Using older wired subwoofer with newer Samsung sound bar

C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
Since I just never have been all that impressed with the wireless subwoofer that came with my HW-M550 Samsung sound bar, I have a pretty nice 12 inch down firing RCA subwoofer that I’ve had for a very long time that works really well but the problem is, I don’t know how I would hook this up to the sound bar being that right off hand, I don’t know if the sound bar has that coaxial RCA-plug type subwoofer output on it which is what my old RCA brand subwoofer has… that, and of course it has the incoming and outgoing speaker wire terminals on it as well. Is there some kind of adapter I could buy to make this happen or is this pretty much impossible? Thanks.


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Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
Since I just never have been all that impressed with the wireless subwoofer that came with my HW-M550 Samsung sound bar, I have a pretty nice 12 inch down firing RCA subwoofer that I’ve had for a very long time that works really well but the problem is, I don’t know how I would hook this up to the sound bar being that right off hand, I don’t know if the sound bar has that coaxial RCA-plug type subwoofer output on it which is what my old RCA brand subwoofer has… that, and of course it has the incoming and outgoing speaker wire terminals on it as well. Is there some kind of adapter I could buy to make this happen or is this pretty much impossible? Thanks.
The user manual is on this web page.
I had a look and there is only one output on the soundbar and that is the HDMI out port intended to be connected to the HDMI/ARC port on the TV, which is digital. So short answer is no audio output for a subwoofer. If your TV has RCA audio outputs you could get creative. Most just have HDMI or optical out, but if it has RCA analogue outputs you could run that to a sub and use the crossover and level controls on the sub to try and match it to your soundbar, but the RCA needs to be controlled by the TV volume and not a straight line level signal.

Most comments on that web page complain about poor subwoofer output. I think you'll likely have to look at a replacement to improve the sound.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
The user manual is on this web page.
I had a look and there is only one output on the soundbar and that is the HDMI out port intended to be connected to the HDMI/ARC port on the TV, which is digital. So short answer is no audio output for a subwoofer. If your TV has RCA audio outputs you could get creative. Most just have HDMI or optical out, but if it has RCA analogue outputs you could run that to a sub and use the crossover and level controls on the sub to try and match it to your soundbar, but the RCA needs to be controlled by the TV volume and not a straight line level signal.

Most comments on that web page complain about poor subwoofer output. I think you'll likely have to look at a replacement to improve the sound.
Yeah, I’m afraid you’re right, I just really don’t wanna have to buy another subwoofer when I’m not even sure what other options there are that would work just because of the fact that the subwoofer that came with the sound bar connects to it wirelessly.

I have this device that I bought at Walmart that pretty much takes a component that only has the RCA or the S video outputs and converts it to HDMI so that you could plug that into a TV that no longer has the S-video or the RCA jacks like the older VCRs, game units and DVD players do, but l wonder if there’s a device that works reversed to where it had an HDMI input and the left and right RCA outputs or the coaxial output that looks like a fat, single RCA cable that you can plug this directly into that subwoofer.

I can’t remember what they’re called but I do know that somebody at one time a long time ago made an opposite version of the device that some of us used years and years and years ago when we had a newer DVD player or game console that you couldn’t plug into an older TV that just had the old school F connector coax cable antenna input on it, that would take your RCA output and convert it to that because along time ago, my ex mother-in-law had bought these special VCR/DVD recorder combos that I guess weren’t cable ready, which was weird, is why they didn’t have the metal twist on F connector antenna input or output and only had RCA jacks as inputs.

Well, her cable boxes at the time were not fancy at all and they didn’t have RCA outputs on them at all and she wanted to be able to hook her cable box up to these DVD recorder‘s but she couldn’t because like I said, the DVD recorders only had RCA jacks inputs.

Is there a device that works like that that would basically have an HDMI input and an RCA output? If there even was such a thing would it even work?


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C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
The user manual is on this web page.
I had a look and there is only one output on the soundbar and that is the HDMI out port intended to be connected to the HDMI/ARC port on the TV, which is digital. So short answer is no audio output for a subwoofer. If your TV has RCA audio outputs you could get creative. Most just have HDMI or optical out, but if it has RCA analogue outputs you could run that to a sub and use the crossover and level controls on the sub to try and match it to your soundbar, but the RCA needs to be controlled by the TV volume and not a straight line level signal.

Most comments on that web page complain about poor subwoofer output. I think you'll likely have to look at a replacement to improve the sound.
Aside from my last post looking for an adapter, is there an aftermarket subwoofer out there that uses an HDMI connection to it being that the only output on my sound bar that I’m aware of is the HDMI return audio channel? I just want to get a lot more bass out of my audio which is why I’m wondering if it would work, being that my older subwoofer has the high level speaker terminal inputs and outputs on it, would it be possible to take my sound bar apart, cut the wires to the left and right audio channels and then get 2 longer speaker wire sets to go from the amplifier ends inside the soundbar to the inputs of the powered subwoofer and then turn around and take two more speaker wire sets to go from the two outputs on the powered subwoofer back to the sound bar and wire into the wires that go to to the left and right speakers?

