Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
The private US based satellite company Maxar Technologies has been, reportedly, prohibited from sharing satellite images with Ukraine.

Edit: confirmed: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2025/03/07/maxar-ukraine-sateliite-imagery/

>>>U.S. aerospace company Maxar Technologies has restricted Ukraine's access to its satellite imagery, the Ukrainian media outlet Militarnyi reported on March 7, citing unnamed users of the service.

Kyiv has relied on high-resolution satellite images for defense and strategic planning, tracking Russian troop movements, assessing battlefield conditions, and monitoring Russian infrastructure damage.

The alleged move follows the U.S. decision to halt intelligence sharing with Ukraine, a shift confirmed by CIA Director John Ratcliffe on March 5.

According to Militarnyi, the restriction was imposed under an order from U.S. President Donald Trump's administration, with the State Department allegedly prohibiting U.S. companies from providing satellite data to Ukraine.

The Kyiv Independent was unable to verify the claims and has contacted Maxar Technologies for confirmation but has yet to receive a response.

Ukraine's cyber community Cyberboroshno also reported the restriction, claiming that free access to satellite reconnaissance had been cut off.

"According to our information, at least private companies can buy already ordered (satellite) images through the provider," Cyberboroshno wrote on Telegram.

Washington has also frozen military aid to Kyiv as part of a broader effort to pressure President Volodymyr Zelensky into peace talks with Russia.

Ukraine's Defense Minister Rustem Umerov said on March 6 that Kyiv is working on alternatives to counter the loss of U.S. intelligence, including potential cooperation with European partners.<<<

 
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nicoleise

Junior Audioholic
I agree with you. You should read his post in the context that he is against supporting Ukraine.
Thanks for the clarification. If that's true, it makes very little sense still, though.

Ukraine supported the US with over 6 000 soldiers in the Iraq war, without any obligation to do so.

Now, the US is "returning the favor" by actively sabotaging the Ukrainians defense of their own country. Talk about growing up or growing a spine.

One thing is cutting military aid, at least there's a cost to use as reason. But Starlink and both the halt on sharing intelligence as well as the alledged interfering with other countries sharing intelligence with Ukraine in my perspective is hard to rationally justify as anything other than favours to Putin/Russia (at the expense of one's allies).
 
T

trochetier

Full Audioholic
This is grossly oversimplified and frankly insulting.

The US has called upon its allies to help with it's military engagements the world over countless times. Every time, Denmark (for one) responded.

Our entire defence sector was converted for this purpose; special forces, light reactionary forces, multi purpose frigates, etc.

We didn't buy hundreds of tanks, because the needs the US (exclusively) asked of us were not tanks.

Because the need wasn't to defend Denmarks physical borders, the need was to go to Afghanistan and Iraq to help the US with your battles there. And remember just how short time ago we were all still in Iraq? In the context of changing an entire army, it was seconds ago.

Obviously all this took place expecting the NATO treaties (and others) to be honoured, to allow for this vulnerability to exist in the first place. And with an understanding that a small country like Denmark can't do both.

We could obviously have responded differently. We could have said "Nope, you have fun in the big sand box, we'd love to join, but we need to buy tanks and bunkers. But we do sympathise with your losses, too bad about 9/11. We wish you the best of luck."


If we had done that, your post wouldn't be remotely relevant because we would have prioritised our own defense.

But from a US point of view, would that have been any better, knowing that Denmark per capita suffered the same losses as the US did in those conflicts?


A substantial portion of our defense spendings were spent directly supporting the US in armed conflicts. Just as you now see us spending by far the most on supporting Ukraine directly (over 2% of our GDP).

Again, we could buy tanks and park them in garages, but they would only make a difference if we were invaded. Instead, we put our money where the need is.

Hopefully this illustrates why military alliances shouldn't be reduced to simple statements?


Don't get me wrong, the EU needs to, and is, stepping it up. And all things point to the defence strategically being anchored in the EU rather than NATO in the future. How this is a win for the US, I cannot see though?

Especially not when Trump managed to alienate essentially everyone, and thus essentially write the US out of the equation in what is likely the largest defense purchase of a high number of US allies all at the same time.

This could - in real terms, not just in Trumps head - have been a trillion dollar deal for the US easily. Many European countries bought US equipment (Denmark for example bought F16 and is replacing them with F35 currently being commissioned and deployed). But no European government can realistically suggest touching equipment that the US essentially controls with a ten foot pole now, if some alternative exists.

But of course, this - like many other things - is more of a biproduct. I simply felt your simplified post lacks taking a bunch of things into account.
I stand by my comment. It is not a matter of benefiting US but a matter of Europe being more responsible for its own defense. We alone spend $850 billion on defense, more than the next 7 countries combined. We still maintain a huge footprint in Europe - https://www.cfr.org/article/where-are-us-forces-deployed-europe

Bush invoking Article 5 required NATO to to send troops to Afghanistan that's true. But that also caused consternation in Europe when the Afghan war went on and on. https://www.businessinsider.com/nato-still-living-with-consequences-article-5-invocation-after-911-2021-9?op=1

Brussels EU leaders meeting March 6, committing to 850 million Euros to build up Europe's own capacity independent of US confirms that finally Europe is starting to stand on its own two feet. https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/live-special-european-council-summit-march-6-2025/

