the Vibrapods, I decided to give them a shot with my Oppo because they're relatively cheap (I think I paid around $24 for a set of 4). I was quite pleasantly surprised by how much improvement I heard, specifically more detail resolution, because I didn't expect much if anything. I will be getting some to put under my SACD player after Christmas.

Not long after I got the Vibrapods, I decided to run a dedicated 15A circuit for my system along with a hospital-grade receptacle. In that case, I didn't hear nearly as much improvement as I had expected. It was very subtle to my ears.

Anyway, just two examples of how my expectations were upended by actual experience. Of course, YMMV.

 

[tbewick]

Along with the snake-oil cables, Machina Dynamica wierdness, and other tweeks, I see an awful lot of vibration dampening products. Some of these things are relatively sane, like sobathane feet for turntables, etc., but some are , to me, entering into the wacko side. Does anyone out there have any info in the effects of vibration on sound from solid-state devices like amps, CD players? I have a hard time believing that microphonic effects would be audible with these kinds of devices.

Douglas Self has commented on amplifiers and vibration:

' "Microphony is an important factor in the sound of an amplifier, so any attempt at vibration-damping is a good idea."

Microphony is essentially something that happens in sensitive valve preamplifiers. If it happens in solid-state power amplifiers the level is so far below the noise it is effectively non-existent.

Experiments on this sort of thing are rare (if not unheard of) and so I offer the only scrap of evidence I have. Take a microphone preamp operating at a gain of +70 dB, and tap the input capacitors (assumed electrolytic) sharply with a screwdriver; the preamp output will be dull thump, at low level. The physical impact on the electrolytics (the only components that show this effect) is hugely greater than that of any acoustic vibration; and I think the effect in power amps, if any, must be so vanishingly small that it could never be found under the inherent circuit noise.'

'Science and Subjectivism in Audio'.
http://www.dself.dsl.pipex.com/ampins/pseudo/subjectv.htm

 

[mtrycrafts]

... I decided to give them a shot with my Oppo because they're relatively cheap (I think I paid around $24 for a set of 4). I was quite pleasantly surprised by how much improvement I heard, specifically more detail resolution, because I didn't expect much if anything. I will be getting some to put under my SACD player after Christmas.

Not long after I got the Vibrapods, I decided to run a dedicated 15A circuit for my system along with a hospital-grade receptacle. In that case, I didn't hear nearly as much improvement as I had expected. It was very subtle to my ears.

Anyway, just two examples of how my expectations were upended by actual experience. Of course, YMMV.

Well, I am more than skeptical about your perceptions. If that Oppo didn't skip, no reason for an audible difference, nor will there be with the SACD. And, that hospital grade receptacle is another absurd voodoo audio upgrade, unless your old plug is so loose that the plug just falls right out; however, $2 plugs are tight enough.
My first hand, personal experience with a 5 gal bucket of water and a steel pipe is also amazing. The water seems to bend it and the air seems to straighten it right out. WOW.

 

[Seth=L]

After reading a lot of positive reviews of the Vibrapods, I decided to give them a shot with my Oppo because they're relatively cheap (I think I paid around $24 for a set of 4). I was quite pleasantly surprised by how much improvement I heard, specifically more detail resolution, because I didn't expect much if anything. I will be getting some to put under my SACD player after Christmas.

Not long after I got the Vibrapods, I decided to run a dedicated 15A circuit for my system along with a hospital-grade receptacle. In that case, I didn't hear nearly as much improvement as I had expected. It was very subtle to my ears.

Anyway, just two examples of how my expectations were upended by actual experience. Of course, YMMV.

Ha ha, LOL.

 

[Geno]

Well, I am more than skeptical about your perceptions. If that Oppo didn't skip, no reason for an audible difference, nor will there be with the SACD. And, that hospital grade receptacle is another absurd voodoo audio upgrade, unless your old plug is so loose that the plug just falls right out; however, $2 plugs are tight enough.
My first hand, personal experience with a 5 gal bucket of water and a steel pipe is also amazing. The water seems to bend it and the air seems to straighten it right out. WOW.

