Upgrade stress

[M Code]

I think @M Code said they make the money some other way. I can never remember how they make the money.

The AVR3500 is on closeout, sold as low as $499 @ Best Buy.. @ Closeout pricing there is little profit $ for the brand or dealer but keep in mind the unit is built in Vietnam so yes the Inkel factory did make a minimum profit. To me the most significant point is the jumbo leap in unit sales quantity volume after the announced price reduction. The 3500 was introduced in 2018 and after its price reduction, unit sales volume increased 4X the volume done in 2018. @$499 the 3500 is an incredible deal and used by the dealer as a promotional step to the 3600 if the consumer wants the latest/greatest...

Just my $0.02....

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

The AVR3500 is on closeout, sold as low as $499 @ Best Buy.. @ Closeout pricing there is little profit $ for the brand or dealer but keep in mind the unit is built in Vietnam so yes the Inkel factory did make a minimum profit. To me the most significant point is the jumbo leap in unit sales quantity volume after the announced price reduction. The 3500 was introduced in 2018 and after its price reduction, unit sales volume increased 4X the volume done in 2018. @$499 the 3500 is an incredible deal and used by the dealer as a promotional step to the 3600 if the consumer wants the latest/greatest...

Just my $0.02....

So they make some profit with volume (increased by 4X)?

And the brand and dealers make profit by selling other things and services?

Kind of like advertisement?

 

[M Code]

So they make some profit with volume (increased by 4X)?

And the brand and dealers make profit by selling other things and services?

Kind of like advertisement?

Yes...
No profit in the 3500 itself for the brand , but it was and is a great promotion, building store traffic...
Brings the customers in and most likely they will buy the 3500, possibly step up to a higher Denon AVR and/or something else...
Essentially the 3500 is a loss leader for the brand.. Only the Inkel factory and the dealer make a marginal profit on the 3500.. But as I posted previously having the 3500 on promotion greatly increased the traffic and interest in the Denon brand and products.... @$499 the 3500 is a great value for its features that satisfies many consumers.. If the consumer wants more and the latest features they can step up to the 3600 or even higher but were initially pulled in by the 3500 promotion. This strategy is very similar what Pioneer and Marantz did many years back, come out with a new line and then announce major price decreases on last years models.. Back then a model typically could last up to 2 years, and when the original model is discontinued sales increase dramatically... In fact during the closeout, sales in a 2-4 month period can/will be higher than the entire sales total in 2 previous years... Unit sales volume climb significantly when its prices are dropped down big-time.. Also as the 3500 unit volume increased Denon got some further FOB reductions by the Inkel factory. In the Far East CE factories, when the production quantities climb then in turn the factories push back on their component parts subcontractors for further discounts... The 3500 has been highly reviewed and the model is well respected for its specifications and features, making it a good value...

Just my $0.02...

 

[Pogre]

@$499 the 3500 is an incredible deal and used by the dealer as a promotional step to the 3600 if the consumer wants the latest/greatest...

Just my $0.02....

That was my point from the beginning, tho the one I found was $549.

What's your take on the repositioned transformer and beefed up heat sinks in the 3600? Does this mean they found problems with the 3500 and "fixed it" with the 3600? Does that make the 3500 a piece of garbage that no one should touch even for free?

 

[snakeeyes]

That was my point from the beginning, tho the one I found was $549.

What's your take on the repositioned transformer and beefed up heat sinks in the 3600? Does this mean they found problems with the 3500 and "fixed it" with the 3600? Does that make the 3500 a piece of garbage that no one should touch even for free?

Yes.


Just kidding. LOL

 

[PENG]

That was my point from the beginning, tho the one I found was $549.

What's your take on the repositioned transformer and beefed up heat sinks in the 3600? Does this mean they found problems with the 3500 and "fixed it" with the 3600? Does that make the 3500 a piece of garbage that no one should touch even for free?

And again, that's the only reason why I always recommend the likes of the 3500, and 3400 in the past, or even 4500 instead of the so called integrated amps by Yamaha that could cost much more, just for Placebo effects induced better sound quality. It is really tough to beat the value of a $549 or even $599 3400/3500 for those who don't put too much value in the form follows function principle.

Regarding the transformer position and heat sinks, my guess is that it is more a standardization thing that allows them to offset the otherwise added costs. Doing it this way is much easier as they could base it almost entirely on the X4400/4500H's physical layout; and simply put a smaller power supply sized between the 3500 and 4500's and the same amp section of the 3500 but add more channels.

Thanks to standardization, can you identify the X3600H easily from the 3 layouts below? And, can you identify the other 2?

