TV on/off sync issue

Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic Field Marshall
My theory about turning cec off then back on on the fs may have solved it doesn't explain why the tv remote power button was ineffective.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
HDMI-CEC can be a very ugly thing. With many TVs, it is only fully functional when connected to the ARC/eARC port. The receiver can also lose its mind at times and will need HDMI Control turned OFF and back ON to refresh the list of connected devices. Onkyos will display the list of devices on the front panel when doing so.
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
This might be fixed by hot-swapping the HDMI cables, too. Stranger things could happen.

NOTE- some manufacturers advise against changing connections when the equipment is powered, so its best to contact each brands' Tech Support department before doing this.
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Not familiar with the term .
Hot swap means 'Unplug and reconnect while the equipment is powered'.

It can help, some manufacturers advise that it shouldn't be done, ever, while some say it can be done- I would contact the tech support department for FireStick, Onkyo and the TV manufacturer before doing this.

HDMI requires an 'electronic handshake' in order to work- lots of issues can be caused by this not working as it should. If the signal from one is delayed or another piece in the line of equipment isn't ready, things won't work.
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Well, I came home from work and powered it on and everything still works fine. Thx for the help! Seems the issue might be solved.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
I don't have a FireStick, but I use Harmony- not sure why the FS would be confused since there's no two-way communication between it and the equipmnent. I can understand seeing problems if a command from one remote is still being sent when a command from the other remote is being received- some equipment acts like it's blond or stunned when conflicting commands come in.

Battery life is one thing that makes a difference- I have a Harmony Companion that uses a 2032 disc battery and when that is starting to go, the hub won't always respond to the remote, so I test it by using the phone app- if it works immedately and every time, I replace the battery but sometimes, neither works and I just have to wait.
Not sure of the reasons. If I use one to start and another to end, it does generally have an effect. I don't use the phone app much, easier to use the remote. I suspect its somewhere along the lines of the Harmony "toggle" command.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Audioholic Jedi
This morning, the avr and tv powered up with the fs, then down together. So it's working the way it should now. I think when @lovinthehd mentioned where cec was on the fs, I turned it off, then back on again. That must've been what fixed it.
Just keep an eye on it and any use of alternate remote or setup....
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Back to being screwy again since last night. Tried restarting the FS. That didn't help. @lovinthehd mentioned above trying an alternate remote. I have a Sofabaton uni remote that wasn't being used. I programmed only the TV and AVR into it and that didn't help. I powered down the avr and TV then tried to power up the TV with the uni remote and the TV remote. Neither worked. I unplugged the hdmi from the AVR to the tv, then tried the uni remote and it worked. Perhaps it is a setting on my RZ50? I found a setting for cec on/off. I selected "on", but a pop-up came on the TV to use the arc port. Nope. I hate arc. I'm not using that. Looks like I'll use the TV's power button like @TLS Guy suggested.
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic Field Marshall
I plugged the hdmi from the avr into the arc port. That didn't work if the amp is not set to use arc. Tried port 2 on the TV and that is working! At least for now.....
 
highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Not sure of the reasons. If I use one to start and another to end, it does generally have an effect. I don't use the phone app much, easier to use the remote. I suspect its somewhere along the lines of the Harmony "toggle" command.
FIrst, the actual remote used should make absolutely no difference- the commands are the same and it should work the same as if multiple people were receiving messages using Morse Code- the dots, dashes and spaces should mean the same to everyone and whether the code used is IR or hexadecimal, it should work from any controller when there's no two-way communication, like Sonos, etc that shows a change of state in the remote. As far as the 'Harmony toggle command', that's not Harmony's command, it's up to the IR control chip being used and/or the product manufacturer. If the discrete Harmony ON/OFF commands don't work, it's because the device doesn't use them or they were disabled.

The equpment manufacturers don't generally make IR control chips but some have a solid state devices division (Toshiba, Sanyo, etc).

I installed an extensive system for a customer and after a couple of years, they decided they wanted surevillance cameras, so I installed those, with a DVR in the same rack. To make it easy to see what was happening outside without going to the computer or using a phone/tablet that may not be in the family room, I decided to send the video to the TV's component input since the DVR didn't have HDMI and the AVR's component inputs were already being used. I added the needed commands to the activities (Harmony 1000 or 1100, don't remember which but it wouldn't matter) and when I pressed the DVR's Menu button, it switched to the wrong TV input and locked the TV's setup. I had installed a Pioneer commercial plasma, so it had no tuner, but the setup could be locked in applications where someone messing with it would cause major problems for a venue.

