Troubles continue...Panasonic Plasma TH58PZ700U

stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
I've installed plenty of Panny plasmas, this is the first time I hear of this issue, could it be that something's loose in back of the tv? Is your tv wall a stud wall? Can there be something loose in the wall that will resonate at very low frequencies?
 
ParadigmDawg

ParadigmDawg

Audioholic Overlord
That's silly, the speaker nor the cabinet should rattle and the set should be returned for one that is not broken.
Quite frankly I would expect TV speakers to cause rattle. My TV does not even have speakers.

Why don't you get an integrated amp such as a NAD, or get one on eBay? There are lots of good vintage ones for sale. Get a couple of decent speakers, and you will have 75% of the loaf of Home theater at least.

And you get to keep your TV which is a good one.
 
J

Jim Robbins

Audioholic
There are a lot of things that rattle that shouldn't. For example, my "quiet" bathroom fans rattle terribly. They are just crap. I stuck some felt pads on the part covering the light bulb to stop it. My dehumidifier for my basement rattles, so I jammed in some cardboard around a few edges. These items came like this new. It's not inconceivable to think that the TV was not tested for resonant frequencies. Really, if a replacement unit doesn't fix it, then it sounds like all of them will do it. I like the Dynamat idea. If that doesn't work, and you have the TV mounted on, or close to a wall, can you press something up against the back between the TV and the wall? Of course, taking it apart and putting dynamat inside would really be best, but I doubt you can do that an not void the warranty. Hmm, just remembered, I had my new dryer do the same thing a couple of years ago. The service guy came and took the whole thing apart and added foam tape all over the inside where parts were touching. Then came back again and added foam. It's much better now!

Btw, sounds like you have a great plan for you theater man. I'd love to know how you like that Integra when you get it all going. Later...
 
K

klondike

Audioholic Intern
Update!!!

Here is an update for everyone. I would like to start off by saying thanks to EVERYONE who posted in this thread. I really took most of each person's input in making my decision on how to proceed. I also took into consideration that I am very happy with the PQ on this set and that my only other option is to spend a LOT more on a Pioneer. This really helped persuade me to go after the solution along with a conversation with the Field Service Manager at Panasonic. If anyone has this same issue and needs to speak with him please PM me and I can put you directly in contact with him. He is the only person in Panasonic authorized to help out with this issue.

I had an "unoffical" converasation with the Field Service Manager at Panasonic and he verified that this Rattle and Vibration is an inherent Design Flaw. He was not really allowed to say this but he was being very straight up with me. He also said swapping out for another set will not help the issue since they all do this. He informed me that Panasonic knows of the issue and have come up with three options. The first option is they can send out a Field Service Rep to install a special "kit" that they have developed and are still developing that is installed in the TV to help quiet it down. He was very honest with me in saying that the response he has gotten from the 8 test units they have installed it in around the country is not positive. He said from the reports it looks like at best the issue is improved maybe 20 %. They are trying to improve this kit with the feed back they are getting from the field but it is not looking good. As a second option they are willing to give a full refund on the TV. As a Third option he said that Panasonic is offering customers a home theater system. We did not go into the specifics of the system but I will have him send me one on Monday. We also discussed using my unit as a test for the kit and giving feed back on how it can be improved. I will be exersizing option 3 but have also decided to take matters into my own hands.

I had a good friend come over after explaining the issue. We decided to take apart my TV and hunt down the issue and see what we could do. We started by findind a Blue Ray disc that we could easily reproduce the issue with. For this we used the first part of Fifth Element with the TV set on the factory settings and the volume on 24 out of 63. We also tapped around on the TV lightly to see exactly what was resonating on the back panel and the behavior of the resonance.
Then we proceeded to remove the back panel.
P1000848.JPG
This is what it looks like with the back panel off. We installed very light thin foam weather striping around the perimiter of the TV to be sandwiched between the TV and the back panel. We played the TV with the panel off and found that a few of the blue capacitors where touching so we seperated them just very slightly so they would not contact each other and create a rattle against each other. We also put a screw driver on all the fastners and made sure everything was tight.
P1000847.JPG
We listened to the TV with the cover on and off. We found the below sub woofer to be the main culprit of the resonant issues. It is an active driver in a small enclosure using a passive radiator. This sub floats on three rubber grommets inside the TV to help isolate vibrations when low frequencies are played. This sub sits about an 1/8th of an inch away from the back panel. First of all we found that each sub (there is one in each bottom corner) had two small pieces of sound deadening foam that where about 1/8th inch thick. This essentially make contact with the back panel. When the subs vibrate on thier rubber isolation mounts they shake the against the back panel cuasing it to vibrate. The air being moved by these subs also cuased the back panel to vibrate. We noticed that each sub was only being held in by one screw on one of the rubber isolation mounts. The other two had a screw missing. If we held the sub by hand when vibrating it moved around less. So we put in the other two screws to help limit the movement of the sub. We also moved the little rubber foam deadening pads so the sub would not make contact with the back panel when vibrating. This helped remove a good 30% of the vibration. We also noticed that the back panel was not secured anywhere in the center and was very flimsy in that area. So when re-installing the back panel we decided to put in 4 bolts that go in the holes for an optional mount if one wants to mount the TV on a wall. This braced the center very well and helped remove about 30% of the vibration in itself.
P1000850.JPG
Below you can see the the bass driver in one of the subs with the passive radiator. This sucker really shakes around when a base note hits since it is essentially free floating on its three rubber mounts.
P1000852.JPG

We re-assembled the back and the reduction in rattle/vibration was a LOT better. A good 70%. This is a lot better than what Panasonic reported with thier "kit" installation. Then we did some listening tests and decided to go into the sound menus. We turned off the BBE processing. This improved the sound and eliminated another 20% of the vibration. Where able to turn up the TV to 35 with 90% of the vibration gone. Now it is like a normal TV. One can listen to a Blue Ray Disc hearing everything perfectly with ample volume and little to no vibration. I would say it is still there just a tiny bit but you will almost never hear it at this point since it is only happens on rare occassion when a loud and low bass note hits with the volume up very loud. The vibration is pretty much gone.

