upgrade amp, or speaker

[gholt]

I have a dilemia. I have been looking at adding seperate amp(s) to my system.

I have the Onkyo 805, with RBH T1 SE speakers. Panny 605 BR, & Panny AX200U PJ.

I have also talked with RBH about upgrading the speakers in my boxes to the reference series. They were thinking that the upgrade would be ~ $1,000. The cost to get a decent amp to run these speakers for an Emotiva Amp could be ~ $500 - $800.

So, my question would be. What would be the better upgrade, amp, speaker, or other area in your opinions. (It's always nice to spend OPM).

 

[skers_54]

Gene said in his review of the T2 that the T1 sattelite is a very benign load, so your amp should be ok. You didn't mention a sub, so that could be something to look into getting or upgrading.

 

[gholt]

Already have the Sub. It is part of the T2. I also have a BA 12" sub that I put in the back of the room.

The model is 1010 SEP. So, I have two Subs that have two 10" woofers each. ( 4 up front an 1 rear). Also, I have the surrounds, LR & R(LR). RBH 61 SE.

 

[skers_54]

Already have the Sub. It is part of the T2. I also have a BA 12" sub that I put in the back of the room.

The model is 1010 SEP. So, I have two Subs that have two 10" woofers each. ( 4 up front an 1 rear). Also, I have the surrounds, LR & R(LR). RBH 61 SE.

Ok. How big is your room? How loud do you listen? What do you find lacking about your setup? We'll be better help if we can figure out what you want to get out of an upgrade (even if it's just to get the bug to stop biting ).

Gene really liked those speakers, and they measured really well. However, he also really like RBH's signature stuff. $1000 seems like a very reasonable cost to upgrade, especially given the sticker price.

 

[adwilk]

Upgrade upgrade upgrade if you're spending the money. The difference you would hear from adding additional amplification would be slim, if any. Speakers are what you actually hear, changing those will make a difference.

 

[gholt]

Ok. How big is your room? How loud do you listen? What do you find lacking about your setup? We'll be better help if we can figure out what you want to get out of an upgrade (even if it's just to get the bug to stop biting ).

Gene really liked those speakers, and they measured really well. However, he also really like RBH's signature stuff. $1000 seems like a very reasonable cost to upgrade, especially given the sticker price.

Room is 12' by 14' approx. See attached file for better look. I'm not sure of the db level, but the wife says it is pretty loud when I watch movies. The receiver says it is from -10db to 0 db for movies. I don't really find anything lacking in the system, but I bought the speakers, pj and BR last year, so I guess I am just feeling the upgrade bug.

I just painted the wall with the silverscreen paint. That made a big difference. The $1,000 upgrade, is really good, also RBH's office is close by > 10 miles, so I don't have to worry about shipping damage while these are being shipped.

It may be nice to get a better PJ, but I think I would have to spend $5k to get to a good 1080P PJ. Mine is just 720P. It seems to work OK for me.

 

[gholt]

Here is the pic of the room.

 

[chris357]

my vote is for the amp, i have always been blown away by how much difference a good amplifier makes especially over a reciever!!!

 

[KEW]

Definitely speakers.
Your receiver is not weak and when I tested upgrading my 100WPC Marantz receiver to a separate amp in a similar size room, I was disappointed not to realize any difference in SQ. You may well end up with a new amp down the road just to be completely confident (and keeping the power draw down may let the Onkyo run cooler), but the speakers are an unquestionable improvement!

 

[gholt]

my vote is for the amp, i have always been blown away by how much difference a good amplifier makes especially over a reciever!!!

I like amps, not sure if they would make the system much louder as these speakers a pretty efficent. 91db / 1 mtr, but if they improve the quality of the sound, now that is a different story.

 

[PENG]

Since you have the 805 (a very powerful receiver) and 2 subs in a not too larger room you should do better with speaker upgrade. However, if placebo works on you, then the amp upgrade would make sense too. Regardless of placebo, more power do help if you listen at the -10 to 0 level, just that the ref series speakers would likely make a bigger difference.

