Trim vs Volume

[Old Onkyo]

I reading another thread and at some point someone mentioned turning up the trim of the speakers. I didn’t want to sidetrack the larger discussion so I am posting my question here.

1. What is the difference in the two?

If I turn up the trim on my speakers I play the volume lower, if I turn the trim down then I compensate by turning the volume higher.

What’s best?

 

[Steve81]

Trim controls are for calibration, such that each speaker is putting out the same level with test tones at the seats, and that when the master volume is set to 0dB, the system is set to reference level.

 

[M Code]

Trim level is the fine adjustment for each channel... Whereas the master volume adjusts all channels together.. But note the channels trim levels are typically +/-10dB, and master volume up to +10dB...
But if a channel trim adjusted to a boost position such as +4dB then the max master volume level is now adjusted downward to +6dB as the entire DSP platform has a certain amount of total gain available..

Just my $0.02...

 

[Old Onkyo]

Trim controls are for calibration, such that each speaker is putting out the same level with test tones at the seats, and that when the master volume is set to 0dB, the system is set to reference level.

So does it matter if I use zero as the reference for setting trim levels, or plus three? It’s all relative

But if a channel trim adjusted to a boost position such as +4dB then the max master volume level is now adjusted downward to +6dB as the entire DSP platform has a certain amount of total gain available..

Just my $0.02...

So zero should be the reference point.

 

[Steve81]

Zero on the master volume should be the reference point (i.e. reference level), with the trims adjusted accordingly. That said, the world probably won't end if that's not the case.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I reading another thread and at some point someone mentioned turning up the trim of the speakers. I didn’t want to sidetrack the larger discussion so I am posting my question here.

1. What is the difference in the two?

If I turn up the trim on my speakers I play the volume lower, if I turn the trim down then I compensate by turning the volume higher.

What’s best?

To me it’s just semantics. If you turn up the trims to “satisfy” a certain dial number, you just have to turn the MV up lower to reach the same decibel level. The AVR won’t make any more power or have any more available. It’s like setting the gain on your sub higher. To be “level” with the other speakers, the sub trim in the AVR will have to be lower to be equal in output. The main point of trims is to balance the output between speakers. In normal operation the ranges being discussed are largely moot.

 

[M Code]

Zero on the master volume should be the reference point (i.e. reference level),with the trims adjusted accordingly. That said, the world probably won't end if that's not the case.

0dB @ the master volume is calibrated @1V RMS 1 kHz source input signal and rated power output into 8 Ohms... Note that the default channel trim settings for an AVR out of the box are @0DB..

Just my $0.02...

 

[GrimSurfer]

Using trim and volume against one another seems a little... awkward or inelegant. I'm of the same view as @Steve81 on this issue.

 

[M Code]

Using trim and volume against one another seems a little... awkward or inelegant. I'm of the same view as @Steve81 on this issue.

Don't agree...
Trim simply means a fine adjustment...
When running multiple channels such as 7.1 or 5.2.4 in a typical system can/may have significant level variations as measured @ the listening position for the proper, balanced soundstage. Also for certain sound tracks the listener depending upon the movie's' effects and/or personal taste, may want to bring up the surrounds or center which is easily done by the trim controls...

Just my $0.02...

 

[GrimSurfer]

Why would one make a fine adjustment up or down to simplified gain. followed by an opposing volume correction.

This isn't an aircraft that you're trimming for a low level bombing run. It isn't a hands on device either. You set balance and leave it. Then adjust volume for gain.

Doing otherwise is messing with the intent of the originator's intent. Strange... I thought we were all chasing the same mythical end: straight wire with gain.

 

[Leemix]

The sound guys dont always do it right so its often handy to be able to go a little up or down in the center channel (or surrounds).
If the sound mix on quite a few movies and tv shows are what they are by intent those responsible sure are cruel ppl.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[M Code]

Why would one make a fine adjustment up or down to simplified gain. followed by an opposing volume correction.

