Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

[Trell]

 

[Mr._Clark]

It looks like U.S.-supplied ATACMS missiles were just used for the first time in Ukraine. This was reportedly the largest ever Russian loss of aircraft and helicopters in a single day (I don't know if that has been confirmed).

ATACMS Arrive Violently In Ukraine, Russian Airbase Hammered

The much-anticipated delivery of the US-made MGM-140 Army Tactical Missile System (ATACMS) has been confirmed as a Russian airbase in occupied Berdyansk, Zaporizhzhia sustained significant damage to multiple aircraft and air defense equipment following a strike on the night of Oct. 16, 2023.

funker530.com

Some of the initial reports suggested the attack on the airfield might have been carried out with Stormshadow missiles, but it now seems pretty clear that ATACMS missiles were used in the attack.

Note: the video at the link above is not exceptionally violent (it basically just shows flames at a distance), but some of the other videos on the funker530.com website are extremely raw and graphic, so use your discretion when clicking on the other links.

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

Note: the video at the link above is not exceptionally violent (it basically just shows flames at a distance), but some of the other videos on the funker530.com website are extremely raw and graphic, so use your discretion when clicking on the other links.

Isn't it like a "Burning Man" event from a distance?

 

[Trell]

Some real good news: The Turkish President Erdoğan has signed the Protocol on Sweden's NATO Accession.

Assuming that the Turkish National Assembly ratifies it, there is only Hungary left to sign it.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1716457737259827385

Edit: Some more information and various comments.

Turkey's Erdogan submits Sweden's NATO bid to parliament for ratification, presidency says

The move is welcomed by Stockholm as it clears the way for it to join the Western defense alliance. Hungary's parliament will also have to ratify Sweden's application before it can become a member.

www.reuters.com

 

[Trell]

Slovakia elected a pro-Putin prime minister and the first thing he did was to end military aid to Ukraine, and that in sharp contrast to the previous government.

>>>Slovakia has until now been a staunch supporter of Kyiv since Russia invaded in February last year, donating arms and opening its borders for refugees fleeing the war.

Slovakia's new Prime Minister, Robert Fico, announced on Thursday that he would stop delivering arms to Ukraine, limiting support for his neighbour to "humanitarian and civilian aid".
"We see aid to Ukraine solely as humanitarian and civilian aid, and we will no longer supply Ukraine with arms", Fico declared, the day after his appointment as head of a coalition government that includes a pro-Russian far-right party.

"The war in Ukraine is not ours, we have nothing to do with it", he added. In his view, "an immediate halt to military operations is the best solution for Ukraine. The EU should move from being an arms supplier to a peacemaker".

The Kremlin immediately reacted to this announcement, playing down its importance.
"Slovakia's share of arms deliveries [to Kyiv] was indeed not that great, and that is why this will hardly affect the whole process", Kremlin spokesman Dmitri Peskov told the press, before once again accusing the United States of fuelling the conflict by helping Ukraine.

During his statements to MEPs, Fico also announced that he would not support new sanctions against Russia "until we have analysed their impact on Slovakia".
"If such sanctions are going to harm us, as is the case with most sanctions, I see no reason to support them", he insisted.<<<

Slovakia announces the end of military aid to Ukraine

Slovakia has until now been a staunch supporter of Kyiv since Russia invaded in February last year, donating arms and opening its borders for refugees fleeing the war.

www.euronews.com

 

[Dude#1279435]

I don't really get why aid to Ukraine is ending? Don't want to be involved in larger escalation? Seems if the US can fund Israel we can do some for Ukraine too.

 

[highfigh]

I don't really get why aid to Ukraine is ending? Don't want to be involved in larger escalation? Seems if the US can fund Israel we can do some for Ukraine too.

"some"? Define 'some'- we have already provided this-

How Much U.S. Aid Is Going to Ukraine?

Nine charts illustrate the extraordinary level of support the United States has provided Ukraine in its war against Russian invaders.

www.cfr.org

 

[David_Alexander]

"some"? Define 'some'- we have already provided this-

How Much U.S. Aid Is Going to Ukraine?

Nine charts illustrate the extraordinary level of support the United States has provided Ukraine in its war against Russian invaders.

www.cfr.org

Need more, or at least a timely tranche of what has previously been committed. The free world needs the US. This is from another forum. From when you lent aid for the greater good. The defence by Britain against you know who.

"It was a loan, Lend Lease, which we did not finish paying off until 2006
The final payment of $83.3 million (£42.5 million), due on December 31, 2006 (repayment having been deferred in the allowed five years and during a sixth year not allowed), was made by Britain on December 29, 2006 (the last working day of the year)."

