annunaki Moderator Dec 9, 2003 4,540 0 113 Wausau, WI Mar 9, 2009 #421 I am wondering who will throw down the "stunner" lap on the last day of testing so we can see if someone was sandbagging all through testing. A la Ferrari in '04. There were some reports that BMW was sandbagging, but they have topped the sheets a couple of times now. Macca is looking to potentially be in a bit of trouble given their pace, but then again, it is only testing.
I am wondering who will throw down the "stunner" lap on the last day of testing so we can see if someone was sandbagging all through testing. A la Ferrari in '04. There were some reports that BMW was sandbagging, but they have topped the sheets a couple of times now. Macca is looking to potentially be in a bit of trouble given their pace, but then again, it is only testing.
S sploo Full Audioholic Apr 19, 2005 448 0 16 West Yorkshire, UK Mar 10, 2009 #422 annunaki said: Macca is looking to potentially be in a bit of trouble given their pace, but then again, it is only testing. Click to expand... Yea, that is interesting. I was just reading an article alluding to that. I remember a quote from Webber, just a few weeks ago, noting that the one thing he'd spotted was that it was obvious that the McLaren was seriously quick! I guess we won't really know the full picture until a couple of races into the season.
annunaki said: Macca is looking to potentially be in a bit of trouble given their pace, but then again, it is only testing. Click to expand... Yea, that is interesting. I was just reading an article alluding to that. I remember a quote from Webber, just a few weeks ago, noting that the one thing he'd spotted was that it was obvious that the McLaren was seriously quick! I guess we won't really know the full picture until a couple of races into the season.
STRONGBADF1 Audioholic Spartan Jul 4, 2005 7,482 0 113 When you own the world you're always home Mar 10, 2009 #423 Do they post section times? It's not uncommon for teams to run different hot sections times and then extrapolate hot lap times from the data.
Do they post section times? It's not uncommon for teams to run different hot sections times and then extrapolate hot lap times from the data.
annunaki Moderator Dec 9, 2003 4,540 0 113 Wausau, WI Mar 10, 2009 #424 STRONGBADF1 said: Do they post section times? It's not uncommon for teams to run different hot sections times and then extrapolate hot lap times from the data. Click to expand... One has to get the timing from the circuit they are at to figure that out. I wish they did though. It was my understanding that is what Ferrari did for almost all of the '04 testing season. They could extrapolate a very accurate lap time by stringing together each of the fast sector times. The problem is that many of the teams have caught onto this so they have to do it differently now. Adding additional weight and then correcting the times is an option as is running with heavy fuel to mask true pace. The other option is to rev limit the engine 2K lower or something as well. Though other teams may use acoustic analysis with cars to see if any one is snadbagging there also. Schumacher was probably the best at masking the true pace of the car. I remember practice sessions before qualy where he would be 3rd or so on the time sheets, perhaps even lower, and then be quickest for pole by 2 tenths or so.
STRONGBADF1 said: Do they post section times? It's not uncommon for teams to run different hot sections times and then extrapolate hot lap times from the data. Click to expand... One has to get the timing from the circuit they are at to figure that out. I wish they did though. It was my understanding that is what Ferrari did for almost all of the '04 testing season. They could extrapolate a very accurate lap time by stringing together each of the fast sector times. The problem is that many of the teams have caught onto this so they have to do it differently now. Adding additional weight and then correcting the times is an option as is running with heavy fuel to mask true pace. The other option is to rev limit the engine 2K lower or something as well. Though other teams may use acoustic analysis with cars to see if any one is snadbagging there also. Schumacher was probably the best at masking the true pace of the car. I remember practice sessions before qualy where he would be 3rd or so on the time sheets, perhaps even lower, and then be quickest for pole by 2 tenths or so.