This isn't an aircraft that you're trimming for a low level bombing run. It isn't a hands on device either. You set balance and leave it. Then adjust volume for gain.

Doing otherwise is messing with the intent of the originator's intent. Strange... I thought we were all chasing the same mythical end: straight wire with gain.

Because each cinema release is mixed differently, though for the majority of them maybe no tweak is required but depending upon its age and/or personal expectations a tweak may be required.. Bring the subwoofer down a notch, or increase the center channel for higher dialogue...

Just my $0.02...

 

[GrimSurfer]

Because each cinema release is mixed differently, though for the majority of them maybe no tweak is required but depending upon its age and/or personal expectations a tweak may be required.. Bring the subwoofer down a notch, or increase the center channel for higher dialogue...

Just my $0.02...

I'm into SQ more than most and perhaps even a little anal-rententive, but adjusting settings other than volume on a track-by-track or movie-by-movie basis would irritate the $hit out of me. But hey, that's just me.

YMMV, as they say, but it's worth considering that some of need for these kinds of adjustment could be the result of too much bass, too little midrange etc. This can occur when room correction software gets things slightly wrong or owners play with new gear. (The 2.x music equivalent to this is bass heavy bias after getting that new sub one's been lusting over.)

This doesn't discount source material being off, but the movie industry usually gets this right more often than the music industry. (Even though I'm a 2.x channel music loving guy, I have to admit that there's a lot of really poorly mixed and mastered music out there.).

Movies cost a bazillion dollars to produce these days, so hiring a really good audio engineer is a rounding error.

 

[Old Onkyo]

I'm into SQ more than most and perhaps even a little anal-rententive, but adjusting settings other than volume on a track-by-track or movie-by-movie basis would irritate the $hit out of me. But hey, that's just me.

YMMV, as they say, but it's worth considering that some of need for these kinds of adjustment could be the result of too much bass, too little midrange etc. This can occur when room correction software gets things slightly wrong or owners play with new gear. (The 2.x music equivalent to this is bass heavy bias after getting that new sub one's been lusting over.)

This doesn't discount source material being off, but the movie industry usually gets this right more often than the music industry. (Even though I'm a 2.x channel music loving guy, I have to admit that there's a lot of really poorly mixed and mastered music out there.).

Movies cost a bazillion dollars to produce these days, so hiring a really good audio engineer is a rounding error.

My aim is to set it and forget it. I know a part of that is learning the basics, my equipment, and the advances in technology over the past 15 years.

 

[ski2xblack]

Doing otherwise is messing with the intent of the originator's intent

I think you're wandering into what Toole refers to as the "circle of confusion" concerning the artist's intent.

The trims are for system calibration and generally are 'set and forget'.

 

[GrimSurfer]

I think you're wandering into what Toole refers to as the "circle of confusion" concerning the artist's intent.

The trims are for system calibration and generally are 'set and forget'.

LOL. Possibly, but the "circle of second guessing" is at the other end or the ADD spectrum.

 

[M Code]

I'm into SQ more than most and perhaps even a little anal-rententive, but adjusting settings other than volume on a track-by-track or movie-by-movie basis would irritate the $hit out of me. But hey, that's just me.

YMMV, as they say, but it's worth considering that some of need for these kinds of adjustment could be the result of too much bass, too little midrange etc. This can occur when room correction software gets things slightly wrong or owners play with new gear. (The 2.x music equivalent to this is bass heavy bias after getting that new sub one's been lusting over.)

This doesn't discount source material being off, but the movie industry usually gets this right more often than the music industry. (Even though I'm a 2.x channel music loving guy, I have to admit that there's a lot of really poorly mixed and mastered music out there.).

Movies cost a bazillion dollars to produce these days, so hiring a really good audio engineer is a rounding error.

As I mentioned minor adjustments are not required for each movie but sometimes a tweak may be required.. Once the soundstage is properly balanced, the trim controls are for fine tuning and occasional tweaks. Just like trim controls for a sailboat or suspension of a road-race car or wing adjustment of a Nascar competitor....

Just my $0.02...