Turntable Enthusiasts

lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
David, third party mats are not expensive, $25 bucks or less and they can have an effect on bass response. As for the Rega's all coming with felt mats, their top two offerings do not.
How do they have an effect on bass response? Only by ear or measurable?
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Field Marshall
How do they have an effect on bass response? Only by ear or measurable?
while I've never 'measured' a change while experimenting at friends house what we 'heard' was a tightening of bass notes after going from a felt mat to a cork/rubber combo. Now, was it the possible altering of the VTA that did this ? perhaps ...........
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
while I've never 'measured' a change while experimenting at friends house what we 'heard' was a tightening of bass notes after going from a felt mat to a cork/rubber combo. Now, was it the possible altering of the VTA that did this ? perhaps ...........
Probably in your heads at a guess. Why does bass always tighten when some one tweaks gear? :) Hopefully you have the ability to properly set VTA in any case.
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Field Marshall
Probably in your heads at a guess. Why does bass always tighten when some one tweaks gear?
it doesn't always, sometimes it gets a bit 'wooly' !!

Hopefully you have the ability to properly set VTA in any case.
not all tables have the adjustability of the tonearm to do that, so shimming or change of mat can be effective. Rega's being one example.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
it doesn't always, sometimes it gets a bit 'wooly' !!



not all tables have the adjustability of the tonearm to do that, so shimming or change of mat can be effective. Rega's being one example.
LOL it seems 99% of what I read as a result of a tweak it's an improvement in bass or some other part of the frequency spectrum but usually with poor comparison/validation....wishful thinking perhaps? My tt's tonearm is adjustable....no shimming or changing of mat needed.
 
davidscott

davidscott

Audioholic Field Marshall
Thanks guys I might spring for the mat upgrade sometime in the future but it is way down on my list as the felt mat sounds fine to me on the Planar 3. I have read some horror stories about the cork/ rubber mat combos shedding small pieces of cork which would negate any advantage. And I usually listen to cds these days so TT upgrades are not a priority. And yes the Planar 3 does not have the ability to adjust VTA without shims and is a royal pain to change the cartridge. So I have purchased a couple of different stylus upgrades for my cart.
BTW I did have a cork mat back in the 80s on my Thorens Dynavector combo and didn't really notice much difference from the standard rubber mat. Sorry for rambling. :)
 
Yohansen

Yohansen

Audioholic
Hello All,

I'm new to AudioHolics but not to the home audio realm. However, I've recently re-caught the "vinyl bug" and I'm looking for suggestions / recommendations on turntables. We have a plethora of vinyl that has amassed over the year and our current TT isn't functional (no power) and I'd rather not look at fixing due to age.

I've been looking at the following models and would love to hear your feedback / thoughts:

Uturn Orbit line
Fluance RT82/83
Denon DP-300F
Marantz TT42
Music Hall MMF-1.3

My current AVR does support phono input so a built-in amp is not necessary.

Thanks and looking forward to reading your suggestions.
-David
David, I believe that all of the options will offer you a good quality.
I recently purchased a Fluance RT83 and I’m very happy. I never go back to CDs or .flac files!
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Field Marshall
David, I believe that all of the options will offer you a good quality.
I recently purchased a Fluance RT83 and I’m very happy. I never go back to CDs or .flac files!
nice looking TT , enjoy !
 
Yohansen

Yohansen

Audioholic
Many thanks,
If you can afford get a Thorens or a Rega Planar
...just my 2 cents...
 
Mikado463

Mikado463

Audioholic Field Marshall
agreed on the Rega and it all starts(IMO) with the 3 and goes up from there.
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
There certainly could be reasons why a turntable mat could alter bass performance.

The first and most likely is better isolation of the disc from LF vibration interference from the speakers. This is a well known and common problem with LP reproduction and certainly does have its maximum deleterious effects in the bass decade. That is why I isolate my turntable inside cabinets and take constructional steps to minimize this. In the hey day, turntables were nearly always enclosed in substantial cabinets. This lasted until the introduction of the ubiquitous plinth from the Far East. When I bought three of the four turntables I own they never came with a plinth. As I have said before in those days, you bought a turntable, pickup arm and cartridge. You were supposed to have enough "chops" to sort this out and make a good job of it. If not you were condemned to a ghastly table player or radiogram with a dreadful auto changer.

The other reason might be that some turntables may have some excess rumble, and the mat provides an extra measure of isolation. This would improve bass also.

Turntable reproduction is very fickle. Small problems of set up and installation have a disproportionate effect to downgrade results.

Many turntables do not even allow for proper set up. When it comes to PU arms there are far more bad ones than good ones. SME really have been at the head of the pack. Their introduction of the silicon fluid damper, was a game changer in my view.

Next obsessional record care and handling is essential. In my collection pops and ticks are rare, and it does sound like a CD.

I think a lot of the vinyl is better than CD comes from two issues.

In the hey day of the LP companies had career engineers who worked with usually one company for a life time and really know their craft. So the recordings were better then now in a great many cases.
In addition there are analog to CD transfers that are less then stellar, with the LP being better then the CD. There are a few of those I have come across.