Essentially it’s all pretty much the same thing as an old school system to where if you have the panel on the backside of your receiver that had the speaker wires that went to your left and right audio channel and if you had a subwoofer like this that you were hook it up, you would just do the same thing I mentioned above where you would run two speaker wires from your receiver to your subwoofer and then run two more wires from the subwoofer to each your left and right speaker and end up with the same thing.

I’m pretty good at that kind of wiring being that I actually took on the job myself of soldering in a new cord on my CB microphone and years ago back when I was playing my Nintendo 64, I didn’t like how the controller cords were so short so I got two cables that had the same amount of wires in them and I actually spliced the longer wires between the controllers and the plug-ins and made my old custom length cables for my controllers…lol.


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Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
You shouldn't need to cut the wires in the sound bar. The high level connection to a subwoofer via speaker terminals is usually in parallel as the sub input is high impedance. So you just tap into the L+R channels and run it to the speaker level input on the sub. Lord knows if you'll find any screws to open the sound bar and what kind of speaker connections you'll find inside. I would only do this if you're willing to take the chance that the sound bar might get trashed in the process. I think you're on your own with this one. :D
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Aside from my last post looking for an adapter, is there an aftermarket subwoofer out there that uses an HDMI connection to it being that the only output on my sound bar that I’m aware of is the HDMI return audio channel? I just want to get a lot more bass out of my audio which is why I’m wondering if it would work, being that my older subwoofer has the high level speaker terminal inputs and outputs on it, would it be possible to take my sound bar apart, cut the wires to the left and right audio channels and then get 2 longer speaker wire sets to go from the amplifier ends inside the soundbar to the inputs of the powered subwoofer and then turn around and take two more speaker wire sets to go from the two outputs on the powered subwoofer back to the sound bar and wire into the wires that go to to the left and right speakers?

Essentially it’s all pretty much the same thing as an old school system to where if you have the panel on the backside of your receiver that had the speaker wires that went to your left and right audio channel and if you had a subwoofer like this that you were hook it up, you would just do the same thing I mentioned above where you would run two speaker wires from your receiver to your subwoofer and then run two more wires from the subwoofer to each your left and right speaker and end up with the same thing.

I’m pretty good at that kind of wiring being that I actually took on the job myself of soldering in a new cord on my CB microphone and years ago back when I was playing my Nintendo 64, I didn’t like how the controller cords were so short so I got two cables that had the same amount of wires in them and I actually spliced the longer wires between the controllers and the plug-ins and made my old custom length cables for my controllers…lol.


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I agree with Eppie. Taking this modern junk apart can be very risky. If you are prepared to trash that unit go ahead.

Your real problem is that you bought a sound bar. If you TV has an optical out I would get an optical/RCA DAC converter and a little power amp and a couple of fairly decent speakers. Basically that sound bar is a waste of space.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
If you wait long enough, @TLSGuy will tell you what we are all thinking and save us the trouble.;)
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Sorry, not picking on OP. I'd sell the soundbar and its sub and look at modest receiver and speakers that can be used with the RCA subwoofer. Some used bookshelf speakers and a used two channel receiver would give better sound and more placement options than the soundbar. Check local Craigslist ads, thrift stores and pawn shops. There are little treasures out there. You just have to look for them.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
You shouldn't need to cut the wires in the sound bar. The high level connection to a subwoofer via speaker terminals is usually in parallel as the sub input is high impedance. So you just tap into the L+R channels and run it to the speaker level input on the sub. Lord knows if you'll find any screws to open the sound bar and what kind of speaker connections you'll find inside. I would only do this if you're willing to take the chance that the sound bar might get trashed in the process. I think you're on your own with this one. :D
So if that way you’re describing works, how come they made the subwoofer to where it has an input in an output on the speaker wire? Was that always intended to where I could just leave the speakers plugged in to the receiver and just basically run a pair of speaker wires from the same speaker terminals on the receiver straight over to the subwoofer with nothing coming back?

