Ukraine – Russia … not more of the last thread

highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
No, of course not, but evidence has to be collected to prove Russian war crimes in use of Phosphorus.

In general the Ukrainians are collecting evidence of Russian war crimes.
Good- I hope Putin burns. Maybe they should strap him onto the front of a tank in the war zone and let him see what they're dealing with in real time.
 
M

Mojo Navigator

Audioholic Intern
A long read, but what a tangled web!

Worthwhile article that helps to clarify the complex political machinations in the USA, Ukraine and Russia. Overall, a very coherent article, albeit there are still missing gems that most likely are in the redacted Mueller Report.

Highly recommended
 
mtrycrafts

mtrycrafts

Seriously, I have no life.
Good- I hope Putin burns. Maybe they should strap him onto the front of a tank in the war zone and let him see what they're dealing with in real time.
How about under one of those phosphorous drop zones?
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
Good- I hope Putin burns. Maybe they should strap him onto the front of a tank in the war zone and let him see what they're dealing with in real time.
It's hard to see how Putin will ever be brought to justice for war crimes. Unfortunately, unless a country loses a war, saying that someone has committed war crimes is effectively little more than a fancy way of saying that the person is a complete A hole.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem saying that Putin is a complete A hole. Strapping him to a tank sounds like one of many viable approaches.

>>>Today, the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the International Court of Justice (ICJ) both have roles upholding the rules of war.
The International Court of Justice (ICJ) rules on disputes between states, but cannot prosecute individuals. Ukraine has begun a case against Russia.

If the ICJ ruled against Russia, the UN Security Council (UNSC) would be responsible for enforcing that.
But Russia - one of council's five permanent members - could veto any proposal to sanction it.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) investigates and prosecutes individual war criminals who are not before the courts of individual states. . . .

If there's evidence, the prosecutor will ask ICC judges to issue arrest warrants to bring individuals to trial in The Hague.
However the court doesn't have its own police force so relies on individual states to arrest suspects - and since Russia is not a member of the court it is unlikely to extradite any suspects.<<< (emphasis added)


When I was in law school, International Law lost most of it's appeal after the first day of class when I realized how little effect it has (except possibly as a way to shame a country or leader into taking a different course of action, but of course Putin cannot be shamed because . . . he's a complete A hole).
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Ninja
Let's hope then that one in his gang poison him as he had tried to do with his political opponent.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
It's hard to see how Putin will ever be brought to justice for war crimes. Unfortunately, unless a country loses a war, saying that someone has committed war crimes is effectively little more than a fancy way of saying that the person is a complete A hole.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem saying that Putin is a complete A hole. Strapping him to a tank sounds like one of many viable approaches.

>>>Today, the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the International Court of Justice (ICJ) both have roles upholding the rules of war.
The International Court of Justice (ICJ) rules on disputes between states, but cannot prosecute individuals. Ukraine has begun a case against Russia.

If the ICJ ruled against Russia, the UN Security Council (UNSC) would be responsible for enforcing that.
But Russia - one of council's five permanent members - could veto any proposal to sanction it.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) investigates and prosecutes individual war criminals who are not before the courts of individual states. . . .

If there's evidence, the prosecutor will ask ICC judges to issue arrest warrants to bring individuals to trial in The Hague.
However the court doesn't have its own police force so relies on individual states to arrest suspects - and since Russia is not a member of the court it is unlikely to extradite any suspects.<<< (emphasis added)


When I was in law school, International Law lost most of it's appeal after the first day of class when I realized how little effect it has (except possibly as a way to shame a country or leader into taking a different course of action, but of course Putin cannot be shamed because . . . he's a complete A hole).
International law seems similar to losing a case where a judgement has been imposed. The plaintiff wins, but there's really nothing that compels the defendant to pay.

Maybe The Party could overthrow him and send him out to the World, so he can be dealt with.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
It's hard to see how Putin will ever be brought to justice for war crimes. Unfortunately, unless a country loses a war, saying that someone has committed war crimes is effectively little more than a fancy way of saying that the person is a complete A hole.

Don't get me wrong, I have no problem saying that Putin is a complete A hole. Strapping him to a tank sounds like one of many viable approaches.

>>>Today, the International Criminal Court (ICC) and the International Court of Justice (ICJ) both have roles upholding the rules of war.
The International Court of Justice (ICJ) rules on disputes between states, but cannot prosecute individuals. Ukraine has begun a case against Russia.

If the ICJ ruled against Russia, the UN Security Council (UNSC) would be responsible for enforcing that.
But Russia - one of council's five permanent members - could veto any proposal to sanction it.

The International Criminal Court (ICC) investigates and prosecutes individual war criminals who are not before the courts of individual states. . . .

If there's evidence, the prosecutor will ask ICC judges to issue arrest warrants to bring individuals to trial in The Hague.
However the court doesn't have its own police force so relies on individual states to arrest suspects - and since Russia is not a member of the court it is unlikely to extradite any suspects.<<< (emphasis added)


When I was in law school, International Law lost most of it's appeal after the first day of class when I realized how little effect it has (except possibly as a way to shame a country or leader into taking a different course of action, but of course Putin cannot be shamed because . . . he's a complete A hole).
He's more likely to fall from a window in Moscow than be tried before the ICC.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
International law seems similar to losing a case where a judgement has been imposed. The plaintiff wins, but there's really nothing that compels the defendant to pay.
That's probably a good analogy. Each country is sovereign so they can give the international courts the middle finger if they want.
 