I heard that if you put the water in a jar of Brilliant Pebbles before pouring it into the bucket, you'll see a 12% increase in pipe bending

 

[mtrycrafts]

I heard that if you put the water in a jar of Brilliant Pebbles before pouring it into the bucket, you'll see a 12% increase in pipe bending

I need to start measuring but I need a precision compass first

 

[fmw]

I use vibrapods under my DirecTV receiver. That stopped it from buzzing which, I assume, was due to a noisy transformer vibrating the unit against the shelf it sits on.

Putting them under a component to improve sound, however, would be more in the realm of audiophile tweaking than audible improvements in sound. If you want sonic improvements, work on the listening room itself. That's where most of the sound quality of your system is.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Ha ha, LOL.

Agreed. That is pretty funny.

 

[davidtwotrees]

I use vibrapods under my DirecTV receiver. That stopped it from buzzing ........

Oh, man......my escient fireball buzzes on my glass shelved rack from the fan running in it......I might give the vibrapods a try.........
On another note, YBA is very concerned with vibration dampening in all their components, and also reccomend not using glass shelved racks for any of your components.......not sure what the "science" is......wish someone had some insight other than saying it is voodoo......

 

[emorphien]

It makes sense on a turntable, but on solid state electronics I can't imagine any particular benefit unless something is rattling around or buzzing (like fans, etc).

 

[mtrycrafts]

Oh, man......my escient fireball buzzes on my glass shelved rack from the fan running in it......I might give the vibrapods a try.........
On another note, YBA is very concerned with vibration dampening in all their components, and also reccomend not using glass shelved racks for any of your components.......not sure what the "science" is......wish someone had some insight other than saying it is voodoo......

What can possibly happen when you vibrate wire? Or a circuit board, outside of failure?
You are not moving a needle around a vinyl that tries to reproduce the grove waves, or a tube where you are moving the delicate innards of the tube that is in direct involvement of electron flow.

Ken Pholmann did an experiment with a CD player
Pholmann, Ken C., "CD Magic" Stereo Review, July 91, pg 39-42.

where he placed it on a sub or speaker playing at 120dB, measured the signal. No change.

By the way, check with some other makers, Bryston for instance, and see what they say about vibration. Maybe YBA is catering to the hi-end too much.

 

[leetamm]

I appreciate the skepticism. As I stated, I was skeptical too. It's good to carry a healthy dose of skepticism about these things, especially when you're on a tight budget like I am. Nevertheless, I was still quite surprised by the improvement I heard. I'm not alone. These things have gotten positive reviews from plenty of audio rags (TAS, 6moons, Soundstage, etc [see here for a list]), so I consider myself in pretty good company.

Honestly guys, it bothers me that a guy can't come into a forum like this and post a honest personal experience with a product like this w/o basically being made out to be dilusional or a liar. Have you forgotten how subjective this hobby is? To me it just comes off as really arrogant and closed minded. Do any of us really understand digital playback so completely and perfectly that we can make such universal judgements against the perceptions of everyone?

I'm not in any way denying the science behind audio, but for me it ultimately comes down to my own two ears, because I'm the one that listens to my system 99% of the time.

The point with bringing up the dedicated circuit and receptacle was that in that case I barely noticed any difference at all, when my reading on the subject had led me to expect a more noticeable difference. I was trying to convey the fact that I'm not the kind of guy that thinks he hears a huge improvement in every tweak he trys and that it was 2 good examples of how my expectations, which were based on what I thought I understood, based on what I had read, were upended by my actual experience.

So, I challenge you...give them a shot if you haven't. You might just be pleasantly surprised like I was. Isn't that what we're all after anyway...more enjoyment of the music?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I appreciate the skepticism. As I stated, I was skeptical too. It's good to carry a healthy dose of skepticism about these things, especially when you're on a tight budget like I am. Nevertheless, I was still quite surprised by the improvement I heard. I'm not alone. These things have gotten positive reviews from plenty of audio rags (TAS, 6moons, Soundstage, etc [see here for a list]), so I consider myself in pretty good company.