 

[chris357]

those are pretty nice speakers, so where do you go from there? and I woudl not do a lateral move power wise, isnt that the whole reason to get a seperate amp is to get more power? every time I have upgraded amps which was always to a more powerful amp I have heard notable improvement. not sure I woudl get much better from where I'm at speakers wouod be the next big upgrade..

 

[chris357]

so buy a used amp and try it out if you dont hear a difference sell it.

 

[gholt]

so buy a used amp and try it out if you dont hear a difference sell it.

That may be a good option too. I'll have to look at that. I did the calc, and unless I get one powerfull amp, the most db I would get with the emotiva would be ~ 115db. @ 256 w, and at 512 w It only goes to ~ 118db. But I think 118db would be pretty loud.

So, I guess I need to get a really big amp(s) or upgrade the speakers.

 

[chris357]

thats the glory of used amps they last a long long time and dont change very much .. look at a b&k 2220 2 ch with 220 wpc at 8ohm nice amp and pretty low cost.

 

[PENG]

That may be a good option too. I'll have to look at that. I did the calc, and unless I get one powerfull amp, the most db I would get with the emotiva would be ~ 115db. @ 256 w, and at 512 w It only goes to ~ 118db. But I think 118db would be pretty loud.

So, I guess I need to get a really big amp(s) or upgrade the speakers.

I don't have a krell but my amp can push 500W into 4 ohms yet in all my measurements taken I could not even come close to putting 100W (instantaneous) peak into my speakers. I did not go pass 102 dB peak either as I could not stand the level without wearing hearing protection. Do you really listen to 115 dB (peak) in your not too big room? If you do then you are in trouble either way.

Logically, if you upgrade the speakers first you for sure will hear a difference. Then you will convince yourself momentarily that to get the best of the new and improved speakers you need a big amp. If you upgrade the amp first, once placebo effect subsided you will start second guessing, resulted in doing some A/B level matched tests and/or you may even ask your wife/girl friend to tell you if they hear a difference (improvement). That, invariably will lead you to belive you should have upgraded the speakers, and then.......

There is no way out, you have to, or end up doing both.

 

[highfigh]

That may be a good option too. I'll have to look at that. I did the calc, and unless I get one powerfull amp, the most db I would get with the emotiva would be ~ 115db. @ 256 w, and at 512 w It only goes to ~ 118db. But I think 118db would be pretty loud.

So, I guess I need to get a really big amp(s) or upgrade the speakers.

"...and at 512 w It only goes to ~ 118db"? Do you know how freaking loud 118dB is?

What is your actual goal- sound quantity, or sound quality? If you like your speakers and you're not using all of the amp's power but want an improvement in sound quality, do something with the acoustics. A 12'x 14' room doesn't need a lot of power for high SPL. High SPL in a room that may have only fair or poor acoustics sounds like crap.

 

[walter duque]

Do you know how freaking loud 118dB is?

Highfigh what's up? My wife just went out for a few minutes and I hit 130db+, and the amps don't clip, now that's the beauty of power. 6400 watts total power.

 

[gholt]

"...and at 512 w It only goes to ~ 118db"? Do you know how freaking loud 118dB is?

What is your actual goal- sound quantity, or sound quality? If you like your speakers and you're not using all of the amp's power but want an improvement in sound quality, do something with the acoustics. A 12'x 14' room doesn't need a lot of power for high SPL. High SPL in a room that may have only fair or poor acoustics sounds like crap.

After I type in the db, the thought came, (Just a dose of reality How loud 118db would be.)

The goal would be quality. So, it may be time to look at speaker traps etc. as well?

 

[skers_54]

After I type in the db, the thought came, (Just a dose of reality How loud 118db would be.)

The goal would be quality. So, it may be time to look at speaker traps etc. as well?

Acoustics would be a great way to upgrade. The room is about half of what we hear, possibly even more in a smaller room like yours. You can get some nice looking and performing treatments for a grand. GIK, ATS, and Ready Acoustics are a few places that come to mind (there are plenty of others too).