STRONGBADF1 Audioholic Spartan Jul 4, 2005 7,482 0 113 When you own the world you're always home Mar 10, 2009 #425 annunaki said: One has to get the timing from the circuit they are at to figure that out. I wish they did though. It was my understanding that is what Ferrari did for almost all of the '04 testing season. They could extrapolate a very accurate lap time by stringing together each of the fast sector times. The problem is that many of the teams have caught onto this so they have to do it differently now. Adding additional weight and then correcting the times is an option as is running with heavy fuel to mask true pace. The other option is to rev limit the engine 2K lower or something as well. Though other teams may use acoustic analysis with cars to see if any one is snadbagging there also. Schumacher was probably the best at masking the true pace of the car. I remember practice sessions before qualy where he would be 3rd or so on the time sheets, perhaps even lower, and then be quickest for pole by 2 tenths or so. Click to expand... I'm getting itchy...all this deceptiveness...I can't wait until the season starts!
annunaki said: One has to get the timing from the circuit they are at to figure that out. I wish they did though. It was my understanding that is what Ferrari did for almost all of the '04 testing season. They could extrapolate a very accurate lap time by stringing together each of the fast sector times. The problem is that many of the teams have caught onto this so they have to do it differently now. Adding additional weight and then correcting the times is an option as is running with heavy fuel to mask true pace. The other option is to rev limit the engine 2K lower or something as well. Though other teams may use acoustic analysis with cars to see if any one is snadbagging there also. Schumacher was probably the best at masking the true pace of the car. I remember practice sessions before qualy where he would be 3rd or so on the time sheets, perhaps even lower, and then be quickest for pole by 2 tenths or so. Click to expand... I'm getting itchy...all this deceptiveness...I can't wait until the season starts!
R ragged Senior Audioholic Jan 6, 2006 546 0 0 Mar 10, 2009 #426 Honda still up there in lap times, 3rd fastest lap by Barrichello. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090310141834.shtml Also check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiLoANg6nNY
Honda still up there in lap times, 3rd fastest lap by Barrichello. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090310141834.shtml Also check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiLoANg6nNY
STRONGBADF1 Audioholic Spartan Jul 4, 2005 7,482 0 113 When you own the world you're always home Mar 10, 2009 #427 ragged said: Honda still up there in lap times, 3rd fastest lap by Barrichello. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090310141834.shtml Also check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiLoANg6nNY Click to expand... Wow, thats very cool! (yea I'm a geek)
ragged said: Honda still up there in lap times, 3rd fastest lap by Barrichello. http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090310141834.shtml Also check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiLoANg6nNY Click to expand... Wow, thats very cool! (yea I'm a geek)
S sploo Full Audioholic Apr 19, 2005 448 0 16 West Yorkshire, UK Mar 11, 2009 #428 annunaki said: ...Though other teams may use acoustic analysis with cars to see if any one is snadbagging there also... Click to expand... I remember reading a great article about Honda's racing motorbikes dominating (what I think was the old 500cc class) and how teams were using acoustic analysis to determine the firing pattern they were using. Sometimes the espionage is probably as advanced at the machine design! ragged said: Also check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiLoANg6nNY Click to expand... Great video. I was at a Benetton talk a few years ago, and someone asked if, with all the data from the cars, it would now be possible to get a car to drive itself round a track. The guy paused, smiled, and said "No comment". BTW Some more info on McLaren's possible speed problems: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/f1mole/2009/03/troubled-times-at-mclaren.html
annunaki said: ...Though other teams may use acoustic analysis with cars to see if any one is snadbagging there also... Click to expand... I remember reading a great article about Honda's racing motorbikes dominating (what I think was the old 500cc class) and how teams were using acoustic analysis to determine the firing pattern they were using. Sometimes the espionage is probably as advanced at the machine design! ragged said: Also check this out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiLoANg6nNY Click to expand... Great video. I was at a Benetton talk a few years ago, and someone asked if, with all the data from the cars, it would now be possible to get a car to drive itself round a track. The guy paused, smiled, and said "No comment". BTW Some more info on McLaren's possible speed problems: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/f1mole/2009/03/troubled-times-at-mclaren.html
majorloser Moderator Aug 7, 2005 7,071 0 113 Florida aka: Hurricane Central Mar 11, 2009 #429 sploo said: BTW Some more info on McLaren's possible speed problems: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/f1mole/2009/03/troubled-times-at-mclaren.html Click to expand... "The first sign that something was wrong came when the cars of world champion Hamilton and his team-mate Heikki Kovalainen were fitted with McLaren's 2008 rear wing during tests in Portugal and Jerez in January and February." In other words, the design they stole from Ferarri works.
sploo said: BTW Some more info on McLaren's possible speed problems: http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/f1mole/2009/03/troubled-times-at-mclaren.html Click to expand... "The first sign that something was wrong came when the cars of world champion Hamilton and his team-mate Heikki Kovalainen were fitted with McLaren's 2008 rear wing during tests in Portugal and Jerez in January and February." In other words, the design they stole from Ferarri works.
