Troubles continue...Panasonic Plasma TH58PZ700U

[klondike]

In the last few months I have been researching a new Plasma TV to purchase. After many hours spent reading, researching, and most importantly viewing... I decided on that Panasonic TH58PZ700U. I purchased the TV on January 9th, 2008 about a week ago. I set the TV up and was watching a movie the next day and heard a really wierd "vibration" and "rattling" sound is emmitted from the back of the TV when the viewing movie passages having low frequency sound accompanying them.

I don't expect much from TV speakers and these ones actually sound decent but this rattling / vibration noise that is being generated during low frequencies is extremely annoying.

I called the Panasonic Concierge service and they where very nice and scheduled a service technician to come out today January 16th, 2008. I had to take off from work for this appointment. The customer service rep from Panasonic stated that they would send any parts to the service company (they subcontract thier field service out) so they would have them before they came. She also mentioned that they would call the day before to narrow down the time and gave me thier number with instructions to call if I did not hear from them. (I was later told by a supervisor that this should not have been said.) No one called the day before so I called today morning (Jan 16th.) and they said that the technician was not comming today and that instead he was going to come tomorrow since they have not recieved any parts. I explained to them that this was not a good thing since I already took the day off for this appointment and that each day I take off costs me significant money. The person at the electronics service company said they would talk to thier supervisor and put me on hold. They came back and said they would send the technician out today so he could at least see if he could narrow down what the problem was and/or the parts needed.

The technician came shortly after and took one look at what the TV was doing and siad there was nothing that he could do at the moment to fix the issue since the it appeared the entire back plate of the TV was rattling under low frequencies from the TV. He said he was not aware of how this could be fixed.

I purchased the TV from Best Buy in case I had any issues then I would at least get some support from the store or be able to return it. According to Best Buy they have a 60 day return policy and I was informed today that they just extended that to 90 days.

I spoke to Panasonic and they said they are going to have a Panasonic Field Technician Advisor call the Field Service Technician within the next 24 to 48 hours to find out what they discovered and possibly advise them on how to resolve the issue. I was told that I should also recieve a call to follow up on this within 24 to 48 hours.

So now I am sitting here with this VERY expensive plasma TV that has awesome Picture Quality but has horrible build quality.

I called Best Buy to double check that I can return the TV if the issue is not resolved and they said that they would not have an issue with returning it for up to 90 days.

I think I am going to wait for 48 hours for Panasonic to contact me. Depending on what they say I will make a decision on weather to continue allowing them to fix the issue or to return the set to Best Buy.

I am very disturbed by this. This TV is close to 150 LBS! It took quite a bit of effort to get this thing home and set it up in my house.

I am frustrated to say the least. I really pushed my budget to get this TV and don't really know what other options I would even have at this price point. The Pioneer Plasmas where the only ones I liked as much (or more) but they are considerably higher in cost.

For lack of better words, I feel pretty screwed right now.

For those of you who want to follow from my other thread...

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=38466

Thanks for listening.

 

[annunaki]

Even the best of everything can have some problems once in a while.

Cheer up, it is not the end of the world. The worst thing is that you can exchange the set for a different one.

If it were me, the set would have gone straight back to Best Buy rather than calling in for warranty work. Sure it sucks to lug it around, but you just purchased it.

In any case don't get too upset. You situation is completely rectifiable. Panasonic makes a great television. Don't let a small issue like your sway your confidence. It can happen to the best of companies.

 

[Jim Robbins]

Is it possible to adjust the bass response somewhere in the menu to lessen the rattling sound? I mean, if the whole TV is resonating and it's not just some loose part in there, this might be the only way to help, other than using an external sound system. *shrug*

 

[klondike]

Even the best of everything can have some problems once in a while.

Cheer up, it is not the end of the world. The worst thing is that you can exchange the set for a different one.

If it were me, the set would have gone straight back to Best Buy rather than calling in for warranty work. Sure it sucks to lug it around, but you just purchased it.

In any case don't get too upset. You situation is completely rectifiable. Panasonic makes a great television. Don't let a small issue like your sway your confidence. It can happen to the best of companies.

Thanks. I appreciate the words of encurougment. I have already accepted that returning the TV is a possibility. I am not going to let this get to me further.

I am not sure if I should try a second set of the same model or go for another model/brand. It seems that other sets have had the same issue.

It does seem to be a design flaw. I am a relatively patient person but I am not into wasting time for diminished returns. That said, I do believe in giving a business a fair shot at providing a good product and good service. That is why I felt it was only the right thing to do as a good consumer to call them. No one is perfect... It is high levels of customer service that make a company really stand out.