Two formally non NATO countries have signed up to our mutual alliance, with good reason. American isolation rarely plays out well, especially on the European stage. We need you.

 

[haraldo]

The fight for Ukraine is a fight to protect the free world
The only thing putler understands is brute force and the only way to stop this is with brute force

I do have Ukrainiane family, I know what is going on and what happens there scares the s$##t out of me

The ruzzian way: A neighbour complaints that you are not pro-ruzzian, what happens then is that you may be taken with force to the forest, no trail, no questioning, there is you and a bunch of special police force unit guys with machine guns ..... they dig a hole in the ground and shoot .... I know this from first hand experience. This is the situation we may possibly get where ruzzia wins through
(I have very close family who have been there in the forest). So should we do our best to stop this?

This is a very scary situation ..... if US ends support to Ukraine we may very well see that ruzzia gets what they want here and takes over a significant part of Ukraine permanently. This does not stop there, but what is next step.

What scares me very much also is that some quite recent polls posted through the Telegram channel "Ukraine NOW" show more than 65% support for ruzzia extending to EU and NATO with the force of nuclear weapons. I am confident that the fight of Ukraine is not about Ukraine but to protect the whole civilized western world. If this madness is allowed to keep going we do not know what´s up next

 

[highfigh]

Need more, or at least a timely tranche of what has previously been committed. The free world needs the US. This is from another forum. From when you lent aid for the greater good. The defence by Britain against you know who.

"It was a loan, Lend Lease, which we did not finish paying off until 2006
The final payment of $83.3 million (£42.5 million), due on December 31, 2006 (repayment having been deferred in the allowed five years and during a sixth year not allowed), was made by Britain on December 29, 2006 (the last working day of the year)."

Two formally non NATO countries have signed up to our mutual alliance, with good reason. American isolation rarely plays out well, especially on the European stage. We need you.

I never said we should stop but it would be great if people in other countries would think about the massive problems we have here for a change but more than that, Congress needs to do that damned soon. They have kicked so many cans down the road that it's unlikely that we'll ever see a drop in inflation, especially since so many people want, want, want and don't care how much everything costs because they'll just go deeper into debt to have more. People used to spend within their means but that ship sailed with easy credit.

The problem I have with most of the rest of the world- bad leaders don't take care of their people and now, the new President of Venezuela has decided that his country doesn't have enough oil, so he's going after Guyana. Sure, let's have another effing war. Also, let's watch Putin try to take over the Arctic.

 

[haraldo]

ruzziaa is preparing for a war against NATO and will attack the Baltic states within 5-10 years, according to Christian Mölling, deputy director of the leading German Center for Foreign Policy Analysis.

source: @liveukraine_media

Live: Ukraine

Russia is preparing for a war against NATO and will attack the Baltic states within 5-10 years, according to Christian Mölling, deputy director of the leading German Center for Foreign Policy Analysis. @liveukraine_media

t.me

 

[Mr._Clark]

Unfortunately, things do not look good for Ukraine right now.

>>>“America is washing its hands of Ukraine,” a Ukrainian government counsellor grumbled on the sidelines of the Paris summit. “Their military expenditure priorities are aimed against China, while our country, all of Europe, is being stormed by Russian gangsters and social media propaganda. We are screwed, absolutely fucked.”<<<

Ukraine Is on the Cusp of Losing This War: ‘We’re Screwed’

President Zelensky is at the White House on Tuesday but there’s not much more he can say. Ukraine needs some kind of secret weapon at this point.

www.thedailybeast.com

There are of course many ways to look at the cost, but the total aid to Ukraine of $66B (August 2023) is tiny compared to the 2023 DOD budget of $1.77 Trillion.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/04/ukraine-war-us-spending/

Total U.S. aid to Ukraine ($66.2B) is obviously significant, but as a percentage of GDP, the U.S. aid to Ukraine is less than quite a few other countries.

My concern is that a failure to stop Russia now is likely to lead to much greater problems and expenses in a few years.

 

[shadyJ]

While I do hope that the US gives Ukraine all the resources it needs to thoroughly annihilate every Russian soldier within its borders, I do think talk of "Ukraine is just the Beginning of Russia's Ambitions" talk is wildly overblown. Russia's military has been exposed as blundering clowns. They are trying to make up in quantity what they lack in quality. They are very unlikely to take over any more major pieces of land from Ukraine and would be lucky to hold on to what they have. Their best-case scenario at this point would be for free-world nations to lose interest in supporting Ukraine so that Russia could secure a peace plan that allows them to keep what they have stolen. However, that would be a major injustice, of course, and Ukraine needs to be given everything they need to expel Russia back to its lair. After which Russia needs to be totally isolated from the rest of Europe so they can go back to being the medieval dumpster that they seem to be speedrunning for. All assets belonging to Russia in foreign nations should be seized and given to Ukraine. All trade with Russia should have high "Ukraine Reparations" taxes until Ukraine is fully rebuilt from Russia's aggression.

