Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

[trochetier]

I read somewhere that the Taliban supposedly had a saying “The Americans have the clocks, but we have the time.” I have no idea if any members of the Taliban ever actually said this but it seems to fit.

I have read a similar statement from a Taliban commander to a US commander "You have fancy clocks that read milliseconds but we have the time".
Afghans have gotten the better of super powers the British Empire in its heydays, Soviets and now US/NATO. All because they have/had the "time".

Afghanistan has a long interesting history - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan

 

[trochetier]

I read somewhere that the Taliban supposedly had a saying “The Americans have the clocks, but we have the time.” I have no idea if any members of the Taliban ever actually said this but it seems to fit.

More like we bugged out according to history also as interpreted by Ken Burns in his documentary The Vietnam War.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I read somewhere that the Taliban supposedly had a saying “The Americans have the clocks, but we have the time.” I have no idea if any members of the Taliban ever actually said this but it seems to fit.

They certainly had the time to outwait the Russians.

 

[Mr._Clark]

More like we bugged out according to history also as interpreted by Ken Burns in his documentary The Vietnam War.

At the risk of getting too far off topic for this thread, the NYT ran an article earlier this year about mistakes the U.S. made in Afghanistan. It was a somewhat painful (for lack of a better word) read for me, but there's no point in giving in to cognitive dissonance and pretending these things didn't happen.

>>>The man’s head is bowed, and he is missing an arm and an eye. Something has happened to him, something awful. . . .

“This man was my sworn enemy,” said the Taliban commander, Mullah Osman Jawhari.

“But do you know who did this to him?” the commander asks, a garish smile spreading over his face.

“It was his friends, the Americans.” . . .

The United States dropped more than 1,000 bombs in a place it never needed to be. Instead of winning hearts and minds, the Americans unwittingly sowed the seeds of their own demise here in the Waygal Valley — just as it did in much of Afghanistan — then stayed for years to reap the harvest.<<<

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/world/europe/afghanistan-allies-enemies-nuristan-taliban.html

 

[trochetier]

At the risk of getting too far off topic for this thread, the NYT ran an article earlier this year about mistakes the U.S. made in Afghanistan. It was a somewhat painful (for lack of a better word) read for me, but there's no point in giving in to cognitive dissonance and pretending these things didn't happen.

>>>The man’s head is bowed, and he is missing an arm and an eye. Something has happened to him, something awful. . . .

“This man was my sworn enemy,” said the Taliban commander, Mullah Osman Jawhari.

“But do you know who did this to him?” the commander asks, a garish smile spreading over his face.

“It was his friends, the Americans.” . . .

The United States dropped more than 1,000 bombs in a place it never needed to be. Instead of winning hearts and minds, the Americans unwittingly sowed the seeds of their own demise here in the Waygal Valley — just as it did in much of Afghanistan — then stayed for years to reap the harvest.<<<

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/12/world/europe/afghanistan-allies-enemies-nuristan-taliban.html

If bombs (also wars) will make friends the world will be the happiest place. We would be loved all over. Since the Korean War we have had some sort or the other military action or involvement every decade all in the name of national security and left all those places unstable (exception Vietnam).

 

[Trell]

Below is a YouTube clip about the Swedish artillery system Archer used in an Ukrainian brigade. It's very mobile, precise and easy to use and maintain (as it was intended to be operated by conscripts).

Archer can also use US-Swedish Raytheon-Bofors Excalibur precision guided artillery shell but that is not shown in the clip below. They where used quite a lot early in the war with some spectacular videos published but due to Russian counter measures not as useful any more. I assume counter-counter measures are in development.

At the end of the clip there's an ask for an excavator used to hide the Archer, and there may be more than one such plea, but a few days ago one such excavator was financed by donations in Sweden.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Can't say that I blame them.
Ukraine on track to withdraw f...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ukraine-on-track-to-withdraw-from-ottawa-convention-banning-anti-personnel-mines-1.7573868

 

[Trell]

Can't say that I blame them.
Ukraine on track to withdraw f...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ukraine-on-track-to-withdraw-from-ottawa-convention-banning-anti-personnel-mines-1.7573868

I saw that (elsewhere) today and notice that is the countries with border (or very close) to Russia that are withdrawing from the convention. They are looking at how Russia is conducting their brutal war of aggression against Ukraine.

Also, Finland has voted to exit, and I wonder when Sweden will do the same. Finland has NATO's longest border with Russia.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/finnish-parliament-votes-exit-landmines-treaty-due-russia-threat-2025-06-19/

 

[Trell]

The new German Chancellor backs Ukrainian NATO membership, even after becoming Chancellor. So not just "election campaign talks".

>>>President Volodymyr Zelensky has announced a shift in Germany’s stance on Ukraine’s NATO aspirations, stating that Berlin now supports Ukraine’s future membership in the Alliance.

The head of Ukrainian state said this ahead of a meeting with German Foreign Minister Johann Wadephul in Kyiv, an Ukrinform correspondent reports.

