Using a Receiver Without Preouts for Connection to an Amp?

[PearlcorderS701]

Is it possible or even advised -- through the use of "converter" devices for changing speaker-level outputs to preamp levels -- to utilize a receiver that doesn't have preamp outs for connection to a multichannel power amp?

Aside from an upgrade in raw power output, I'd like to continue using my Onkyo 605 for its processing; it doesn't, however, have preamp outputs for feeding an amp. I know in car audio, there are devices which convert speaker-level connections from, say, a factory head unit for the preamp RCA connections on a power amp, but are there such things for home audio?

I had been given links to products once before which may handle duties such as this, which would essentially connect onto the speaker outputs of the 605 and then convert the signal to preamp level so it could go off to an amp, but the opinions on these devices were sketchy at best; most recommended not using these because they introduce a great deal of noise into the signal and such...

Is it possible to use a receiver without preouts to feed an external power amp?

 

[WmAx]

Just use the headphone out jack.

If it were me, I would not hesitate to open up the unit and add in pre-out jacks. But that's me.

-Chris

Is it possible or even advised -- through the use of "converter" devices for changing speaker-level outputs to preamp levels -- to utilize a receiver that doesn't have preamp outs for connection to a multichannel power amp?

Aside from an upgrade in raw power output, I'd like to continue using my Onkyo 605 for its processing; it doesn't, however, have preamp outputs for feeding an amp. I know in car audio, there are devices which convert speaker-level connections from, say, a factory head unit for the preamp RCA connections on a power amp, but are there such things for home audio?

I had been given links to products once before which may handle duties such as this, which would essentially connect onto the speaker outputs of the 605 and then convert the signal to preamp level so it could go off to an amp, but the opinions on these devices were sketchy at best; most recommended not using these because they introduce a great deal of noise into the signal and such...

Is it possible to use a receiver without preouts to feed an external power amp?

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Just use the headphone out jack.

What?! How? This would actually work? How would this one out feed a multichannel power amp?

If it were me, I would not hesitate to open up the unit and add in pre-out jacks. But that's me.

-Chris

How would this even be done?

 

[WmAx]

What?! How? This would actually work? How would this one out feed a multichannel power amp?

Well, obviously, it's only a solution for stereo.

The down conversion boxes, if you use them, are going to dictate the quality of sound.

How would this even be done?

Open up unit, trace down the internal pre-amp/processor section and amp modules and find the line level signal circuits between them. Cut circuit and bypass to external jacks that you install wherever space allows on back. I usually add switches for each channel pair to select between 'bypass' and 'internal circuit' modes. You do need some basic knowledge of electronics and know how to solder/work with PCBs do this properly, of course. If you have no knowledge/ability here, then of course this is not a valid course for you.

-Chris

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Well, obviously, it's only a solution for stereo.

I understand that, but how would a headphone out be used to feed the amp -- can you explain the physical connection?

The down conversion boxes, if you use them, are going to dictate the quality of sound.

What downconversion boxes...you mean the "converter" devices I was talking about? Are these actually available, and what would they look like?

Open up unit, trace down the internal pre-amp/processor section and amp modules and find the line level signal circuits between them. Cut circuit and bypass to external jacks that you install wherever space allows on back. I usually add switches for each channel pair to select between 'bypass' and 'internal circuit' modes. You do need some basic knowledge of electronics and know how to solder/work with PCBs do this properly, of course. If you have no knowledge/ability here, then of course this is not a valid course for you.

-Chris

No...this wouldn't be a valid course for me.

But thanks.

 

[WmAx]

BTW, if you want really high quality hi to low signal conversion boxes, you would probably want to use professional gear. The Behringer DI-100, for example, has a very flat response, low distortion, de-coupling isolation transformer and multiple attenuation options.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDI100

As you can see, it can get expensive to convert high level outputs to line level with a quality device. In this case, you would need 2 of these for stereo output, and also need some adapters to work with the 1/4 TRS and XLR connections.

-Chris

 

[anamorphic96]

Using the headphone jack would be similar to using the head phone jack on an iPod to feed powered speaker system.

You would use a headphone to RCA adaptor and plug it into the RCA inputs on the amp. Then connect the speakers to amp. However its only stereo.

You could the use the pre outs for the zone 2 section on the 605 to connect and external amp. But there again I think you would be stuck with basic stereo only. However I'm not 100% sure about only using stereo. You might be able to get ProLogic 2 to work since it converts analog two channel signals into a psuedo 5.1 surround.

You might want to check with Onkyo on what formats work with Zone 2 connections.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Using the headphone jack would be similar to using the head phone jack on an iPod to feed powered speaker system.