Honestly guys, it bothers me that a guy can't come into a forum like this and post a honest personal experience with a product like this w/o basically being made out to be dilusional or a liar. Have you forgotten how subjective this hobby is? To me it just comes off as really arrogant and closed minded. Do any of us really understand digital playback so completely and perfectly that we can make such universal judgements against the perceptions of everyone?

I'm not in any way denying the science behind audio, but for me it ultimately comes down to my own two ears, because I'm the one that listens to my system 99% of the time.

The point with bringing up the dedicated circuit and receptacle was that in that case I barely noticed any difference at all, when my reading on the subject had led me to expect a more noticeable difference. I was trying to convey the fact that I'm the kind of guy that thinks he hears a huge improvement in every tweak he trys and that it was 2 good examples of how my expectations, which were based on what I thought I understood, based on what I had read, were upended by my actual experience.

So, I challenge you...give them a shot if you haven't. You might just be pleasantly surprised like I was. Isn't that what we're all after anyway...more enjoyment of the music?

Well, I wouldn't call TAS and most likely 6moons and parts of soundstage being in good company. You may though.
No one called you a liar. But some do question others perceptions as it applies to reality.

As to the question of audibility, unless it can be demonstrated under bias controlled conditions, it remains a perception and perceptions can be unreliable. And, the more subjective this hobby is the more reason to apply controls to minimize the effects of bias. No need to know everything about digital audio. No need to know anything at all as it can be tested as to audibility under controlled conditions. Short of that, perceptions and personal experiences can be misleading and be unreliable.
I don't see a need to try it; lack of credible evidence is sufficient not to waste time on it.

 

[stratman]

I've installed Bilstein shocks on all my gear, it's so smooth now I can hear all the details up to 45,000 KHz, amazing what good dampening can do.

 

[leetamm]

Well, I wouldn't call TAS and most likely 6moons and parts of soundstage being in good company. You may though.
No one called you a liar. But some do question others perceptions as it applies to reality.

As to the question of audibility, unless it can be demonstrated under bias controlled conditions, it remains a perception and perceptions can be unreliable. And, the more subjective this hobby is the more reason to apply controls to minimize the effects of bias. No need to know everything about digital audio. No need to know anything at all as it can be tested as to audibility under controlled conditions. Short of that, perceptions and personal experiences can be misleading and be unreliable.
I don't see a need to try it; lack of credible evidence is sufficient not to waste time on it.

Pardon my ignorance, but what would be credible evidence in this case? It seems you don't consider the many positive experiences reported by people who use them to be credible. How do you measure the difference a product like this contributes (or doesn't) to the audible sound, and how can you be sure how that measurement will translate audibly to a person's ear?

At the end of the day, I'd like to think that I can have a reasonable amount of trust when it comes to (subjective) perceptions of audio quality in what my own two ears hear, just as I think I can have a reasonable amount of trust in what in my own two eyes see when it comes down to video quality (what looks good to my eyes).

I've heard my share of different audio gear and some has sounded better to me than others. I'd hate to think that I can't trust any of my perceptions when it comes down to auditioning audio gear, or that I can't trust my perceptions enough to allow myself to enjoy the improvement I think my ears hear in a certain audio component just because someone conducted an experiment that says I shouldn't hear any difference at all.

Again, I'm not saying that we should buy everything everyone tries to sell us, but what is the use of equipment reviews if ultimately we can't trust the perceptions of a good number of people?

Anyway, as I stated above, in the end for me it comes down to what sounds good to my ears, and the vibrapods sound good to my ears.

 

[WmAx]

I find the subject topic of this thread interesting. So many audiophiles are worried about vibrations where it is a non-issue(solid state amplifier, CD player, cables, etc.) but have little concern for the horrific resonances present in most hi-fi speaker cabinets.

-Chris