USA Today Report on MonsterCable

[dohanc]

Gene: I think your argument and your response was very well stated, however I see the same shortcoming in your approach to convince people that cables do not make a lot of difference. The math works, I can follow it because I am an electrical engineer as well. Even if I wasn't I could trust the your doing the math right. But the problem is the majority of people will not be convinced that the results of a frequency response done on a RLC circuit is not audible.

I think you need to show lots and lots of proof from blind tests from a large group of people to really get it across to the people that they can not hear -0.0023418dB at 20kHz. The math works, but the results are just numbers to most people. Numbers that don't easily translate to whether or not they can hear it or not.

I think monster is overpriced, however they are certainly not the worst offenders out there. I think your site proves that some of the much more expensive cables are based off snake oil, much more than the Monster products.

I think BMXTRIX got it right when he said that USA Today is just being politically correct.

I'm sticking with my GLOB cables.

 

[Rob Babcock]

Take away Monster's mafia-shakedown-style legal tactics and I have no compaints. Like B(l)ose, they simply have found a way to effectively market their products very well. Some companies succeed with a better mousetrap, while they just hunt dumber mice. It's the American way!

It's a shame that the public doesn't understand or doesn't wish to research or think for themselves. In a way it's not different than other types of gear. Compare what VMPS gives you for $10k with what other high end companies give you for $100k. Compare Axiom, Hsu Research, or VMPS with what you find for a comparable price at BB or CC. It's easier to put the brain on autopilot than to figure out stuff on your own.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I think you need to show lots and lots of proof from blind tests from a large group of people to really get it across to the people that they can not hear -0.0023418dB at 20kHz. The math works, but the results are just numbers to most people. Numbers that don't easily translate to whether or not they can hear it or not..

Or, we can show JND Journal article?
"Level Discrimination as a Function of Level for Tones from .25 to 16khz", Florentine, Mary, et al, Journal of Acoustic Society of America, 81(5) May 1987, pg 1528-1541.


JND at 16kHz is 3dB spl average, 1 dB spl minimum
It gets worse as you go up. Not measured but J. Stewart of Meridian in a paper to AES indicated threshold of 100dB spl at 20kHz, for those who can hear it

 

[Tsunamii]

Sure the story sucks, but consider the source. In my opinion, there isn't a worse rag out there trying to disguise itself as a reputable newspaper than USA Today.

That being said, I think that you wrote a wonderfully articulate response to the author of the article. You stood up for yourself and still took the high road. Kudos to you.

(reason for edit) p.s. - Tsunamii (tacky name by the way), I am pretty sure that Michelle is a girl.

Yes,I was trying to a better name like, "slmcondlad7" but couldn't find one. Apparently neither could you. For what your opnion is worth, that and 80 cents will get you on a bus.

 

[Audioholics]

p.s. - Tsunamii (tacky name by the way)

He joined the forums in May of 2004 - current events don't warrant that everyone should change their nic handles.

 

[jaguars_fan]

What else do you expect from USA Today? I have know for years that they don't read anything they print. All they are concerned with is, "Will it fit in that hole between the ads?"

I wrote to them asking them for Michelle's contact info, but I'm not going to hold my breath (blue's not my best color).

 

[slmcdonald7]

Oops

Sorry Tsunamii, I didn't notice that your join date was before the recent disaster. I withdraw my 'tacky' comment about your name.

Speaking of names, after reading your two posts in this thread, I can understand why you had trouble identifying the name "Michelle" with a female. For a person of your intellectual calibur, I am sure that names are very hard for you. Also, your comment about 80 cents and a bus was priceless. Keep it up.

 

[Tsunamii]

Sorry Tsunamii, I didn't notice that your join date was before the recent disaster. I withdraw my 'tacky' comment about your name.

Speaking of names, after reading your two posts in this thread, I can understand why you had trouble identifying the name "Michelle" with a female. For a person of your intellectual calibur, I am sure that names are very hard for you. Also, your comment about 80 cents and a bus was priceless. Keep it up.

slmcdonald7, Im not sure what your issue is. I was doing several things at once and misread. Does the authors sex change anything? Just as you did not notice when I joined (I have used a similar nic for over 10 years on other forums etc) I did not notice that I misread. To start a flame war over it is childish. To pass judgment on people you don't know is arrogant. Either way we both obviously have the same enthusiasm for AV and I don't see the point to your continued flame. In any case, take a nitro pill and relax a little.

Cheers

BTW I dont see Cisco changing the default name for their wireless networks over the disaster? They are all still tsunami. They must be bad people.

 

[WmAx]

Sorry Tsunamii, I didn't notice that your join date was before the recent disaster. I withdraw my 'tacky' comment about your name.

Speaking of names, after reading your two posts in this thread, I can understand why you had trouble identifying the name "Michelle" with a female. For a person of your intellectual calibur, I am sure that names are very hard for you. Also, your comment about 80 cents and a bus was priceless. Keep it up.

Why does it matter if Tsumanii registered before OR after the 'disaster'? Are you so insecure as to be upset by the slightest of things such as a moniker that reminds you of 'something' you don't like?

Maybe I'll change my moniker to TwinTowerJetFlyer or something.

-Chris

 

[slmcdonald7]

Maybe I'll change my moniker to TwinTowerJetFlyer or something. -Chris

Brilliant. You've truly established yourself as the intellectual superior here. Nice work Chris.

Who cares if Tsumanii registered before OR after the 'disaster'? Are you so insecure as to be upset by the slightest of things such as a moniker that reminds you of 'something' you don't like?

