Toshiba’s New BD Attack Vector: Modify DVD for HD Content

A

admin

Audioholics Robot
Staff member
When Toshiba ceded the format war back in February, one thing they made clear was that they did not plan to make Blu-ray players and that they would pursue other technologies such as NAND flash memory and next generation CPUs to push HD adoption, and that they were determined to continue developing the DVD format. Many figured that the company either would focus on digital distribution of HD media or ultimately would join the Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) to avoid falling behind in the presumed future of consumer electronics.

Little did anyone suspect such direct foreshadowing.



Discuss "Toshiba’s New BD Attack Vector: Modify DVD for HD Content" here. Read the article.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
Toshiba's new approach will fail, it will confuse customers much more than they already are. People are finally starting to catch on to Blu-ray (at least as a household name) and becoming interested in the format.
 
P

PhilCohen

Audioholic
...and Toshiba thinks that they're going to get software support from the movie studios? They're dreaming.
 
Nomo

Nomo

Audioholic Samurai
Sounds like Toshiba has a major case of sour grapes.
I'm not quite on board with BD yet, but I don't see adding more confusion to the mix as being a benefit to anyone.
 
F

fredk

Audioholic General
If iI understand this correctly Toshiba is aiming for a disk that can play as both a standard DVD and an HD-DVD depending on what player you have.

If creating such disks dons't have much of a cost penalty, studios may just buy in. It ain't over till it over??

Fred
 
P

PhilCohen

Audioholic
what does that mean?
The movie industry felt it essential to withdraw support from HD-DVD to end the format war,so that there would only be one high definition disc format. The movie industry,therefore will not welcome(or support) Toshiba's attempt to launch yet another high definition disc format. And after Toshiba screwed one million consumers by pulling the plug on HD-DVD, the public won't trust Toshiba, if they try to introduce a successor to HD-DVD.
 
H

Hutzal

Audioholic Intern
I like the fact that they are researching media storage instead of disks. I can see flash Memory being a very big part of future media. Instead of buying a disk, buy a flash SD card with the movie stored on the flash card. Its really small and does not take up alot of space. The only issue with this is the cost of current flash memory, i know my 16GB SDHC card cost $80, but if they cost were to be <$15 in the future, I would buy all my media on these flash cards. Sounds like a great way to get away from the issues of dealing with moving parts (like a laser and disk drive). Soon player of the future will have no moving parts using Flash memory for storage of movies. I would buy into that no problem.
 
bandphan

bandphan

Banned
The movie industry felt it essential to withdraw support from HD-DVD to end the format war,so that there would only be one high definition disc format. The movie industry,therefore will not welcome(or support) Toshiba's attempt to launch yet another high definition disc format. And after Toshiba screwed one million consumers by pulling the plug on HD-DVD, the public won't trust Toshiba, if they try to introduce a successor to HD-DVD.
oh, i didnt get that out of the articles
 
DavidW

DavidW

Audioholics Contributing Writer
Based on the various forum response, it seems that many are mistaking Toshiba's ploy as introducing another format.

I think a more likely reading of the strategy is that they are just going to make the DVD standard more capabable of storing HD content without causing any effect to existing DVD players.

Everyone gets all wrapped up in the idea of formats, CD, DVD, BD, HD-DVD, but on a fundamental level, all these formats are simply data storage on a medium based on optical methods with slight variations and improvements to the underlying technology with the introduction of each new format. The discs do not care what type of data is stored on them. There is no reason that with the appropriate codec applied to the data that HD video could not be stored on a CD, it would just take a lot of them and changing discs every five minutes would be annoying.

The strategy is a complete endround on the idea of introducing a new format to compete with Blu-ray, they are simply going to slip in the capability to run HD video into the established format that everyone already owns. No one needs a new player to play the discs at SD, but if a consumer wants HD rather than SD, that is when the new players come in.

All that would remain is to get studios to allow HD content on these upgraded DVDs.

It may work, it may not, but either way it is not the direct clash of formats that made HD-DVD/BD a war.
 
J

JackT

Audioholic
I like the part where he talks about Toshiba's new technology taking advantage of BD player "price stagnation." That's just silly.
 
K

Krobar

Enthusiast
Based on the various forum response, it seems that many are mistaking Toshiba's ploy as introducing another format.

I think a more likely reading of the strategy is that they are just going to make the DVD standard more capabable of storing HD content without causing any effect to existing DVD players.

Everyone gets all wrapped up in the idea of formats, CD, DVD, BD, HD-DVD, but on a fundamental level, all these formats are simply data storage on a medium based on optical methods with slight variations and improvements to the underlying technology with the introduction of each new format. The discs do not care what type of data is stored on them. There is no reason that with the appropriate codec applied to the data that HD video could not be stored on a CD, it would just take a lot of them and changing discs every five minutes would be annoying.

The strategy is a complete endround on the idea of introducing a new format to compete with Blu-ray, they are simply going to slip in the capability to run HD video into the established format that everyone already owns. No one needs a new player to play the discs at SD, but if a consumer wants HD rather than SD, that is when the new players come in.

All that would remain is to get studios to allow HD content on these upgraded DVDs.