As of now I am not too happy with Panasonic. I will sleep on it a bit and decide where to go from here.

I agree the situation is rectifiable but I must say that so far Panasonic is not giving me a lot of confidence in thier ability to resolve this.

Thanks again.

 

[annunaki]

Well, what needs to be determined is if there is an inherent design flaw or, if there is simply something not screwed down completely. Panasonic builds one of the nicest plasmas out there sans Pioneer for the money. Your only option at equal or better performance is to go to a Pioneer. Anything else is a step backward in terms of piture quality.


Honestly, why are you attempting to use the speakers in the tv anyway. Getting a TV like that without a sound system to match is like buying a Ferrari but getting a motor from a Fiat put in. It looks great but the sound and performance is not there.

 

[jlahk]

Honestly, why are you attempting to use the speakers in the tv anyway. Getting a TV like that without a sound system to match is like buying a Ferrari but getting a motor from a Fiat put in. It looks great but the sound and performance is not there.

Seconded! I've never listed to the speakers on the plasma, but I couldn't imagine watching that kind of display without a serious sound system.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I understand using the TV speakers. We use them when watching normal ol' late night TV and then turn on the system for things we are really interested in. Bottom line is the TV speakers should work properly. I wouldnt waste a second of time, take it back to BB, you paid good money for the display and it should work without replacing parts. Take it back right now and dont hesitate to but another one just like it.

 

[markw]

I'd have taken it back for another one just like it.

If it doesn't have that problem, you're good to go.

It that one had the same flaw, I'd say it's a design issue and take that second one back for a different make/model.

Problem solved in less than two weeks.

 

[annunaki]

I agree with Greg that the set should work regardless of whether or not you use the speakers.

However, late night TV viewing is much easier to listen to, and hear, with a decent pair of speakers. The cheesy, built in, flat panel TV speakers have to be run harder to produce the same output levels of a good basic bookshelf speaker. Inherently they will have higher distortion and thus will be harder to hear than a decent outboard speaker. Sure, it is more convenient, but will not produce audio/dialogue as clearly and cleanly.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

Just something about being tired late at night and then the commercial coming on that is 10db louder. It is less jolting through the TV speakers. I could always watch in night mode through the AVR but I would have to push a button on the remote and chances are, I left the remote in the chair and would have to get off the couch, walk to the chair...awww...you get it...

I agree with Greg that the set should work regardless of whether or not you use the speakers.

However, late night TV viewing is much easier to listen to, and hear, with a decent pair of speakers. The cheesy, built in, flat panel TV speakers have to be run harder to produce the same output levels of a good basic bookshelf speaker. Inherently they will have higher distortion and thus will be harder to hear than a decent outboard speaker. Sure, it is more convenient, but will not produce audio/dialogue as clearly and cleanly.

 

[annunaki]

Just something about being tired late at night and then the commercial coming on that is 10db louder. It is less jolting through the TV speakers. I could always watch in night mode through the AVR but I would have to push a button on the remote and chances are, I left the remote in the chair and would have to get off the couch, walk to the chair...awww...you get it...

Sounds like laziness to me, and a slap in the face to audioholics everywhere!

 

[Emusica]

Return that one for another one. When you get that one home, adjust the bass. How loud was the tv when you heard the vibration? I can tell you now, my tv speakers suck if there is bass heavy or even loud music/action. I believe that particular set you have actually has seperate woofers and tweeters, so they may need a little adjusting. Still probably sound like poop but that's why you have a reciever.

 

[gus6464]

You can return the TV and have BB take out the replacement so you can check it in the store. Since you are within store's return policy I wouldn't have even bothered calling Panasonic. I say take it back and get another one.

I was in the same situation as you but I had a Toshiba LCD give me the problems and the Panasonic Plasma was the one that replaced it. It's been about 4 months since I have had it in my home and it has been flawless.

 

[TLS Guy]

Quite frankly I would expect TV speakers to cause rattle. My TV does not even have speakers.

Why don't you get an integrated amp such as a NAD, or get one on eBay? There are lots of good vintage ones for sale. Get a couple of decent speakers, and you will have 75% of the loaf of Home theater at least.

And you get to keep your TV which is a good one.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thanks. I appreciate the words of encurougment. I have already accepted that returning the TV is a possibility. I am not going to let this get to me further.

I am not sure if I should try a second set of the same model or go for another model/brand. It seems that other sets have had the same issue.