S sploo Full Audioholic Apr 19, 2005 448 0 16 West Yorkshire, UK Mar 11, 2009 #430 majorloser said: In other words, the design they stole from Ferarri works. Click to expand... Ooooh. B*tchy
majorloser said: In other words, the design they stole from Ferarri works. Click to expand... Ooooh. B*tchy
R ragged Senior Audioholic Jan 6, 2006 546 0 0 Mar 11, 2009 #431 annunaki said: I am wondering who will throw down the "stunner" lap Click to expand... http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090311173936_1.shtml Barcelona - 11/03/2009 1 . J. Button - Brawn GP Mercedes BGP001 - 1:19.127 (+ 0.000 ) - 130 laps 2 . F. Massa - Ferrari F60 - 1:20.168 (+ 1.041 ) - 109 laps 3 . R. Kubica - BMW Sauber F1.09 - 1:20.217 (+ 1.090 ) - 114 laps 4 . T. Glock - Toyota TF109 - 1:20.410 (+ 1.283 ) - 132 laps 5 . F. Alonso - Renault R29 - 1:20.863 (+ 1.736 ) - 107 laps 6 . S. Vettel - Red Bull Renault RB5 - 1:21.165 (+ 2.038 ) - 102 laps 7 . N. Rosberg - Williams Toyota FW31 - 1:21.324 (+ 2.197 ) - 89 laps 8 . G. Fisichella - Force India Mercedes VJM02 - 1:21.545 (+ 2.418 ) - 97 laps 9 . S. Buemi - Toro Rosso Ferrari STR4 - 1:21.569 (+ 2.442 ) - 145 laps 10 . L. Hamilton - McLaren Mercedes MP4-24 - 1:21.657 (+ 2.530 ) - 86 laps. I think Button just did. Just over 1 sec clear of 2nd fastest. I think tomorrow is the last day for group testing, so we will see. Man, this is getting exciting, season opener not too far away now!
annunaki said: I am wondering who will throw down the "stunner" lap Click to expand... http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headlines/news/detail/090311173936_1.shtml Barcelona - 11/03/2009 1 . J. Button - Brawn GP Mercedes BGP001 - 1:19.127 (+ 0.000 ) - 130 laps 2 . F. Massa - Ferrari F60 - 1:20.168 (+ 1.041 ) - 109 laps 3 . R. Kubica - BMW Sauber F1.09 - 1:20.217 (+ 1.090 ) - 114 laps 4 . T. Glock - Toyota TF109 - 1:20.410 (+ 1.283 ) - 132 laps 5 . F. Alonso - Renault R29 - 1:20.863 (+ 1.736 ) - 107 laps 6 . S. Vettel - Red Bull Renault RB5 - 1:21.165 (+ 2.038 ) - 102 laps 7 . N. Rosberg - Williams Toyota FW31 - 1:21.324 (+ 2.197 ) - 89 laps 8 . G. Fisichella - Force India Mercedes VJM02 - 1:21.545 (+ 2.418 ) - 97 laps 9 . S. Buemi - Toro Rosso Ferrari STR4 - 1:21.569 (+ 2.442 ) - 145 laps 10 . L. Hamilton - McLaren Mercedes MP4-24 - 1:21.657 (+ 2.530 ) - 86 laps. I think Button just did. Just over 1 sec clear of 2nd fastest. I think tomorrow is the last day for group testing, so we will see. Man, this is getting exciting, season opener not too far away now!
annunaki Moderator Dec 9, 2003 4,540 0 113 Wausau, WI Mar 11, 2009 #432 It is looking like BrawnGP may be a serious contender at this point. Could Button pick up a few wins this season?? Time will tell. McLaren looks to potentially be hurting at this point. I find it hard for them to be sandbagging this late in the game. Sandbagging is staying within the top 4-5 consistently. Being competitive, yet not showing the full capability. Lagging near the bottom is not encouraging. Though they did top at a test or two earlier on, though it was wet at those I believe.