 

[3db]

Hi Audioholics.
Well it's about time to upgrade from my Yamaha rxv3800b, (my baby).
I've had her for nearly 15 years and I think I have her sounding really nice, I've put in a lot of work over the years and learned a lot.
I'm worried that I may not be able to expect much improvement regardless of how much I spend on a receiver. I'm hoping someone here can ease my fears. I will particularly miss the beautiful Yamaha orange of my display, I don't much like the blue colours but I can live with it.
I'm using REW and have SVS ultras.
It sounds really nice.
Am I approaching a point of diminishing returns?
Thanks guys

As you can see from my signature, I'm a big Yamaha fan and I would go that route again based on their build quality and QC. There stuff works and works well. Why do you want to upgrade? Is it to handle 4K pass through? Thats why I'm looking but I'm going the used route. If you dont care for the 4K video pass through, keep it. You will gain no sonic improvement except for more advanced room EQ. I'm using an RX-V1500, pre HDMI model in the bedroom and I see no need upgrade it there. The system in the great room is where I want to upgrade to hande 4K video pass through.

 

[PENG]

Another question for @M Code , why is that lately Canada had better pricing for D+M AVRs?? I haven't seen such reversal for a very long time. Even now, the regular prices here are still much higher than those in the US, but when they were/on sale, it reversed/reverses in a big way.

Examples:

Marantz SR7013 had been on C$1,199 to C$1249 several times this year so far.

Denon AVR-X3600H has been down to C$798 for quite a few days now and still is.

CAD/USD (CADUSD=X) Live Rate, Chart & News - Yahoo Finance

Find the latest CAD/USD (CADUSD=X) currency exchange rate, plus historical data, charts, relevant news and more

finance.yahoo.com

C$ to US$: 0.7539

So the SR7013 had been (last time was in October this year) at C$1199, that is 1199*0.7532 = US$ 903.00
Links posted before.

[Best Buy] Marantz SR7013 Receiver $1199 (Save $1800) - RedFlagDeals.com Forums

Pretty good deal. https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/ma ... r/13185758

forums.redflagdeals.com

AVR-X3600H has been at C$798, that is 798*.7532 = US$ 601.00

All Categories - Shop | Visions Electronics Canada

www.visions.ca

Denon AVRX3600H 9.2 Channel 4K Ultra HD Network AV Receiver | Best Buy Canada

Engage in home entertainment the way it was meant to be experienced with the Denon 4K Ultra HD network AV receiver. With 9.2 channels each powered by 105W at 8Ohms, combined with a host of cutting-edge technologies, your favourite movies, sports, music, and games will burst vividly to life for...

www.bestbuy.ca

Same at Amazon.ca, Newegg.ca etc.......

Someone close to the border should just driver over to near by BB or Amazon pick up points.

 

[snakeeyes]

And the new HDMI 2.1 coming out next year will probably force major markdowns on HDMI 2.0 gear by next Nov/Dec. (although probably better to wait an additional year for 2.1 gear holiday markdowns)

 

[3db]

Peng... Are you complaining about lower sales prices?

I'm just too tickled pink that it was this way. On a tasting note. thanks to Trump, we'll be paying less for our Scotch than our US friends.

 

[Truthslayer]

That was my point from the beginning, tho the one I found was $549.

What's your take on the repositioned transformer and beefed up heat sinks in the 3600? Does this mean they found problems with the 3500 and "fixed it" with the 3600? Does that make the 3500 a piece of garbage that no one should touch even for free?

Pogre, I didn't know if you had the opportunity to read audioscience's review on the 3500. Interesting.

Denon AVR-X3500H AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3500H Home Theater Audio Video Receiver (AVR). It is kindly loaned to me by a member. The AVR-X3500H is a 2018 model but it is still available from Amazon for US $599 despite having a retail price of US $999. If it performs, this is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[M Code]

Another question for @M Code , why is that lately Canada had better pricing for D+M AVRs?? I haven't seen such reversal for a very long time. Even now, the regular prices here are still much higher than those in the US, but when they were/on sale, it reversed/reverses in a big way.

Examples:

Marantz SR7013 had been on C$1,199 to C$1249 several times this year so far.

Denon AVR-X3600H has been down to C$798 for quite a few days now and still is.

CAD/USD (CADUSD=X) Live Rate, Chart & News - Yahoo Finance

Find the latest CAD/USD (CADUSD=X) currency exchange rate, plus historical data, charts, relevant news and more

finance.yahoo.com

C$ to US$: 0.7539

So the SR7013 had been (last time was in October this year) at C$1199, that is 1199*0.7532 = US$ 903.00
Links posted before.

