Upscaling - someone please explain...

[Electone]

I have been reading gushing reviews for Toshiba's new HD-DVD player and what a wonderful job it does upscaling standard-def DVD's to 1080i.

If the maximum resolution for a standard-definition DVD is 480i or p, how can it look any better when upscaled to 1080i?

 

[Jack Hammer]

On a similar note I'm curiuos how an upscaling dvd player (like Denons new 2930) compares picturewise to an actual HD or BD player?

 

[samNOISE]

Answer

A: Extrapolation - Create some more 'dots between the dots'

Andrew D.

 

[MDS]

Actually, it's interpolation.

 

[ironlung]

But MDS where does the new dots come from?

Upscaling is what you do when you want to make a regular DVD just like HD.

I had a crayon drawing from my 5 year old sister that I scanned at 5 dpi into my PC burned a DVD slideshow of it and played it on my upscaling DVD player. I though I was looking at the celing of the sistine chapel.


The same effect can be had with music also. Take a 44.1khz 16bit encoded CD 'upsample' through the fanciest 192khz 24bit processor and you end up with something sounding alot better than DVD-A or SACD.

 

[samNOISE]

Mds

MDS.

Yourse does sound more acurate, however, check the Websters Dictionary description of Extrapolation:

extrapolate
Main Entry: ex•trap•o•late
Pronunciation: ik-'stra-p&-"lAt
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): -lat•ed; -lat•ing
Etymology: Latin extra outside + English -polate (as in interpolate) -- more at EXTRA-
transitive verb
1 : to infer (values of a variable in an unobserved interval) from values within an already observed interval

Sounds like a bit of the same thing, semantices nonetheless...

Andrew D.

 

[Johnd]

Since the etymology is Latin, the definitions are rather simple.

Inter means inner, or in-between, so one would interpolate (extra dots) 5 dpi to 10 dpi by inserting 5 dots between the original 5 dpi.

Extra means outer, so one can extrapolate a broader statement from a narrow one.

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Goblins. Magic goblins that live in the upscaler.

 

[mtrycrafts]

The same effect can be had with music also. Take a 44.1khz 16bit encoded CD 'upsample' through the fanciest 192khz 24bit processor and you end up with something sounding alot better than DVD-A or SACD.

Uhm, let's not go there as that is not the case at all. 44.1 is at or near the threshold of detection while 480i or 480p is far from it.

 

[ironlung]

You can't turn crap into a pigs ear.......or something

Uhm, let's not go there as that is not the case at all. 44.1 is at or near the threshold of detection while 480i or 480p is far from it.

Shhhhhhhh...

Don't be such a spoiler Mtry. You'll ruin my campaign of mis-information. I want everyone confused and thinking they can upsample and or upscale a crap source and end up with audio video nirvana. That way I'll never get some ACTUAL HD video and sound.

They might realise that ANY audio or video source can't get any better than how it was sampled from the real world.

If I get a casette tape, of a tape, of a tape, of a tape dubbed between boomboxes of a Greatful Dead show, digitize it at 192khz 24bit, play it back on bees knees DVD-A player of the day do I end up with a high resolution reproduction of what it's like to be at the show?


Can I take a 100x100 pixel video clip "upscale" it in the cat's a$s processor du jour to 1920x1080 and call it high definition? That's making up alot of dots. The goblins are gonna cramp up working so hard.


Next time I'll try to use lots of smileys and arrows to make the sillyness clear.


I wonder how that thread debating witch reciever that guy should buy is going...

 

[MACCA350]

They might realise that ANY audio or video source can't get any better than how it was sampled from the real world.

Video, Yes it can. You can actually increase the resolution of already filmed material simply because as the camera moves information is seen in the area in between the resolution lines in the previous frames and then added to those frames with sufficient adjustment to blend within the new frame.

I watched a documentary of how they restored Australia's oldest surviving film where they explained this process among others. When you compare the original to the restored, trees in the background went from blurry blobs to clear trees that you could actually see the individual branches, and this was not faked resolution, the information was in the original for that clarity.

cheers

 

[ironlung]

I think we agree

....the information was in the original for that clarity.

cheers

Exactly! If the data is not on the original you can't pull it from nowhere.

 

[mikeyj92]

Is there a difference between upconversion and upscaling (or scaling) as I have seen each used to describe the ability on different receivers?

If so, could someone please explain it to me?

By the way, alcohol is a necessary component to upscale ugly chicks to hot ones at bar closing time.

 

[MDS]

'upconversion' is the generic term used to mean 'transcoding'; ie converting from one format to another. A receiver that can take a composite video input and output it over the component video outputs is said to be an upconverting receiver.

Upscaling is going from one resolution to another. All fixed pixel displays have to scale the input signal to their native resolution. Blowing up a low resolution image (standard definition) to a higher resolution (high definition) does not automatically make the video 'high definition' as the marketing dept of the 'upscaling' dvd players would like you to believe. The sarcasm of IronLung's posts might be lost on some but he speaks of the FACTS.

 

[goodman]

'upconversion' is the generic term used to mean 'transcoding'; ie converting from one format to another. A receiver that can take a composite video input and output it over the component video outputs is said to be an upconverting receiver.

Upscaling is going from one resolution to another. All fixed pixel displays have to scale the input signal to their native resolution. Blowing up a low resolution image (standard definition) to a higher resolution (high definition) does not automatically make the video 'high definition' as the marketing dept of the 'upscaling' dvd players would like you to believe. The sarcasm of IronLung's posts might be lost on some but he speaks of the FACTS.

So when mikeyj92 picks up a chick in a bar at closing time and brings her home, is he upscaling or upconverting?

 

[goodman]

Or has the alcohol caused him to downconvert?

 

[mikeyj92]

I think I am "upconverting" the chicks...or at least used to, since I am now happily married.

I was on the cutting edge of technology baby.

 

[mikeyj92]

Or has the alcohol caused him to downconvert?

No, it allowed my brain to upconvert the signal to carnally pleasing levels.

 

[rafaeldb]

Now what are the best DVD do to UPSCALING? without the Toshiba HD-DVD

 

[MDS]

So when mikeyj92 picks up a chick in a bar at closing time and brings her home, is he upscaling or upconverting?

Neither. At that time of night most guys are wearing their beer goggles and anything looks good.