Now that Russia's military has proven to be tissue paper bear - I personally see no reason why Europe should still depend upon US for its defense. From US perspective with China as the rising economic and military power in the east I see more of a reason for US to reform SEATO refocus on Asia and retrograde from NATO.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Warlord
I stand by my comment. It is not a matter of benefiting US but a matter of Europe being more responsible for its own defense. We alone spend $850 billion on defense, more than the next 7 countries combined. We still maintain a huge footprint in Europe - https://www.cfr.org/article/where-are-us-forces-deployed-europe

Bush invoking Article 5 required NATO to to send troops to Afghanistan that's true. But that also caused consternation in Europe when the Afghan war went on and on. https://www.businessinsider.com/nato-still-living-with-consequences-article-5-invocation-after-911-2021-9?op=1

Brussels EU leaders meeting March 6, committing to 850 million Euros to build up Europe's own capacity independent of US confirms that finally Europe is starting to stand on its own two feet. https://europeanconservative.com/articles/news/live-special-european-council-summit-march-6-2025/

Now that Russia's military has proven to be tissue paper bear - I personally see no reason why Europe should still depend upon US for its defense. From US perspective with China as the rising economic and military power in the east I see more of a reason for US to reform SEATO refocus on Asia and retrograde from NATO.
So, you're fine with the US invoking article 5 and the rest of NATO responding, but Europe should look after themselves? It's not that Europe "depends" on the US for their defence. It's that NATO is an alliance and for it to have any power of detterence, all members need to stand by their commitments.

NOBODY badgered the US to spend $850 billion on defence. The US government made that choice. If you want to spend less, spend less. But, the US is still a member and should stand by her commitments, if called upon.
 
T

trochetier

Full Audioholic
So, you're fine with the US invoking article 5 and the rest of NATO responding, but Europe should look after themselves? It's not that Europe "depends" on the US for their defence. It's that NATO is an alliance and for it to have any power of detterence, all members need to stand by their commitments.

NOBODY badgered the US to spend $850 billion on defence. The US government made that choice. If you want to spend less, spend less. But, the US is still a member and should stand by her commitments, if called upon.
As long as US is a member of NATO Article 5 commitment should be honored. I am saying that US should no longer be the big dog, the leader of NATO. US as the leader in NATO made sense after WW2 when Europe was broken and USSR was the other big dog. Now Europe is wealthy and put together through EU, EC etc. Europe should now take on the bigger burden of NATO for its own defenses and US should be just another NATO member but not the lead.

IMO the reason US spends $850B in defense is because it still needs to maintain a very large foot print in Europe. Europe taking on more NATO responsibility will allow US to reposition more towards counteracting China, restarting SEATO without having to spend a lot more on defense and running up even higher on top of already huge national debt.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Warlord
As long as US is a member of NATO Article 5 commitment should be honored. I am saying that US should no longer be the big dog, the leader of NATO. US as the leader in NATO made sense after WW2 when Europe was broken and USSR was the other big dog. Now Europe is wealthy and put together through EU, EC etc. Europe should now take on the bigger burden of NATO for its own defenses and US should be just another NATO member but not the lead.

IMO the reason US spends $850B in defense is because it still needs to maintain a very large foot print in Europe. Europe taking on more NATO responsibility will allow US to reposition more towards counteracting China, restarting SEATO without having to spend a lot more on defense and running up even higher on top of already huge national debt.
I agree that the US doesn't necessarily need to "lead" NATO. I'd be happy just to know that she will honour her commitment to mutual defence.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Spartan
As long as US is a member of NATO Article 5 commitment should be honored. I am saying that US should no longer be the big dog, the leader of NATO. US as the leader in NATO made sense after WW2 when Europe was broken and USSR was the other big dog. Now Europe is wealthy and put together through EU, EC etc. Europe should now take on the bigger burden of NATO for its own defenses and US should be just another NATO member but not the lead.

IMO the reason US spends $850B in defense is because it still needs to maintain a very large foot print in Europe. Europe taking on more NATO responsibility will allow US to reposition more towards counteracting China, restarting SEATO without having to spend a lot more on defense and running up even higher on top of already huge national debt.
This is not handouts to Europe but a mutual beneficial security arrangement since WWII! It's not just military but economic and political as well.

You ought to watch the following YouTube clip by a professor who studies war and game theory that should dispel a number of your misconceptions.

 
T

trochetier

Full Audioholic
This is not handouts to Europe but a mutual beneficial security arrangement since WWII! It's not just military but economic and political as well.

You ought to watch the following YouTube clip by a professor who studies war and game theory that should dispel a number of your misconceptions.

What the professor is saying is known. What I am saying is that US should no longer be the leader now be just another NATO member just like Denmark or France or Germany. US leadership made sense after WW2 but now that European economy is just as big as US, Europe should take on more of the burden. Clinton, Obama said this to NATO but then it fell on deaf ears. Now that Trump has said it bluntly with his usual bluster it has got Europe's attention, so much so that EU on 3/6 in Brussels agreed to spend $850B (equal to US defense budget for FY 2024) on their defense.

IMO US should honor Article 5.
 
D

Dude#1279435

Audioholic Warlord
What the professor is saying is known. What I am saying is that US should no longer be the leader now be just another NATO member just like Denmark or France or Germany. US leadership made sense after WW2 but now that European economy is just as big as US, Europe should take on more of the burden. Clinton, Obama said this to NATO but then it fell on deaf ears. Now that Trump has said it bluntly with his usual bluster it has got Europe's attention, so much so that EU on 3/6 in Brussels agreed to spend $850B (equal to US defense budget for FY 2024) on their defense.

IMO US should honor Article 5.
It's a roundabout way of achieving your aims given the deplorable tv meeting. Trump has a talent for turning success into failures given his tone.
 

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