I had to scramble to get the info for unlocking the setup (this happened at 3PM on a Friday afternoon) and after getting the system to work normally again, I called Harmony to find out what happened. Tech support, which was as good or better than anyone in the industry as far as remote code maintenance, analysis, etc, saw the code in the customer's account, but asked me to learn an input code- they said the problem was caused by both companies using a Toshiba IR control chip and then, explained that these come from the chip maker with a fairly long list of commands with assigned numbers, but no name, so they could assign that for their own uses. What may be 'Command Lock' for one brand might be called 'Input 3' or 'Menu' for another. If the device manufacturers want to disable commands, they can.

Time Warner and other cable boxes have been another thorn in our sides, for decades- Only toggling power commands work and for awhile, a 'power-numeric' command could be used, but they disabled that, too. I called Scientific Atlanta to find out if discrete power commands could be used and was told that as they were sent to Time Warner, they had that ability but it was disabled. Those boxes also had an IR input jack on the rear and that was also disabled. Anyone who had tried to get an IR emitter to stick to the concave lens knows why that jack would have been very helpful.

I don't know why discrete commands are disabled, but it tells me that the manufacturers don't care about ease of use for people who buy these or those who have to program remotes and deal with all of the setup problems. Having discrete commands would have saved a lot of money for a lot of end users and prevented a lot of headaches for installers (their own, too).
 
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highfigh

highfigh

Seriously, I have no life.
Back to being screwy again since last night. Tried restarting the FS. That didn't help. @lovinthehd mentioned above trying an alternate remote. I have a Sofabaton uni remote that wasn't being used. I programmed only the TV and AVR into it and that didn't help. I powered down the avr and TV then tried to power up the TV with the uni remote and the TV remote. Neither worked. I unplugged the hdmi from the AVR to the tv, then tried the uni remote and it worked. Perhaps it is a setting on my RZ50? I found a setting for cec on/off. I selected "on", but a pop-up came on the TV to use the arc port. Nope. I hate arc. I'm not using that. Looks like I'll use the TV's power button like @TLS Guy suggested.
And the TV/AVR/FS remotes don't work for all commands that haven't been disabled, without ARC or CEC enabled?

It sucks, but starting from scratch WRT remote assignments and inputs may be needed.
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic Field Marshall
And the TV/AVR/FS remotes don't work for all commands that haven't been disabled, without ARC or CEC enabled?

It sucks, but starting from scratch WRT remote assignments and inputs may be needed.
I didn't enable CEC on the RZ50, because my TV wouldn't allow it (couldn't get rid of the pop-up) unless I used arc. I tried to enable CEC on it.
 
T

Trebdp83

Audioholic Spartan
The TV, like many others, will not have full HDMI-CEC functionality without connection to the ARC/eARC port. If connected to another HDMI port, certain commands using the TV’s remote controller may not work at all.

Some TVs work better than others with devices connected through an AVR. I’m not sure about the Fire Stick, but the Fire Cube Gen 3 setup feature is fantastic for setting up the device through an AVR and getting HDMI-CEC to work properly.

Mix in another Android device or a Roku into the system and lookout. I’m not shocked that a Roku TV is not playing nicely with external streamers from other manufacturers. With HDMI-CEC enabled, there is no trouble free system. My setup works but annoys me daily.
 
Squishman

Squishman

Audioholic Field Marshall
The TV, like many others, will not have full HDMI-CEC functionality without connection to the ARC/eARC port. If connected to another HDMI port, certain commands using the TV’s remote controller may not work at all.

Some TVs work better than others with devices connected through an AVR. I’m not sure about the Fire Stick, but the Fire Cube Gen 3 setup feature is fantastic for setting up the device through an AVR and getting HDMI-CEC to work properly.

Mix in another Android device or a Roku into the system and lookout. I’m not shocked that a Roku TV is not playing nicely with external streamers from other manufacturers. With HDMI-CEC enabled, there is no trouble free system. My setup works but annoys me daily.
Just powered down and it is still working fine. If things go stupid again, I'll see about using the uni remote, TV first, then RZ50. At least then it's one remote.
 
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