“This is a very important moment—not only regarding our future in the European Union. I want to personally thank you for a signal we haven’t heard from Germany in a very long time, perhaps ever. During the NATO summit, at the meeting between NATO and Ukrainian foreign ministers, Germany stated that it believes Ukraine should be in the Alliance. This is in the interest of Europe’s collective security,” Zelensky said.<<<

Germany supports Ukraine’s NATO membership – Zelensky

President Volodymyr Zelensky has announced a shift in Germany’s stance on Ukraine’s NATO aspirations, stating that Berlin now supports Ukraine’s future membership in the Alliance. — Ukrinform.

www.ukrinform.net

Germany's chancellor-in-waiting backs Ukraine’s NATO, EU path — but only after war ends

"Ukraine is a very large European country, but it is a European country that is at war," Germany’s incoming chancellor, Friedrich Merz, said in an interview with Handelsblatt.

kyivindependent.com

 

[David_Alexander]

What the Trumpian shills will never say is that Ukraine is a bulwark against a common enemy.
You finance Ukraine in a fight with a common enemy because it's a hell of a lot cheaper than going to war yourself in terms of political expenditure.

The experience of American isolationism, or neglect to act when necessary meant they were late to the threat of the rise of the Nazis, failed to anticipate the axis alliance of Japan, and didn't act to stop the Soviet annexation of swathes of Europe.

Forget all about the posturing about making NATO pay its way and humiliating Zelenskyy. If Ukraine suffers because of Trump's indifference, America will pay far more down the line.

 

[mtrycrafts]

What the Trumpian shills will never say is that Ukraine is a bulwark against a common enemy.
...

Don't think Donals thinks Russia is an enemy is. One only needs to review him embracing Putin.

 

[GO-NAD!]

Coalition's Ukraine security g...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ukraine-security-guarantees-9.7035465

After almost four years of major conflict, Ukraine has been given a series of concrete security guarantees — backed by more than 30 countries including Canada — that it can take into possible peace talks with Russia.

The agreement, backed by the "coalition of the willing," provides specific troop commitments from Western nations to deter Russia from restarting the war, should a ceasefire take effect.

I think this will become a Catch-22 situation. While the only way to gain any degree of assurance that Russia will respect a ceasefire is to have western troops on the ground, acting as a tripwire force. Putin is very unlikely to agree to such an arrangement to enforce a ceasefire. Not that I believe he has any serious interest in a ceasefire that doesn't include - in practical terms - what would amount to be a Ukrainian surrender.

 

[highfigh]

Coalition's Ukraine security g...

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/ukraine-security-guarantees-9.7035465

I think this will become a Catch-22 situation. While the only way to gain any degree of assurance that Russia will respect a ceasefire is to have western troops on the ground, acting as a tripwire force. Putin is very unlikely to agree to such an arrangement to enforce a ceasefire. Not that I believe he has any serious interest in a ceasefire that doesn't include - in practical terms - what would amount to be a Ukrainian surrender.

What is your view of the unrest and decreasing support of Putin in Russia? If Iran changes regimes, he loses a major ally.

 

[GO-NAD!]

What is your view of the unrest and decreasing support of Putin in Russia? If Iran changes regimes, he loses a major ally.

I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate that decreasing support amongst Russians for Putin presents a threat to his hold on power. Have you? I think it would have to get much worse for them before they would consider rising up against the regime. If history is any teacher, it tells us that the ability/willingness of Russians to suffer due to the actions of their leaders is quite impressive. Having no real experience of freedom and democracy, most of them don't know what they are missing.

As for Iran, nothing tells me yet that these protests will generate an outcome any different from previous ones. Stay tuned, I guess...

 

[highfigh]

I haven't seen or heard anything to indicate that decreasing support amongst Russians for Putin presents a threat to his hold on power. Have you? I think it would have to get much worse for them before they would consider rising up against the regime. If history is any teacher, it tells us that the ability/willingness of Russians to suffer due to the actions of their leaders is quite impressive. Having no real experience of freedom and democracy, most of them don't know what they are missing.

As for Iran, nothing tells me yet that these protests will generate an outcome any different from previous ones. Stay tuned, I guess...

I have been seeing reports that Putin is losing support and the plans for buying/moving fuel aren't going to remain. Also, if Iran ends Islamic rule and whomever ends up at the top isn't a fan of Russia, Russia loses their drone supplier.

Russians have been lied to for so long that truth is fluid. Some keep their heads down, some are open-eyed and involved, but it's hard to change minds that have been closed for so many decades. If they can live without too much strife, why look for change? Impressive? I see it as 'their spirit has been broken'.

WRT Iran, how far back are you thinking? It has only been 47 years since the Shah was de-throned by an Ayatollah. Water shortage has been a huge problem, inflation and incarcerating/executing political enemies has occurred for a long time. I think the average Iranian is tired of oppression.

 

[GO-NAD!]

I have been seeing reports that Putin is losing support and the plans for buying/moving fuel aren't going to remain. Also, if Iran ends Islamic rule and whomever ends up at the top isn't a fan of Russia, Russia loses their drone supplier.

Russians have been lied to for so long that truth is fluid. Some keep their heads down, some are open-eyed and involved, but it's hard to change minds that have been closed for so many decades. If they can live without too much strife, why look for change? Impressive? I see it as 'their spirit has been broken'.

WRT Iran, how far back are you thinking? It has only been 47 years since the Shah was de-throned by an Ayatollah. Water shortage has been a huge problem, inflation and incarcerating/executing political enemies has occurred for a long time. I think the average Iranian is tired of oppression.

If the Iranian regime should collapse, it doesn't automatically mean the country will become a friend of the west.

"Impressive? I see it as 'their spirit has been broken'."

I can see this as two sides of the same coin.