You would use a headphone to RCA adaptor and plug it into the RCA inputs on the amp. Then connect the speakers to amp. However its only stereo.

Well, this wouldn't work because I'd be feeding a multichannel amp, perhaps a Emotiva of some kind; this method really sounds like ghetto-rigging it anyways...

You could the use the pre outs for the zone 2 section on the 605 to connect and external amp. But there again I think you would be stuck with basic stereo only. However I'm not 100% sure about only using stereo. You might be able to get ProLogic 2 to work since it converts analog two channel signals into a psuedo 5.1 surround.

You might want to check with Onkyo on what formats work with Zone 2 connections.

If the Zone 2 section is just for feeding a stereo pair in the 605, then yes I would be stuck with stereo only; what about the possibility of using a line-level converter of some kind to feed the 605's speaker outs into the converter, and then the converter's preamp side into the power amp?

BTW, I have been looking at that Emotiva three-channel amp because it's the front three channels that really need the most "boosting;" would you recommend going down this route, or getting an all-out five, six or seven-channel power amp?

 

[PearlcorderS701]

BTW, if you want really high quality hi to low signal conversion boxes, you would probably want to use professional gear. The Behringer DI-100, for example, has a very flat response, low distortion, de-coupling isolation transformer and multiple attenuation options.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--BEHDI100

As you can see, it can get expensive to convert high level outputs to line level with a quality device. In this case, you would need 2 of these for stereo output, and also need some adapters to work with the 1/4 TRS and XLR connections.

-Chris

This product is for converting speaker-level signals to preamp level ones?

It didn't seem that expensive...

 

[WmAx]

This product is for converting speaker-level signals to preamp level ones?

It didn't seem that expensive...

Yes it is, and a reasonably advanced active one to ensure minimal SQ degradation.

Well, considering the price of the receiver, and needing one of these DI100 units for every channel, it just seemed costly to me, relatively speaking.

-Chris

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Yes it is, and a reasonably advanced active one to ensure minimal SQ degradation.

Well, considering the price of the receiver, and needing one of these DI100 units for every channel, it just seemed costly to me, relatively speaking.

-Chris

Oh, I see; each channel would require one of these...you're probably right, then. Given the circa-$500 price of my receiver, this probably wouldn't make much sense.

I will probably have no choice but to buy another Onkyo AVR with preouts to feed a power amp, but I was hoping there was a way to salvage my 605 for this purpose...

 

[bandphan]

For the price to five channels, upgrade the AVR

 

[PearlcorderS701]

For the price to five channels, upgrade the AVR

That's what I was thinking, 'Band.

How about the possibility, though, of adding a converter system (not the aforementioned Berringher) which would connect to the speaker outputs of my AVR? I know there are more affordable solutions out there; I probably could get away with amplifying the front three channels, and letting the 605 amp the surrounds, no?

 

[bandphan]

Around $100 for 2 russound converters, plus shipping. For me since you can pick up a Onkyo 707 for just over $400 with full preouts still seems more logical.

 

[PearlcorderS701]

Around $100 for 2 russound converters, plus shipping. For me since you can pick up a Onkyo 707 for just over $400 with full preouts still seems more logical.

I see what you're saying; I need to check out the Russounds to see if they do what I need...

 

[bandphan]

http://www.russound.com/adp1.2.htm just build a simple box and you have a finished piece of gear

 

[PearlcorderS701]

http://www.russound.com/adp1.2.htm just build a simple box and you have a finished piece of gear

Yeah, I saw that on their site after I replied to you...

So, these converters come unfinished like this? This isn't something I'd really be into then; the idea of a new AVR is sounding like a better option...

 

[bandphan]

you can get finished ones, just going to cost more. Building a simple box costs about $10-15 and an hour if you stain it.

 

[WmAx]

The Russound sure seems like a ripoff. A simple passive L pad for $40? And not even a case? I thought it was a typo ($39.99) at first, because the correct price for something like this is more like $3.99.

The Behringer unit is an active, transformer isolated unit with multiple settings, designed to work optimally in any situation. The DI100 is a far more sophisticated device designed to work with virtually any amplifier output and prevent coloration/noise/ground loops/etc.

Both options are a lot considering the cost of the receiver at subject here.

But the OP could take a few bucks worth of parts and make his own unit easily, that is as 'sophisticated' as the Russound thing.

-Chris

 

[highfigh]

Around $100 for 2 russound converters, plus shipping. For me since you can pick up a Onkyo 707 for just over $400 with full preouts still seems more logical.

Who's selling those for $50? The retail price is $35.