upgradeitis - *cough* must seek help....

[edwelly]

So I have been tweaking my system for a few days now since I got my SVS PB10 sub (very happy with it) and I am starting to hear some straining in my current Paradigm system. While it is great for most stuff, I am starting to see it strain some. Last night I was listening to Tool, H to be exact, and I had my volume at -30 (goes to 0) and I knew it wasn't going to be good if I went past this - so I am now thinking about in the next few months getting some new speakers... I am wanting a nice 5 channel system (already have sub). Requirements are 50% HT and 50% music. I do not want diploes for rear. The systems I have "thought" about so far are:
1. Rocket by Onix - RS550, RSC200, RS250
2. Onix Ref. 1.5, Ref 100, Ref 0.5 (only becuase it's on sale
3. Axiom M22ti (x4), Vp 150
4. M60ti/M80ti, M22ti, VP150

Any suggestions? Thanks!!

 

[Sheep]

Before you buy all new speakers, I have a couple questions.

Do you have a power amp?

Do you listen to music in stereo or multi channel?

The effects you are hearing might be your reciever straining more then your speakers. I have a low end reciever and I compared DTS:Neo6 to stereo listening and found I could go louder because of the extra amp headroom. It was less compressed compared to multichannel. I assume you don't run bass to your mains, but if you do, try taking it off as it also frees up some amp.

Try this before you buy new speakers if applicatble.

SheepStar

 

[edwelly]

Do you have a power amp?
Do you listen to music in stereo or multi channel?
The effects you are hearing might be your reciever straining more then your speakers. I have a low end reciever and I compared DTS:Neo6 to stereo listening and found I could go louder because of the extra amp headroom. It was less compressed compared to multichannel. I assume you don't run bass to your mains, but if you do, try taking it off as it also frees up some amp.
Try this before you buy new speakers if applicatble.
SheepStar

No power amp. I feel that my receiver still has a lot left to give. Could be wrong...
If I switch it to Neo:Music, I have a lot more room but I am not thrilled with the sound on a lot of tracks.
All speakers are set to SMALL - Fronts are at 60hz, Center & Rears are 80hz and sub is at 60hz.
I do not NEED to get new stuff as my current stuff is more than enough, I am just thinking out loud about upgrading. I dare not mention this to my wife though...

 

[fergusonv]

I would also think that your AVR would strain before your speakers did. If nothing else I would get a amp and use the Sony as a pre-amp to see if it helped. If not, then take the amp back and if it does, then you have the answer.

 

[Sheep]

No power amp. I feel that my receiver still has a lot left to give. Could be wrong...
If I switch it to Neo:Music, I have a lot more room but I am not thrilled with the sound on a lot of tracks.
All speakers are set to SMALL - Fronts are at 60hz, Center & Rears are 80hz and sub is at 60hz.
I do not NEED to get new stuff as my current stuff is more than enough, I am just thinking out loud about upgrading. I dare not mention this to my wife though...

I meant DTS:Neo was worse compared to stereo. DTS uses all 5 channels, where stereo is 2. This way the amp has to power less, and will have more headroom.

SheepStar

 

[ssabripo]

I agree with Sheep....try an amp or better Rx (from a friend if necessary) and see if you still see similar traits in your system.

if you decide to upgrade the speakers, those are some fine choices....but I would definitely throw the swans into the mix:
www.theaudioinsider.com

hard to beat at those price points, and I've was able to audition some M60ti's, Rs750's, and others along the way....quick review I posted a while back:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=534264&highlight=ssabripo

good luck

 

[jaxvon]

I think you might want to try using a separate amp or an upgraded receiver. As well, I think you should also check out Phase Tech. You HAVE read my review, right?

 

[edwelly]

WOW - I never really thought that the receiver would be the weakest link here... I guess it's back to the drawing board.
My next step is to borrow better speakers and see what happens. Anybody want to stop by for some beer and tunes???

 

[Sheep]

WOW - I never really thought that the receiver would be the weakest link here... I guess it's back to the drawing board.
My next step is to borrow better speakers and see what happens. Anybody want to stop by for some beer and tunes???

If I lived neer you, HELL YES!


SheepStar

 

[jaxvon]

Not to insult your choices, but I've never found Sony to make good audio equipment (save for my headphones ). If you can find a good dealer, see if you can take in your mains and your receiver to do an A/B comparison. To do this right, however, you should use an SPL meter to level match. If you don't, the comparison will be unfair. An awesome dealer would let you borrow a receiver and try it out at home.

Seriously though, I think you should consider the Phase Tech PC-Series (particularly the PC9.1 speakers). Just be warned that they are 4-ohm speakers, so you'll need a separate amp or beefy receiver to drive them.