 

[Mikado463]

Unfortunately, things do not look good for Ukraine right now.

>>>“America is washing its hands of Ukraine,” a Ukrainian government counsellor grumbled on the sidelines of the Paris summit. “Their military expenditure priorities are aimed against China, while our country, all of Europe, is being stormed by Russian gangsters and social media propaganda. We are screwed, absolutely fucked.”<<<

Ukraine Is on the Cusp of Losing This War: ‘We’re Screwed’

President Zelensky is at the White House on Tuesday but there’s not much more he can say. Ukraine needs some kind of secret weapon at this point.

www.thedailybeast.com

There are of course many ways to look at the cost, but the total aid to Ukraine of $66B (August 2023) is tiny compared to the 2023 DOD budget of $1.77 Trillion.

View attachment 64656


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/04/ukraine-war-us-spending/

Total U.S. aid to Ukraine ($66.2B) is obviously significant, but as a percentage of GDP, the U.S. aid to Ukraine is less than quite a few other countries.


View attachment 64657

My concern is that a failure to stop Russia now is likely to lead to much greater problems and expenses in a few years.

it's now Dec 12th, I've seen #'s of 75-100 billion so far. The point / question is, when / where does it stop ?

 

[David_Alexander]

it's now Dec 12th, I've seen #'s of 75-100 billion so far. The point / question is, when / where does it stop ?

As above, you do it on the basis of Loan Lease, so it's an investment on return.

The US has a couple of protagonists with the reach and intent to do it harm. The Ukrainians on their own (OK, with Western and US support ) have knocked Russia backwards by a decade in military capability. Russia have taken over 300,000 casualties since the start of the war.

They've literally done a job on the Russians. And want to join NATO and the EU. It's not as if we are funding the mujahideen here.

 

[Mikado463]

As above, you do it on the basis of Loan Lease, so it's an investment on return.

I love investments, I've got plenty of them and I scrutinize them. I do the same with Ukraine, their Gov't is probably more corrupt than ours ..........

 

[mtrycrafts]

...

Total U.S. aid to Ukraine ($66.2B) is obviously significant, but as a percentage of GDP, the U.S. aid to Ukraine is less than quite a few other countries.


View attachment 64657

My concern is that a failure to stop Russia now is likely to lead to much greater problems and expenses in a few years.

Oh, boy, you saved me a bunch of time trying to find this chart.
How telling, isn't it?
Some are so very short sighted about the world, until it is too late.

Didn't this bunch in the house wanted to do single issue bills?

 

[David_Alexander]

I love investments, I've got plenty of them and I scrutinize them. I do the same with Ukraine, their Gov't is probably more corrupt than ours ..........

Praise the Lord, and pass the ammunition.

 

[haraldo]

This is what has been posted on the Telegram channel Ukraine NOW

ruzzia is preparing for a war against NATO and will attack the Baltic states within 5-10 years,
according to Christian Mölling, deputy director of the leading German Center for Foreign Policy Analysis.

ruzzia is preparing for a war against NATO

ruzzia is preparing for a war against NATO and will attack the Baltic states within 5-10 years, according to Christian Mölling, deputy director of the leadin...

www.youtube.com

source: @liveukraine_media
https://t.me/liveukraine_media/16005

 

[shadyJ]

This is what has been posted on the Telegram channel Ukraine NOW

ruzzia is preparing for a war against NATO and will attack the Baltic states within 5-10 years,
according to Christian Mölling, deputy director of the leading German Center for Foreign Policy Analysis.

ruzzia is preparing for a war against NATO

ruzzia is preparing for a war against NATO and will attack the Baltic states within 5-10 years, according to Christian Mölling, deputy director of the leadin...

www.youtube.com

source: @liveukraine_media
https://t.me/liveukraine_media/16005

Russia couldn't handle an army that still had one foot stuck in Soviet military doctrine; how do they think they can handle fully NATO-standard armies? They would need to have North Korean levels of conscription to have an army that could cope with Poland or the Baltic states, and that would only be to not lose the war outright on the first day. Besides that, their economy isn't exactly growing, so how are they going to support a larger army when they will inevitably have a much worse economy?