I was happy with the results to say the least. I am really happy with the TV now and the PQ is amazing. On the last listening tests we forgot about listening for the vibration and ended up watching half way through the movie. :)
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
K, congrats and enjoy your tv. Let the Panny guy know what you found as this can be something Panasonic can incorporate into their "fix" kit. I guess this issue will only be a problem for those using the TV speakers only.
 
G

gus6464

Audioholic Samurai
Yeah and also get Panasonic to send you a free BD player or something for showing them how to properly "kit" the TV! :D:D:D
 
K

klondike

Audioholic Intern
I talked to the contact at Panasonic. They are sending me a free surround sound system. I am going to install it at my folks house :D

I watched a couple Blue Ray movies recently on the Panny and they look just amazing. I used the TV speakers and my mods are working VERY well.

Now on to bigger and better things.... Today I picked up an Integra 9.8 :D:D:D

Now I just have to find time to hook it up. I am going to start shopping for a killer multi-channel amp. I have been eyeing the A1400, MPS-1, MPS-2, and a few others.
 
E

Emusica

Audioholic
I talked to the contact at Panasonic. They are sending me a free surround sound system. I am going to install it at my folks house :D

I watched a couple Blue Ray movies recently on the Panny and they look just amazing. I used the TV speakers and my mods are working VERY well.

Now on to bigger and better things.... Today I picked up an Integra 9.8 :D:D:D

Now I just have to find time to hook it up. I am going to start shopping for a killer multi-channel amp. I have been eyeing the A1400, MPS-1, MPS-2, and a few others.
Good times ahead!:D
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Glad everything has worked out, get you HT up and running asap and you'll forget it ever happened.:)
 
stratman

stratman

Audioholic Ninja
Hi, This post is very informative, however I would like some specific information. If someone can help me then please send me a private message. Best Regards,
What specific info do you need?
 
J

jlahk

Audioholic Intern
I talked to the contact at Panasonic. They are sending me a free surround sound system. I am going to install it at my folks house :D

I watched a couple Blue Ray movies recently on the Panny and they look just amazing. I used the TV speakers and my mods are working VERY well.

Now on to bigger and better things.... Today I picked up an Integra 9.8 :D:D:D

Now I just have to find time to hook it up. I am going to start shopping for a killer multi-channel amp. I have been eyeing the A1400, MPS-1, MPS-2, and a few others.
Let us know which amp you end up buying?

I am a little confused though--why did you need to modify the speakers if you're planning on using an external sound system?
 
G

Georgeair

Audiophyte
I'm having exactly the same problem, with a new unit of the same model. Making me crazy, but glad to find there is a home-grown fix!
 
M

Mort Corey

Senior Audioholic
I wonder if Panasonic could, or would, void the warranty because of end user modifications? Sounds like it all worked out for the better.....but

Mort
 
C

compaulsive

Audiophyte
I have the 42" version of this plasma tv and am having the same speaker issue. Their sending out the regional service rep tomorrow to examine the tv after they've already replaced both the left and right speaker without fixing the problem.

I'd like to get the contact information to the field rep that is familar with the problem. This will be the 3rd day I've taken off to met the repair reps.
 
A

AudioToad

Audiophyte
What's the Panasonic Contact Info, If Possible. Many thanks.

Thanks Klondike, for the xlnt info, pics, &c.
I have a rattling woofer problem, as well, but the PQ is so fab, I hate to return the set.
Could you please let me know what the Panasonic contact info is, since I may go the repair route (with the kit, &c.).
 
TLS Guy

TLS Guy

Seriously, I have no life.
Thanks Klondike, for the xlnt info, pics, &c.
I have a rattling woofer problem, as well, but the PQ is so fab, I hate to return the set.
Could you please let me know what the Panasonic contact info is, since I may go the repair route (with the kit, &c.).
I fail to understand why there is so much fuss about the quality of internal TV speakers. I would expect them to be bad and rattle. I think the problem with these TVs, is that Panasonic tried too hard. I would have put in a couple of cheap 3 inch speakers, or no speakers at all. Then nothing would rattle.

The best solution for this, if you don't want full HT, is to buy an old receiver on eBay and get a couple of speakers.

A TV cabinet, is just no place t try and put speakers with any type of bass response. If you do expect rattle!
 
A

acacia987

Junior Audioholic
completely agree. i don't think i have ever actually heard my panasonics internal speakers. hooked up to my 2.1 setup from the beginning. i actually wanted a TV without speakers so it would have a smaller bevel, but i couldn't beat the PQ, so i went with it.
 
K

klondike

Audioholic Intern
Haven't checked this thread in a while. I don't remember where I wrote down the reps info at the moment. If I find it I will post it.

I purchased an Integra 9.8 after fixing this issue a few months back.

I also just picked up an XPA-5 and some Blue jeans cable XLR interconnects.

I hooked it all up tonight and it sounds amazing.
 

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