But if I could easily open the sound bar up, do you like you said and not cut the wires, and just tap into them and then run the two wires over to the subwoofer, I wonder how it would sound being that this sound bar is capable of modern day audio technology when the last time this subwoofer was used, it was used with stereos that were only the old-school Dolby pro logic… I wonder if it would still sound the same as what I remember it sounding before but one thing I would be curious about, at least one thing about the subwoofer that came with the sound bar, it may not be all that noticeable when you’re watching certain continent but like if I was to fire up the ultra high Def Blu-ray player and play a Blu-ray that’s in 4K, that subwoofer that came with the sound bar really does come alive so I wonder how that would sound if I was to hook this older technology subwoofer up to that…


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T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Well, if you are going to crack things open, I’d get into the wireless sub and unhook the wires to the driver and connect them to another set of wires and connect those to the IN speaker terminals on the RCA sub. I mean, why not? If you want to tinker with it and if you can open up the wireless sub without destroying it, go for it. Just have a few bucks set aside if things go south.;)
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
Well, if you are going to crack things open, I’d get into the wireless sub and unhook the wires to the driver and connect them to another set of wires and connect those to the IN speaker terminals on the RCA sub. I mean, why not? If you want to tinker with it and if you can open up the wireless sub without destroying it, go for it. Just have a few bucks set aside if things go south.;)



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C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
I agree with Eppie. Taking this modern junk apart can be very risky. If you are prepared to trash that unit go ahead.

Your real problem is that you bought a sound bar. If you TV has an optical out I would get an optical/RCA DAC converter and a little power amp and a couple of fairly decent speakers. Basically that sound bar is a waste of space.
You mean this, or something like this?

PROZOR 192KHz Digital to Analog Audio Converter DAC Digital SPDIF Optical to Analog L/R RCA Converter Toslink Optical to 3.5mm Jack Adapter for PS3 HD DVD PS4 Amp Apple TV Home Cinema https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00KNNSKV0/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_fabc_P0WR7QWMWFVDXMAGNYNX?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1

But yeah, I really miss the big ole Pioneer stereo tower system I used to have back in the day that had the dual tape deck, 50+1 CD changer, tuner and amp that had the ginormous 4way main speakers with 12” subs, a center channel speaker and two rear surround speakers. For 1500 bucks, that thing was the bomb. **Sigh**.

In that soundbar’s defense though, it’s not the cheaper one Walmart carried, it was about $350 at Best Buy when I bought it almost three years ago and sounds really good but I get it, you’re really limited with just a soundbar. Maybe someday I’ll be able to get a modern receiver and be able to have back similar to what I had back in the day.


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Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
So if that way you’re describing works, how come they made the subwoofer to where it has an input in an output on the speaker wire? Was that always intended to where I could just leave the speakers plugged in to the receiver and just basically run a pair of speaker wires from the same speaker terminals on the receiver straight over to the subwoofer with nothing coming back?

But if I could easily open the sound bar up, do you like you said and not cut the wires, and just tap into them and then run the two wires over to the subwoofer, I wonder how it would sound being that this sound bar is capable of modern day audio technology when the last time this subwoofer was used, it was used with stereos that were only the old-school Dolby pro logic… I wonder if it would still sound the same as what I remember it sounding before but one thing I would be curious about, at least one thing about the subwoofer that came with the sound bar, it may not be all that noticeable when you’re watching certain continent but like if I was to fire up the ultra high Def Blu-ray player and play a Blu-ray that’s in 4K, that subwoofer that came with the sound bar really does come alive so I wonder how that would sound if I was to hook this older technology subwoofer up to that…


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Correct, you can run a separate set of speaker wires just to the sub. Since the sub input is high impedance the amplifier in the soundbar / receiver / AVR is not affected by it. Some subs have both inputs and outputs for speaker wire connections. That is so that you can run one wire from the amp to the sub and then from the sub to the speakers, daisy chain fashion. The connection in the sub is basically a pass through that it taps into.

Can't predict how it's going to sound. The sub will definitely play lower frequencies but how well it blends with the soundbar depends upon how much adjustment you have on the sub for level and crossover frequency.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
Correct, you can run a separate set of speaker wires just to the sub. Since the sub input is high impedance the amplifier in the soundbar / receiver / AVR is not affected by it. Some subs have both inputs and outputs for speaker wire connections. That is so that you can run one wire from the amp to the sub and then from the sub to the speakers, daisy chain fashion. The connection in the sub is basically a pass through that it taps into.

Can't predict how it's going to sound. The sub will definitely play lower frequencies but how well it blends with the soundbar depends upon how much adjustment you have on the sub for level and crossover frequency.
Well, if they make an adapter that basically goes from an optical toslink to RCA I may just go that route and plug the sub directly into the TV but if I did that, I’d have to go back to using the TV ARC connection between my TV and my soundbar because I currently have the sound bar hooked up to the TV via optical cable.