 

[edwelly]

If I lived neer you, HELL YES!


SheepStar

I knew you would my friend...

 

[edwelly]

Not to insult your choices, but I've never found Sony to make good audio equipment (save for my headphones ). If you can find a good dealer, see if you can take in your mains and your receiver to do an A/B comparison. To do this right, however, you should use an SPL meter to level match. If you don't, the comparison will be unfair. An awesome dealer would let you borrow a receiver and try it out at home.

Seriously though, I think you should consider the Phase Tech PC-Series (particularly the PC9.1 speakers). Just be warned that they are 4-ohm speakers, so you'll need a separate amp or beefy receiver to drive them.

No insult taken. I want you to be honest with me even if the end result is me running away crying like a little girl...
I am surprised on the Sony statement though. This thing "seems" like a power house. It is over 45lbs and never runs hot. There are some good feature as well. The reciever has seperate bass mang. feature as well as a lot of different level controls. BUT, if you think this may be the weakest link, then you may be right...
Suggestions then for say $600 range??? I really like the Outlaw models...

 

[edwelly]

I just read your review - good stuff there. Not to sure how I would feel on the 4 ohm part, though. I don't think I can afford speakers AND a new amp

 

[jaxvon]

Hmm, perhaps I spoke too soon. Most Sony products aren't tank-like. But if your receiver is that beefy, then it might be okay. Be aware though, the power supply only has 30,000uF of capacitance, which seems a bit low (to me anyway). But, like I said, see if you can do a level-matched A/B with your gear and a different receiver. If your receiver has pre-outs, then you could also look at external amps for the front and use the receiver to run the rest of the speakers. For instance, the PC3.1 II speaker from Phase Tech is very similar to the PC9.1 tower I reviewed, but is a 6-ohm speaker and can be used for center and surround duties.

 

[eirepaul]

No power amp. I feel that my receiver still has a lot left to give. Could be wrong...
If I switch it to Neo:Music, I have a lot more room but I am not thrilled with the sound on a lot of tracks.
All speakers are set to SMALL - Fronts are at 60hz, Center & Rears are 80hz and sub is at 60hz.
I do not NEED to get new stuff as my current stuff is more than enough, I am just thinking out loud about upgrading. I dare not mention this to my wife though...

edwelly - it has been my experience that Paradigm speakers perform somewhat better when fed some clean high power. I too noticed my speakers straining a little (I like to listen at loud levels quite a bit) until I added additional amplification. They responded much better following that. I have a pretty powerful receiver in the 3805, but loud multi-channel music was a bit too much for this combination. Otherwise it sounded great. Such is the interaction of some receivers and speakers combinations. It depends on how much you push it. When you noticed speaker straining in your system was it during high volume multi-channel music listening? Most receiver's ability to drive certain speakers adequately drops off significantly when all channels are running and if it's pushed.

 

[HookedOnSound]

WOW - I never really thought that the receiver would be the weakest link here... I guess it's back to the drawing board.
My next step is to borrow better speakers and see what happens. Anybody want to stop by for some beer and tunes???

Everybody is recommending you add/substitute power by means of a more powerful receiver or an ext. amp and you want to subsitute speakers? I think you should do some more research, you'll find Sony is not usually recommended for anything more than moderate listening volumes...

Good luck either way.

 

[edwelly]

When you noticed speaker straining in your system was it during high volume multi-channel music listening? Most receiver's ability to drive certain speakers adequately drops off significantly when all channels are running and if it's pushed.

This was during 2CH that I noticed it. But I am sure MULTI would to that as well...

 

[edwelly]

Everybody is recommending you add/substitute power by means of a more powerful receiver or an ext. amp and you want to subsitute speakers? I think you should do some more research, you'll find Sony is not usually recommended for anything more than moderate listening volumes...

Good luck either way.

It's easier to find a buddy to bring over his speakers vs. unhooking his amp so that's what I meant by that. I guess I am still in denial or shock... Didn't see that one coming...

 

[edwelly]

Hmm, perhaps I spoke too soon. Most Sony products aren't tank-like. But if your receiver is that beefy, then it might be okay.

no, you are probably right. I am just surprised that such a monster is realy such a wuss. I mean this thing is nice as I am comparing to a couple Pioneer and other Sony's I have had... And it seems to have had all of the characteristics of other high end receivers as far as weight, features and even the metal volume knob

 

[sokrman14]

I would start off by getting rid of a sony amp. They are not the greatest in the world. I would agree possibly using it as a pre amp, and getting a good amplifier, that should clean up the sound a lot, and provide you with more power. Eventually do away with the sony ES altogether