M

Mr._Clark

Audioholic Field Marshall
He's more likely to fall from a window in Moscow than be tried before the ICC.
My thoughts exactly.

The ICC will not try Putin in absentia, and I can't imagine a scenario in which Putin would be forced to appear. Even if he were to be tried and convicted in absentia, there is no real way to enforce the punishment.

>>>Regardless of the crimes of Russian President Vladimir Putin as part of his country’s invasion of Ukraine, there is little reason to believe he will ever stand trial at the International Criminal Court (ICC).

The Rome Statute, from which the ICC draws its authority, sets out two provisions that preclude trials being held in absentia (in the absence of the accused) — meaning Putin would have to be physically present in the courtroom for one to take place. . . .

From a practical perspective, it is difficult to justify a long and expensive international criminal trial when the accused is not available to be punished should they be found guilty. It would represent nothing more than a symbolic victory and do little to address the suffering experienced by Putin’s victims. <<<



In theory, if a new government were to take over in Russia it could send Putin to the ICC. However, I strongly suspect any such new government would implement a more direct approach (e.g. a fall from a very tall building) as you suggested in your post. A dead man cannot bite (as Julius Caesar could confirm if he hadn't been assassinated).

 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
That's probably a good analogy. Each country is sovereign so they can give the international courts the middle finger if they want.
Let's have a one-World Government- that will surely solve these problems! :rolleyes:
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
My thoughts exactly.

The ICC will not try Putin in absentia, and I can't imagine a scenario in which Putin would be forced to appear. Even if he were to be tried and convicted in absentia, there is no real way to enforce the punishment.

>>>Regardless of the crimes of Russian President Vladimir Putin as part of his country’s invasion of Ukraine, there is little reason to believe he will ever stand trial at the International Criminal Court (ICC).

The Rome Statute, from which the ICC draws its authority, sets out two provisions that preclude trials being held in absentia (in the absence of the accused) — meaning Putin would have to be physically present in the courtroom for one to take place. . . .

From a practical perspective, it is difficult to justify a long and expensive international criminal trial when the accused is not available to be punished should they be found guilty. It would represent nothing more than a symbolic victory and do little to address the suffering experienced by Putin’s victims. <<<



In theory, if a new government were to take over in Russia it could send Putin to the ICC. However, I strongly suspect any such new government would implement a more direct approach (e.g. a fall from a very tall building) as you suggested in your post. A dead man cannot bite (as Julius Caesar could confirm if he hadn't been assassinated).

Indeed.

If the ICC were to even charge him, I suspect they would round up all the westerners they could find and charge them with imaginary crimes as insurance against any government trying to arrest him if he left Russia.

I doubt there's anyone close enough to him who is also brave enough to stage a coup - because that's what it would take to have him arrested in Russia. And, if they were to find some intestinal fortitude to stage a coup, they'd prefer the certainty of him in a grave than risk the chance of him wriggling loose.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Ninja
That's probably a good analogy. Each country is sovereign so they can give the international courts the middle finger if they want.
One upside of the Ukrainians documenting the many Russians war crimes is that it easier to maintain the Western support of Ukraine and to counter-act Russian propaganda and disinformation. The documentation of war crimes is a part of the war effort.

In time that information will be available in Russia as well and perhaps dampen the support of the brutal war among the population, though I think that Russians dying in huge numbers on the battle field is more effective.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Audioholic Slumlord
Sure, but I doubt there's anyone with the 'nads ( ;) ) to make it happen.
I'm sure someone feels that there's no reason to live or has found that they have an incurable disease. Maybe, there's someone who's tired of the BS and just wants to cure one problem before they die.

Don't forget about stupid- they may find someone whose sense of self-preservation is missing.
 
GO-NAD!

GO-NAD!

Audioholic Spartan
I'm sure someone feels that there's no reason to live or has found that they have an incurable disease. Maybe, there's someone who's tired of the BS and just wants to cure one problem before they die.

Don't forget about stupid- they may find someone whose sense of self-preservation is missing.
Well, we also have to consider that the removal of Putin from power doesn't fix the mess that is Russia. There's no guarantee that a replacement wouldn't be the same. We can only hope.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Ninja
Well, we also have to consider that the removal of Putin from power doesn't fix the mess that is Russia. There's no guarantee that a replacement wouldn't be the same. We can only hope.
It'll be more of the same and Russia will remain an enemy state for the foreseeable future.
 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Ninja
Russia is retreating from Kherson.

>>>Russia on Wednesday said it would pull troops out of the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson, which it captured in the early days of the war — a new humiliation for Vladimir Putin.

Russia’s commander in Ukraine, General Sergei Surovikin, said on Russian state TV that it was no longer possible to keep supplying the city, situated on the banks of the Dnipro River.<<<

 
Trell

Trell

Audioholic Ninja
Russia is retreating from Kherson.

>>>Russia on Wednesday said it would pull troops out of the southern Ukrainian city of Kherson, which it captured in the early days of the war — a new humiliation for Vladimir Putin.

Russia’s commander in Ukraine, General Sergei Surovikin, said on Russian state TV that it was no longer possible to keep supplying the city, situated on the banks of the Dnipro River.<<<

And there is this:

>>>Actions speak louder than words. We see no signs that Russia is leaving Kherson without a fight. A part of the ru-group is preserved in the city, and additional reserves are charged to the region. [Ukrainian flag image] is liberating territories based on intelligence data, not staged TV statements. <<<

 

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