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Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
Well, if they make an adapter that basically goes from an optical toslink to RCA I may just go that route and plug the sub directly into the TV but if I did that, I’d have to go back to using the TV ARC connection between my TV and my soundbar because I currently have the sound bar hooked up to the TV via optical cable.
It may not matter so much with a sound bar, but with surround setups HDMI is generally preferred to optical as multi-channel audio gets compressed and decompressed using optical (with say 7 channel DTS but not with stereo).
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
Haven’t you cracked that subwoofer open, yet?;)The optical to analog convert is one solution but be careful about the output signal. I’m not sure if all do it, but some require conversion of audio to PCM before sending to converter. This is no good if one wants discreet multi channel and not a two channel upmix and not sure if you can bitstream from HDMI ARC while also converting optical to PCM. I’m guessing no and it would be PCM all around. Anyway, unplug and open up the back of the subwoofer and…:D
EA7AC33C-3B77-452C-8000-D7D11EC0C660.jpeg
 
Eppie

Eppie

Audioholic Ninja
That would be a nice solution if the TV outputs to HDMI/ARC and optical at the same time. No need to open anything up. Might be some timing issues if the converter introduces some delay compared to HDMI, put probably not that critical for LFE. Good catch.
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
Haven’t you cracked that subwoofer open, yet?;)The optical to analog convert is one solution but be careful about the output signal. I’m not sure if all do it, but some require conversion of audio to PCM before sending to converter. This is no good if one wants discreet multi channel and not a two channel upmix and not sure if you can bitstream from HDMI ARC while also converting optical to PCM. I’m guessing no and it would be PCM all around. Anyway, unplug and open up the back of the subwoofer and…:D
View attachment 49532
I haven’t been home yet to even mess with that subwoofer but when you say to crack open the wireless sub and disconnect the wires from the driver, what exactly is the driver? Are you talking about the internal amp in the older powered sub and basically powering the old sub through the wireless one basically by bypassing the internal sub and amp of the wireless one?

But yeah, I noticed that about that optical to RCA converter where it said to change the audio output on the TV to PCM which, as far as audio quality goes, I don’t know why that would be exactly a problem because there for the longest time I was using PCM on the input in the output settings while still using the HDMI ARC connection from my TV to the sound bar but, switching the input over to bitstream and then changing the output to bitstream using that DTS Neo 2.5 or whatever it’s called, I do get a lot more volume in my sound.


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T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Ninja
I meant disconnecting the wire to the actual speaker and extending the wires to connect to the speaker terminals on the RCA. You will still need power to the wireless sub for the wireless transmitter and amp to get a signal to the RCA sub. The RCA sub would just be taking the place of the Samsung subwoofer and you will not need to change any audio settings as the RCA would still get the LFE info when TV audio output is set to DTS Neo:2.5. That setting is preferable to everything else on the TV as even two channel stereo signals are converted to DTS 5.1 when using ARC or an optical connection and has better volume as you mentioned. I believe the back plate of the wireless sub can be removed if you want to have a look inside of it. Yeah, my idea is kinda' out there, but it won't cost you anything but a little wire and maybe two burned out subs.;)
 
C

corneileous

Junior Audioholic
I meant disconnecting the wire to the actual speaker and extending the wires to connect to the speaker terminals on the RCA. You will still need power to the wireless sub for the wireless transmitter and amp to get a signal to the RCA sub. The RCA sub would just be taking the place of the Samsung subwoofer and you will not need to change any audio settings as the RCA would still get the LFE info when TV audio output is set to DTS Neo:2.5. That setting is preferable to everything else on the TV as even two channel stereo signals are converted to DTS 5.1 when using ARC or an optical connection and has better volume as you mentioned. I believe the back plate of the wireless sub can be removed if you want to have a look inside of it. Yeah, my idea is kinda' out there, but it won't cost you anything but a little wire and maybe two burned out subs.;)
No, your idea’s actually sounding pretty neat even though you still got me worried a little bit when down there at the bottom of your post you say it won’t cost me anything but a little wire and maybe two burned out subs… LOL which on a more serious note, how would this burn out the two subs because being that the high-level input on my RCA sub is just a source input that it’s not really based off of power output from the source coming to it, nor would the impedance have to be matched or anything I wouldn’t think.

Even though that wireless Samsung subwoofer does actually sound OK depending on the content you’re watching, it’s still not all that impressive to me so I even kind of wonder if I can take this step a little bit further if there’s enough room inside my RCA sub enclosure which is basically in a box about 19, 20 inches tall by about 17 in.².

If I could take everything except the sub and amp from the wireless enclosure and put it inside the RCA box, basically have two power cables coming out of it because I don’t wanna get involved in trying to tap it into the power supply on the RCA, just make it so that it has two power cables and have it all contained in the one unit which brings me to another question- that’s why I was asking before about which wires to unplug from the Samsung sub box because would there be a difference in sound quality if I used the amplified speaker wires going into the high level input of the RCA box or using the un-amplified wires from that go to the wireless subwoofer’s internal amp? Because if it would sound virtually the same like I was saying, I would just rather leave the subwoofer and that little subs internal amp inside that box and take everything else out and put inside the other box if there’s room to do it.


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