I think the biggest reason though is that the dynamic range of an LP is by necessity restricted. This on the one hand limits the amount of dynamic compression that can be applied to pop music.

On the other hand I think there are still many systems that do not actually cope with the wide dynamic range of digital music. This is particularly true of speakers. A great many lack sufficient power band response in critical areas, and add their own dynamic compression along with distortion. It really does take an incredible speaker system to really cope with the dynamic that good digital sources have to offer. Then we also get into clipping in the amplification part of the equation. This is not only in the power amp end of things, but I have found many units over the years designed with insufficient headroom in the preamp stages. I have a feeling this is still likely prevalent. These issues can give a definite advantage to LP over digital sources in many systems.
 
S

sterling shoote

Audioholic General
There certainly could be reasons why a turntable mat could alter bass performance.

The first and most likely is better isolation of the disc from LF vibration interference from the speakers. This is a well known and common problem with LP reproduction and certainly does have its maximum deleterious effects in the bass decade. That is why I isolate my turntable inside cabinets and take constructional steps to minimize this. In the hey day, turntables were nearly always enclosed in substantial cabinets. This lasted until the introduction of the ubiquitous plinth from the Far East. When I bought three of the four turntables I own they never came with a plinth. As I have said before in those days, you bought a turntable, pickup arm and cartridge. You were supposed to have enough "chops" to sort this out and make a good job of it. If not you were condemned to a ghastly table player or radiogram with a dreadful auto changer.

The other reason might be that some turntables may have some excess rumble, and the mat provides an extra measure of isolation. This would improve bass also.

Turntable reproduction is very fickle. Small problems of set up and installation have a disproportionate effect to downgrade results.

Many turntables do not even allow for proper set up. When it comes to PU arms there are far more bad ones than good ones. SME really have been at the head of the pack. Their introduction of the silicon fluid damper, was a game changer in my view.

Next obsessional record care and handling is essential. In my collection pops and ticks are rare, and it does sound like a CD.

I think a lot of the vinyl is better than CD comes from two issues.

In the hey day of the LP companies had career engineers who worked with usually one company for a life time and really know their craft. So the recordings were better then now in a great many cases.
In addition there are analog to CD transfers that are less then stellar, with the LP being better then the CD. There are a few of those I have come across.

I think the biggest reason though is that the dynamic range of an LP is by necessity restricted. This on the one hand limits the amount of dynamic compression that can be applied to pop music.

On the other hand I think there are still many systems that do not actually cope with the wide dynamic range of digital music. This is particularly true of speakers. A great many lack sufficient power band response in critical areas, and add their own dynamic compression along with distortion. It really does take an incredible speaker system to really cope with the dynamic that good digital sources have to offer. Then we also get into clipping in the amplification part of the equation. This is not only in the power amp end of things, but I have found many units over the years designed with insufficient headroom in the preamp stages. I have a feeling this is still likely prevalent. These issues can give a definite advantage to LP over digital sources in many systems.
Listening to Sheffield Labs "Dave Grusin" direct to LP Master this morning, I'm reminded of how good LPs can sound. That's to say, LPs are sometimes preferable to other means to recorded music. It's why I still have two turntables in my system. Nevertheless, these days, I'm mostly drawn to multi-channel SACDs and FLAC downloads for their breadth and depth, which I enjoy via an OPPO-205 Universal Player.
 
Yohansen

Yohansen

Audioholic
Listening to Sheffield Labs "Dave Grusin" direct to LP Master this morning, I'm reminded of how good LPs can sound. That's to say, LPs are sometimes preferable to other means to recorded music. It's why I still have two turntables in my system. Nevertheless, these days, I'm mostly drawn to multi-channel SACDs and FLAC downloads for their breadth and depth, which I enjoy via an OPPO-205 Universal Player.
Thank you for the info TLs Guy,
Do you think that an acrylic platter would make a difference? And why?
I hust ordered one from Fluance.
Thanks in advance
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Audioholic Slumlord
Thank you for the info TLs Guy,
Do you think that an acrylic platter would make a difference? And why?
I hust ordered one from Fluance.
Thanks in advance
I have no idea of your situation. Most likely it will make no difference. I have four turntables and they all use their original mats. Three turntables are in the range of 50 to 60 years old and one is about 40 or so years old. The mats they came with are just fine. Two Garrard 301, one with an SME series II improved, and one with a Decca ffss arm and head. One Thorens TD 150 and a TD 125 MK 11 with SME series 3 arms.
 
Yohansen

Yohansen

Audioholic
I have no idea of your situation. Most likely it will make no difference. I have four turntables and they all use their original mats. Three turntables are in the range of 50 to 60 years old and one is about 40 or so years old. The mats they came with are just fine. Two Garrard 301, one with an SME series II improved, and one with a Decca ffss arm and head. One Thorens TD 150 and a TD 125 MK 11 with SME series 3 arms.
Hi TLS, I have heard that the acrylic platter is reducing static and improves bass response, also it does something good to the dumpening.
 
Verdinut

Verdinut

Audioholic Samurai
Hi TLS, I have heard that the acrylic platter is reducing static and improves bass response, also it does something good to the dumpening.
You definitely have a lot to learn. Bass response has nothing to do with a turntable platter.
 

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