It does seem to be a design flaw. I am a relatively patient person but I am not into wasting time for diminished returns. That said, I do believe in giving a business a fair shot at providing a good product and good service. That is why I felt it was only the right thing to do as a good consumer to call them. No one is perfect... It is high levels of customer service that make a company really stand out.

As of now I am not too happy with Panasonic. I will sleep on it a bit and decide where to go from here.

I agree the situation is rectifiable but I must say that so far Panasonic is not giving me a lot of confidence in thier ability to resolve this.

Thanks again.

If this cannot be fixed if that is what you decide, and want to try another of the same kind, and, the rattling was caused by the sound from a DVD movie, not an on line movie, take that DVD to the store to test it with the other TV that you are thinking of taking home.
Or, as was suggested, get external speaker setup.

 

[klondike]

I just read all the responses to my post. Here are a few comments.

The speakers in the model I have actually sound very good for TV speakers. I am not sure how they produce so much sound but I can tell you that everything is very clear. I can hear dialog so easily and with out any strain. My father was over watching a movie and checking out the TV and the first thing he said was " I wish I could hear everything so clearly at lower volumes the way I can with your new TV." He felt that it was super clear and it was.

It seems the speaker has a small sub in the back of the TV. It produces a good amount of bass. The speakers are not distorting in the least bit. The bass driver is moving so much air it is rattling the back of the TV!!! It has nothing to do with the quality of the sound. It is the design of the TV. The way the back is designed it has no bracing or sound deadening to absorb all the air being moved by the little bass drivers in the TV. The speakers on this TV sound better than any internal TV speakers I have heard on any set.

I actually have the TV hooked up to my Parasound Pre-Amp/Amp and Legacy Classic speakers. It sounds awesome through my stereo even with out a surround system.

To me, the TV should work correctly as it was intended to by its designers. I doubt the engineers at Panasonic "intended" for a low frequency note to rattle the back of the display. Especially considering the high cost of this set. That would not make sense.

Of course I am going to put a sweet Home Theater system together for whatever display I end up with. I was hoping the technician would have fixed the issue today because I found an Integra 9.8 that is comming in a couple days to a local dealer that hadn't been nabbed yet. I was hoping to put a deposit on it today. I try to do things in steps. I break down a system into managable parts and make sure each part is working well before going to the next part. With the 9.8 so hard to get I may have to skip this logic and just get it when I can.

Once I get the 9.8 my next step is to get a REALLY nice amp. My Parasound has been really good to me for the last 15 years with no issues. It sounds as good as the day I hooked it up. The point is I don't mind dropping a little coin on a great amp because I know the likelyhood is that I will be keeping it for many many years. My favorite Amps are the Brystons. They are pricey. Some of the amps I am considering are the Emotiva MPS-1, the Brystons, and the A1400 from Axiom Audio. I am also looking at a few others.

I am in the process of sorting through all of my options (and there are a TON) and learning as much as I can about Home Theater.

I am also looking into building my own custom speakers to eventualy repalce my old Legacy Classics. This would also include building subs (if needed), the center channel, and the surround speakers.

I have not decided for sure but I am working on putting together something that will most likely use ScanSpeak 9500 Tweeters mated with some ScanSpeak Revalator Mids. One of the things i have not decided is weather to go two way or three way for the mains (plus subs). The two way will most likely do the trick. I am also looking at a design that uses a killer high power servo sub system which may eliminate the need for seperate subs. I am considering putting these directly in each tower or maybe just building dual subs in seperate cabinates. I also have to decide betwen 12 and 15's for these. The servo sub is not a boomy sub it is very tight and controlled. I can take the bi-amp channels from the integra 9.8 and run them to the sub portions. If I do this type of sub then I will have a ton of power since the amp will only be sending power to the two/three way mains, two way satellites, and the center channel. Can you imagine an A1400 running basically the mains, center and satallites??? With everything under 80 HZ powered by the sub/sub-amps. I would have a ton of power on tap. I am also looking at doing the center channel using ScanSpeak drivers to match.

Now that I have given you a hint of what i am working on developing for my Home Theater system you can see that this will not happen over night. It is taking a ton of research and I am just begining. I think I am on the right path for now. Also, I am on a paced out budget so I would rather take my time and get what I want instead of doing it all in one shot and getting lesser components.

So here is a summary of what it "may" look like...