All I said was that it was 'tacky,' mistakenly thinking that he had registered after the tsunami. I never said anything more than that regarding his name, let alone anything that would lead to your genious assumption that I was 'insecure as to be upset by the slightest of things.' Judging from your irrational response, I would have to assume that it is you who is 'upset by the slightest of things.' Having been here long enough to be familiar with your postings WmAx, I am certain that the tackiness of such a name (or TwinTowerJetFlyer) is lost on you (along with much else).

I never meant for a simple p.s. on what was intended to be a generally positive post to kick up such a fuss amongst the dumbest of the forum dwellers. I apologized to Tsunamii for calling his name 'tacky,' so perhaps we could just drop all of this?

 

[WmAx]

I never said anything more than that regarding his name, let alone anything that would lead to your genious assumption that I was 'insecure as to be upset by the slightest of things.' Judging from your irrational response, I would have to assume that it is you who is 'upset by the slightest of things.'

Hmm. I asked a question. I did not claim that you were insecure -- I asked if you were -- and if that was the reason for your response.

The only 'slight' thing that has really upset me, that I've made note of in this forum, is Monster Cable's business tactics. For that 'slight thing' upsetting me -- I am guilty.

Having been here long enough to be familiar with your postings WmAx, I am certain that the tackiness of such a name (or TwinTowerJetFlyer) is lost on you (along with much else).

Tacky is a subjective interpretation, or so it seems. I was tryiing to 'joke'. Your reply 'implied' something in my interpretation -- so I asked you in order to confirm if my interpretation was correct. Notice the question mark at the end of the sentence in question.

I never meant for a simple p.s. on what was intended to be a generally positive post to kick up such a fuss amongst the dumbest of the forum dwellers. I apologized to Tsunamii for calling his name 'tacky,' so perhaps we could just drop all of this?

Whom, specifically, do you intend the phrase "dumbest of the forum dwellers" to be applied?

-Chris

 

[slmcdonald7]

I repeat:

perhaps we could just drop all of this?

I have neither the time nor the desire to continue on with this nonsense. By default the flame war is over, you win. I'm sure it means more to you than it would to me.

 

[WmAx]

By default the flame war is over, you win.

I don't see what there is to win. Nor did I spot the flame war to which you refer.

Later.

-Chris

 

[Gatorchong]

I sometimes like to do the crossword in USA Today. It's loads easier than the NY Times.

Just thought I'd lighten things up a bit.

 

[sjdgpt]

Maybe I'll change my moniker to TwinTowerJetFlyer or something.

-Chris

Thanks for my laugh of the day. At least you didn't decide to call yourself "my momma raised a martyr".

 

[jaguars_fan]

USA Today Response

What else do you expect from USA Today? I have know for years that they don't read anything they print. All they are concerned with is, "Will it fit in that hole between the ads?"

I wrote to them asking them for Michelle's contact info, but I'm not going to hold my breath (blue's not my best color).

Here's what I got back from USA Today;

Sorry you feel that way. I thought Michelle's sidebar testing the
speaker cables was interesting. No, it wasn't scientific, but it didn't
pretend to be. She found cables can make a difference to an average
listener, despite what some "pros" say. I thought that added to the
story.

Regards,
Ray Goldbacher
Money Editor
USATODAY.com
http://www.usatoday.com

 

[gene]

She found cables can make a difference to an average
listener, despite what some "pros" say.

Again they missed the point. The very fact that her testing methodology was severely flawed, lead her to an erroneous conclusions that gave the reader the impression that the Monster cable “sounded” better and it was basically the same price (another misleading representation) as the generic cable (note she didn’t even specify the type/gauge of the cable). IMO. the article did nothing but to give the reader the impression that Monster Cable does offer improved performance over generic cable. The problem when sending a faulty message out to the “average consumer” is it further buttresses the marketing of the cable vendor influencing the unwary consumer to spend more money on cables when in fact it may be unneccessary.

Thanks for writing their editor on this topic.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Here's what I got back from USA Today;

Sorry you feel that way. I thought Michelle's sidebar testing the
speaker cables was interesting. No, it wasn't scientific, but it didn't
pretend to be. She found cables can make a difference to an average
listener, despite what some "pros" say. I thought that added to the
story.

Regards,
Ray Goldbacher
Money Editor
USATODAY.com
http://www.usatoday.com

Maybe you should respond back in kind that to the average reader, Sylvia Brown can talk to the dead as well, psychics can and do see into the future or the spirit world, holistic healers are for real, etc.

 

[jaguars_fan]

All good points, but at the end of the day, Monster is still going to sell boatloads of cables to the everyday guy and gal because that's what's on the shelves in every Wal-Mart, CC, BB, Magnolia Hi Fi, Tweeters, etc.

As I said once before, even if we know the truth, trying to go against Monster leads me to feel like a flea on the arse (yeah, I'm a Scot as well) of a 500 foot tall dog.

I am somewhat diappointed in the reply from Ray Goldblacher in that he doesn't care either. Big business.

 

[RedneckHunter]

Maybe I'll change my moniker to TwinTowerJetFlyer or something.

-Chris

LMAO...love it.

You know, all you need to do is get yourself a copy of MS FS 2004. With it's new "crash graphics" and NY Skyline, flying your 767 into the WTC all day long is kinda cool looking. In a warped kinda way.


Back on topic:

I was at Ultimate Electronics the other day looking at speaker wire. Of course as I am explaining to my GF about what I was doing, a salesman chimed in and tried to pitch me the most expensive crap they had. I set down what I had, laughed and walked out.