It is looking like BrawnGP may be a serious contender at this point. Could Button pick up a few wins this season?? Time will tell. McLaren looks to potentially be hurting at this point. I find it hard for them to be sandbagging this late in the game. Sandbagging is staying within the top 4-5 consistently. Being competitive, yet not showing the full capability. Lagging near the bottom is not encouraging. Though they did top at a test or two earlier on, though it was wet at those I believe.
R ragged Senior Audioholic Jan 6, 2006 546 0 0 Mar 12, 2009 #433 Button/Brawn GP are on a serious run of good times. Mclaren really do have a lot of work to do if they can't get to the top of the timesheets. I'm happy for Button, but worried for Hamilton. Although I love it when there's a shake-up at the top. Statements like this from Ron, "But it's early days and we've still got quite a bit of testing to do and quite a bit of development to reflect through into our pace." makes me think Mclaren are in serious trouble. Do you realize Melbourne is 2 weeks away! Then consider the restrictions on testing, when the season starts, it's run what you brung Last edited: Mar 12, 2009
Button/Brawn GP are on a serious run of good times. Mclaren really do have a lot of work to do if they can't get to the top of the timesheets. I'm happy for Button, but worried for Hamilton. Although I love it when there's a shake-up at the top. Statements like this from Ron, "But it's early days and we've still got quite a bit of testing to do and quite a bit of development to reflect through into our pace." makes me think Mclaren are in serious trouble. Do you realize Melbourne is 2 weeks away! Then consider the restrictions on testing, when the season starts, it's run what you brung
S sploo Full Audioholic Apr 19, 2005 448 0 16 West Yorkshire, UK Mar 12, 2009 #434 annunaki said: It is looking like BrawnGP may be a serious contender at this point. Could Button pick up a few wins this season?? Click to expand... I did wonder (a few posts back) if Honda actually had the basis of a reasonable car in there. They did start developing it really early, and probably had a lot of work done before Honda pulled the plug. Even accounting for that, I understand Honda continued to pay salaries, because it would've been more expensive to lay everyone off (as opposed to keeping them on and sell the team). So, surely they were continuing to develop the car as best they could? I certainly hope Brawn do well, though I'm waiting for a call from Ron Dennis, as I've offered to glue a couple of sheets of MDF together to make them a rear wing. Got to be better than the one they've got right now .
annunaki said: It is looking like BrawnGP may be a serious contender at this point. Could Button pick up a few wins this season?? Click to expand... I did wonder (a few posts back) if Honda actually had the basis of a reasonable car in there. They did start developing it really early, and probably had a lot of work done before Honda pulled the plug. Even accounting for that, I understand Honda continued to pay salaries, because it would've been more expensive to lay everyone off (as opposed to keeping them on and sell the team). So, surely they were continuing to develop the car as best they could? I certainly hope Brawn do well, though I'm waiting for a call from Ron Dennis, as I've offered to glue a couple of sheets of MDF together to make them a rear wing. Got to be better than the one they've got right now .
annunaki Moderator Dec 9, 2003 4,540 0 113 Wausau, WI Mar 12, 2009 #435 Brawn GP quickest again today! This time with Barichello. They are either hard up for sponsors or they have a pretty quick car on their hands. Preferably the latter. I would like to see lap by lap times for them. He broke into the 1:18.9 second zone. 2 tenths quicker than Button yesterday. http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/testresults.php?testID=1091 I can't wait until qualy on the 28th to rid us all of the speculation. I really have the itch now for the season to start!
Brawn GP quickest again today! This time with Barichello. They are either hard up for sponsors or they have a pretty quick car on their hands. Preferably the latter. I would like to see lap by lap times for them. He broke into the 1:18.9 second zone. 2 tenths quicker than Button yesterday. http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/testresults.php?testID=1091 I can't wait until qualy on the 28th to rid us all of the speculation. I really have the itch now for the season to start!