Integra 9.8 ( I think this is a good starting point)
A1400 (This is the amp I am leaning towards but I am going to wait for Gene D. to test it and hopefully hear it myself. )
Mains with ScanSpeak 9500/Revalator comb.
Servo Subs (750 watts or more each) possibly integrated into the mains or Seperate.
Center Channel (possibly with ScanSpeak 9500/Revalator combo)
Rear/Satellites (possibly with ScanSpeak 9500/Revalator combo)

I am estimating I will have at least $10,000.00 Grand into this easy if I do custom speakers instead of going with what is out there.

This stuff will obviously take a good amount of time. If all goes well I may have it up and running by the end of 2008. Who knows with my crazy life what obsticals will come my way.

As far as the TV goes... the speakers should not rattle the main rear panel of the TV with the sound on the default Zero settings and the volume half way up with a DVD. I think it is rediculous that this is even happening. There is nothing loose. It is clearly a design flaw in the TV. Remember I had a tech at my house look at it and verified there is nothing loose. He felt it was a design flaw also.

There is a good chance it will be going back on Friday or Saturday if I can make some time.

I think that having them hook up a DVD player and bringing in a disk to reproduce the issue on a replacement set is a great idea if the people at BB are willing to do this.

I agree the Pioneer seems to be my only option if the Panasonic does not work out.

 

[klondike]

I was just searching around looking at the cost of the Pioneer 1080P Plasmas. The closest sizes are the 50" and the 60". They are both a lot more money. Even the 50" is $600.00 more than what I paid for the Panasonic 58". The 60" is $2400.00 more than what I paid for the Panasonic.

For that much difference in price maybe I will just "live" with the rattle until I am done building my Home Theater system and put the extra money towards the integra 9.8.

I will sleep on it.

 

[Tyreman]

In the Panny Viera catalogue I have it lists the specs on the audio of the 58PZ700 no "U" at the end as 31 watts at 10%THD!!!

no tolerance either say within so many db!!

Let alone the frequency response-+..possibilities

'65" to 42" PZ models in this catalogue have the appearance of the same amp ........as they show the spec the same as this.

So it quite possible its a compromise situation.(by design as well)

All the r&d went into the picture

You may be running this thing at its clipping point to.
it won't take much to do that in fact very little.

The amp section is is just not stable at the volume you require.
Its power supply may be going unstable

It won't take much to to do that.

Thats a fairly high amount of distortion.

I mean it "could" be a bad speaker,looose internal componentry-+ or such but..

You would do well to try another brand and satisfy yourself and check its specs as well.

That brand may restrict the lower frequencies to compensate for the deficiencies

if it was me(its not) I would just turn off those internal speaker units for now.

NO internal speaker/amp combo will cut the mustard thats currently manufactured in sound quality compared to external units of even a middle line good quality branded speaker purchase..but you know that already.

 

[klondike]

In the Panny Viera catalogue I have it lists the specs on the audio of the 58PZ700 no "U" at the end as 31 watts at 10%THD!!!

no tolerance either say within so many db!!

Let alone the frequency response-+..possibilities

'65" to 42" PZ models in this catalogue have the appearance of the same amp ........as they show the spec the same as this.

So it quite possible its a compromise situation.(by design as well)

All the r&d went into the picture

You may be running this thing at its clipping point to.
it won't take much to do that in fact very little.

The amp section is is just not stable at the volume you require.
Its power supply may be going unstable

It won't take much to to do that.

Thats a fairly high amount of distortion.

I mean it "could" be a bad speaker,looose internal componentry-+ or such but..

You would do well to try another brand and satisfy yourself and check its specs as well.

That brand may restrict the lower frequencies to compensate for the deficiencies

if it was me(its not) I would just turn off those internal speaker units for now.

NO internal speaker/amp combo will cut the mustard thats currently manufactured in sound quality compared to external units of even a middle line good quality branded speaker purchase..but you know that already.

You bring up some interesing points. I don't believe the volume that we are talking about would require anywhere near 31 watts. I would consider it a very low volume. If you put your hand on the back of the TV and press a little when it makes this rattle during low frequencies the rattle stops. So therefore I believe the "rattle" has nothing to do with distortion.

Turning off the internal speakers is an option. I may try another set of the same model to see if I can get rid of it. If not I may just have to live with it in trade for good PQ. Since the Pioneer is a LOT more money and for me not adding much value for the extra cost increase.

 

[annunaki]

What about adding a piece of dynamat on the back of the televison? I am sure this would cure your vibration issue. I would suggest the stuff with a silver/aluminum backing as it is high weight per square foot. It will simply lower the the resonant frequency of the back panel to the point where it will no longer be audible. It is a simple, cheap fix that lets you save a substantial amount of cash in not purchasing the Pioneer.