[Best Buy] Marantz SR7013 Receiver $1199 (Save $1800) - RedFlagDeals.com Forums

Pretty good deal. https://www.bestbuy.ca/en-ca/product/ma ... r/13185758

forums.redflagdeals.com

AVR-X3600H has been at C$798, that is 798*.7532 = US$ 601.00

All Categories - Shop | Visions Electronics Canada

www.visions.ca

Denon AVRX3600H 9.2 Channel 4K Ultra HD Network AV Receiver | Best Buy Canada

Engage in home entertainment the way it was meant to be experienced with the Denon 4K Ultra HD network AV receiver. With 9.2 channels each powered by 105W at 8Ohms, combined with a host of cutting-edge technologies, your favourite movies, sports, music, and games will burst vividly to life for...

www.bestbuy.ca

Same at Amazon.ca, Newegg.ca etc.......

Someone close to the border should just driver over to near by BB or Amazon pick up points.

I can only speculate...
United Sound now has its own sales branch in Canada, typically when a brand is sold through a distributor there is another significant markup in the distribution channel raising the final sell price. So basically United Sound has to conclude where to make their profit corporate USA or Canada, assuming Denon shipments are made direct to Canada. Since Canada is right beside the USA any aggressive product pricing here is known very quickly in Canada. But a major challenge for United Sound and Denon products remains.. How to decrease their FOB unit buying cost. Since they buy through Inkel-Vietnam their entry to mid-level products, (which is about 75% of their total sales) Inkel has significant markup from factory cost to FOB pricing to United Sound. Note that as I previously mentioned 1st....
The major objective of United Sound in bidding for Onkyo/Pioneer was to get their own manufacturing locations in Malaysia as to save the factory markups. Another challenge for United Sound are Marantz sales especially in Canada, Marantz sales are quite small compared to that of Denon.
IMHO.. the Marantz product lineup sold in Canada has far too many models, United Sound needs to decide where to position the Marantz brand either go up-market with higher cost products sold through independent specialists or broaden their distribution selling more mid-range products through big-box, super stores and internet sellers. But here they need to be careful as not to compete too strongly vs. their Denon brand. Anyway, the guys inside United Sound are well-seasoned/experienced execs and given enough time and $, they should be able to figure out how to adjust their product, marketing and sourcing challenges as to maximize their bottom line....

Just my $0.02...

 

[Pogre]

Pogre, I didn't know if you had the opportunity to read audioscience's review on the 3500. Interesting.

Denon AVR-X3500H AVR Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Denon AVR-X3500H Home Theater Audio Video Receiver (AVR). It is kindly loaned to me by a member. The AVR-X3500H is a 2018 model but it is still available from Amazon for US $599 despite having a retail price of US $999. If it performs, this is...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Looks like he says that despite some forgivable flaws it's a "decent option" at $999 (time of review). That is interesting. I guess that makes $549 a fantastic price then. Even incredible at $499 like @M Code says in post #101 in bold print at the top of the page. He's about as knowledgeable as it gets 'round these here parts when it comes to AVRs. Way above my pay scale.

 

[PENG]

So no one dare take a guess at least, on which one is the X3600H (post#106)?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So no one dare take a guess at least, on which one is the X3600H (post#106)?

Nope. But pictures 3 and 6 are Marantz!

 

[KEW]

So no one dare take a guess at least, on which one is the X3600H (post#106)?

Your point was well made! I had no reason to guess. I was clueless, other than the shape of the front panel of the Marantz units. Of course I'm sure I could go research it and figure it out , but what's the point in that ???
So I just looked at your post and thought "yeah, he's not kidding"!

It is a little curious that Denon puts their name on the transformer and Marantz leaves their's blank !

 

[Verdinut]

It is a little curious that Denon puts their name on the transformer and Marantz leaves their's blank !

Their HDAM circuit is expensive and they have to cut somewhere!

 

[PENG]

Your point was well made! I had no reason to guess. I was clueless, other than the shape of the front panel of the Marantz units. Of course I'm sure I could go research it and figure it out , but what's the point in that ???
So I just looked at your post and thought "yeah, he's not kidding"!

It is a little curious that Denon puts their name on the transformer and Marantz leaves their's blank !

Hint:. Transformer size! I double checked their ext dimensions, the 2 Denons are identical.

 

[PENG]

Their HDAM circuit is expensive and they have to cut somewhere!

Agreed, but that's already accounted for in their higher list price. And don't forget the 7.1 analog inputs that cost cost money too.

 

[Truthslayer]

So no one dare take a guess at least, on which one is the X3600H (post#106)?

Peng, I didn't think it would be fair to take a guess since I already knew the 3600. it's the middle one.
Top one looks like the avr -x4500h (maybe )
Bottom one looks like Marantz SR7013