It may work, it may not, but either way it is not the direct clash of formats that made HD-DVD/BD a war.
I dont understand why this technique is any different to the "Twin" format used by some anime HDDVDs. This allowed a DVD-9 and HDDVD-15 to exist on the same side of a disc.
 
Pyrrho

Pyrrho

Audioholic Ninja
Well, since I am waiting for Oppo to release a Blu-Ray player, and that probably won't be for about a year or so, I will wait and see if Toshiba releases anything interesting by then. If they do a good enough job of it, they might persuade me to forgo Blu-Ray. And if not, that is fine, as I am planning on buying a Blu-Ray player, so if they fail to come up with anything worth getting, I will be no worse off than I am now.

This is certainly intriguing:

http://www.audioholics.com/education/display-formats-technology/toshiba-cell-broadband-video-processor

Even if they don't come out with a Blu-Ray killer, something that can dramatically improve the look of DVDs would be quite welcome. Maybe they will come out with an Oppo and high end Denon DVD player killer.
 
Soundman

Soundman

Audioholic Field Marshall
Price

This can only be a good thing. Competition makes prices go down, and that is the problem with BD.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
Based on the various forum response, it seems that many are mistaking Toshiba's ploy as introducing another format.

I think a more likely reading of the strategy is that they are just going to make the DVD standard more capabable of storing HD content without causing any effect to existing DVD players.

Everyone gets all wrapped up in the idea of formats, CD, DVD, BD, HD-DVD, but on a fundamental level, all these formats are simply data storage on a medium based on optical methods with slight variations and improvements to the underlying technology with the introduction of each new format. The discs do not care what type of data is stored on them. There is no reason that with the appropriate codec applied to the data that HD video could not be stored on a CD, it would just take a lot of them and changing discs every five minutes would be annoying.

The strategy is a complete endround on the idea of introducing a new format to compete with Blu-ray, they are simply going to slip in the capability to run HD video into the established format that everyone already owns. No one needs a new player to play the discs at SD, but if a consumer wants HD rather than SD, that is when the new players come in.

All that would remain is to get studios to allow HD content on these upgraded DVDs.

It may work, it may not, but either way it is not the direct clash of formats that made HD-DVD/BD a war.
This isn't quite correct, but is close.

There are two different technologies that Toshiba is working on...

1. LSi - This is the new type of DVD that is backwards compatible with existing DVDs, but increases the number of available layers by two and allows for quad layer, and (I believe) double sided discs which can be utlized by new LSi capable DVD players.

2. SRT - Super Resolution Technology, is a processing technique that uses nine frames (or fields?) to interpolate missing data within a single frame. The current Silicon Optix processors, which are near the best, use 5 field interpolation for processing, so this basically doubles the comparing fields to improve upon DVD quality, to levels that they are claiming to be 960p or near to the quality of true 1080p.

The first technology is another SACD or DVD-A level product. They have to convince all studios to discontinue standard DVD replication of a new, and likely more expenisve, manufacturing process, then replace all standard DVDs with LSi versions which will be compatible, but show zero improvement for all non LSi compliant DVD players. As of today, that's 100% of the DVD players on the market.

You can expect these movies to be a bit more expensive for consumers, and the content creation to be a bit more for the studios, yet the final result for most is zero improvement at all, and profits to not rise for studios because of these actions.

The second technology sounds great as an upconversion process, but claims that it will 'revolutionize' upconversion and reinvigorate the DVD market are very much putting the cart in front of the horse. As of yet, Toshiba has not delivered a player for product testing to any organization, and their demos seem to consist of pre-fab content for effect in demos, instead of actual DVDs. How it compares to existing decent DVD players, like those from Oppo, is entirely untested, and deserves serious scrutiny as it's the manufacturer making the claims.

I'm all for SRT and great upconversion for my 300+ DVD collection.

A new DVD technology that costs consumers more? Thanks anyway, my next new disc player will be Blu-ray in True HD, with all the video, audio, and interactivity I could ask for at this time. I'll not take a step backwards to 1996.
 
B

Bluesmoke

Audioholic Chief
ffff



The execs at Toshiba should really play this game.

Seriously, have they done anything of significance in the Consumer Electronics industry in the past 5-6 years?

HD DVD = Dead
SED = Dead

Their electronics have some of the highest defective rates among the major manufacturers.

This entire thing just sounds like sour grapes.
 
BMXTRIX

BMXTRIX

Audioholic Warlord
HD DVD = Dead
SED = Dead

Their electronics have some of the highest defective rates among the major manufacturers.

This entire thing just sounds like sour grapes.[/QUOTE]
Before it was more officially called SRT it was referred to as Super UpConverstion (SUC)...

Great video about SUC:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMoFQI5TTzY[/url]
 
ivseenbetter

ivseenbetter

Senior Audioholic
This is a great thing. I really hope it works out. I think it could elliminate the HD confusion. You buy a movie...if you have an HD player you get HD content...if you don't have an HD player you get SD content. Seems pretty simple to me. Blu-ray has been a huge dissappointment. When the best Blu-ray player on the market is a video game console it really seems ridiculous that it somehow won out.
 

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