R ragged Senior Audioholic Jan 6, 2006 546 0 0 Mar 12, 2009 #436 Yeah I read that today. I think they are for real, fast is fast, sponsors or not, everybody wants to be fast. I mean, they are still well faster that 2nd place. I can't wait.
Yeah I read that today. I think they are for real, fast is fast, sponsors or not, everybody wants to be fast. I mean, they are still well faster that 2nd place. I can't wait.
S sploo Full Audioholic Apr 19, 2005 448 0 16 West Yorkshire, UK Mar 12, 2009 #437 I guess it's also worth noting that the Brawn cars have been doing plenty of laps, so they appear to have decent reliability too. Given they are of course Hondas with a different badge, I wonder if anyone in Japan is going to be regretting pulling out...
I guess it's also worth noting that the Brawn cars have been doing plenty of laps, so they appear to have decent reliability too. Given they are of course Hondas with a different badge, I wonder if anyone in Japan is going to be regretting pulling out...
S sploo Full Audioholic Apr 19, 2005 448 0 16 West Yorkshire, UK Mar 13, 2009 #438 As suspected... http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7941572.stm
R ragged Senior Audioholic Jan 6, 2006 546 0 0 Mar 13, 2009 #439 BrawnGP has set the paddock on fire, everyone is worried, I only hope their speed is for real. If Mclaren don't improve, I don't see how they have a chance this year with the limits on in season testing. They need to find 2 seconds in 1 week! See what happens when you lose Newey! All I can say is, if Alonso/Massa say BrawnGP is fast, I believe it. Even if BrawnGP were running light fuel and no ballast, if/when they finally add fuel and ballast they will still be fast, it's not like that's going to add 3 seconds to their time. They were 1 second clear of 2nd place, seriously, that's no joke. And another thing, the name BrawnGP doesn't quite roll of the tongue does it? Should have been Ross Racing or something like that, BrawnGP sounds slow, like a big brawny line backer
BrawnGP has set the paddock on fire, everyone is worried, I only hope their speed is for real. If Mclaren don't improve, I don't see how they have a chance this year with the limits on in season testing. They need to find 2 seconds in 1 week! See what happens when you lose Newey! All I can say is, if Alonso/Massa say BrawnGP is fast, I believe it. Even if BrawnGP were running light fuel and no ballast, if/when they finally add fuel and ballast they will still be fast, it's not like that's going to add 3 seconds to their time. They were 1 second clear of 2nd place, seriously, that's no joke. And another thing, the name BrawnGP doesn't quite roll of the tongue does it? Should have been Ross Racing or something like that, BrawnGP sounds slow, like a big brawny line backer
annunaki Moderator Dec 9, 2003 4,540 0 113 Wausau, WI Mar 13, 2009 #440 ragged said: And another thing, the name BrawnGP doesn't quite roll of the tongue does it? Should have been Ross Racing or something like that, BrawnGP sounds slow, like a big brawny line backer Click to expand... That is why I like it! I have been a fan of Brawn for a long time. I like how he runs a team and what he demands from the drivers. I liked his approach to last season too. He saw the car was hopeless and only put forth the most effort where they could pick up points (wet races). They raced for data to get ready for '09. It is paying off in spades if testing pace is any indication. I loved the French GP in '04. "Ah Michael, we need 21 seconds gap in the next 14(?) laps to make this 4 stop work, thank you." Methinks Ferrari & Renault are a bit worried about the old/new kid on the block.
ragged said: And another thing, the name BrawnGP doesn't quite roll of the tongue does it? Should have been Ross Racing or something like that, BrawnGP sounds slow, like a big brawny line backer Click to expand... That is why I like it! I have been a fan of Brawn for a long time. I like how he runs a team and what he demands from the drivers. I liked his approach to last season too. He saw the car was hopeless and only put forth the most effort where they could pick up points (wet races). They raced for data to get ready for '09. It is paying off in spades if testing pace is any indication. I loved the French GP in '04. "Ah Michael, we need 21 seconds gap in the next 14(?) laps to make this 4 stop work, thank you." Methinks Ferrari & Renault are a bit worried about the old/new kid on the block.
