Too Much Sub?

[slipperybidness]

I see a lot on here about matching subs to the room, but mostly it's all about a sub large enough to pressurize a large room.

My question is, how about a large sub in a smaller room. Will it sound good, just dial the volume down on it?

In particular, I'm looking at the HSU VTF-15H Subwoofer for a room that is about 10ftx15ftx8ft. I realize that is probably 'too much sub' for such a small space. But, I'm thinking more long-term and could see moving it to a larger room a few years down the line. My thinking is that I could probably stretch my budget to the HSU 15 now and not have to upgrade again later down the road. If I got a sub to match my current room size, then I may find I need more within a couple years.

What's the general belief on this? Bigger is always better on the sub and get the best I can afford? Or match it to the room and go from there?

 

[jjackkrash]

There's almost no such thing as "too much sub," IMO, because once you level match the sub it will simply give you more headroom and work with less effort, even if you don't max out its capabilities. Get the best sub(s) you can afford that will physically fit in the space and you won't regret it.

 

[slipperybidness]

There's almost no such thing as "too much sub," IMO, because once you level match the sub it will simply give you more headroom and work with less effort, even if you don't max out its capabilities. Get the best sub(s) you can afford that will physically fit in the space and you won't regret it.

Yeah, that's about what I figured. Now about that fitting in the space part That HSU is a beast. Plus I have to wrestle it upstairs

 

[Nuance AH]

There's almost no such thing as "too much sub," IMO, because once you level match the sub it will simply give you more headroom and work with less effort, even if you don't max out its capabilities. Get the best sub(s) you can afford that will physically fit in the space and you won't regret it.

This is eaxctly what I was going to say. A big 'ol +1 from me.

 

[timoteo]

The VTF-15H will sound fantastic in that room!!

I have mine in a 13.5'x19.5'x8' room that is open to other areas & still sounds incredible. The great thing about the 15H is that it has 5 different operating modes (both ported & sealed options). So if you find you need to tone it down you can run it sealed. The headroom & low distortion levels will give you nice clean bass. Ive said it before, i believe the VTF-15H is the best <$1000 sub on the market (besides DIY).

Make sure whatever sub you get, you do the "bass crawl" to find the best spot to place the sub. Then with trial/error go through the different modes to see which blends the best.

I dont see where you live but if you are near SoCal then HSU is in Anaheim & they have a good demo room.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Big subs are better. Lower distortion at a given volume level without a sonic penalty. The visual penalty is another issue. Too much is just right. Other than looks the only downside I can think of is that sub placement is critical, and a large box can limit your placement options. The HSU is about the same size as my sub, and it definitely doesn't hide in the room.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

I'd rather have two smaller ones than one large one. Much easier to flatten the room response and allow for better bass response in a wider area. Single subs in rooms can work great, but generally are limited to placing for a sweet spot and people outside of that can get some wacky response. Again, depends on the room.

 

[ski2xblack]

Too much is just enough, and once you have enough, have another

Bad advice for alcoholics. Sage advice for audioholics regarding subs.

I second Midnight's recommendation for multiples, it will help smooth out any room quite a bit.

 

[DS-21]

This is eaxctly what I was going to say. A big 'ol +1 from me.

I'm going to sound a small note of dissent. Two reasons:

(1) Placement is more important in a small room than raw capability. A larger sub limits placement flexibility, so one might not get optimal performance.

(2) A sub designed to play low in a large room - especially a vented one - will often result in a bottom-heavy frequency response in a small room. So to get the best out of it, one need separate EQ.

I'd rather have two smaller ones than one large one. Much easier to flatten the room response and allow for better bass response in a wider area.***

Now that gets
"A big 'ol +1"
from me.

But three is even better than two, especially if you can place one high off the ground (atop a bookshelf, say), and four could be better than three. The diminishing returns curve kicks in steeply at 3 or 4. Keep in mind also they need not be identical. One could use one big sub, and two much smaller subs.

 

[walter duque]

That's why I use 4 subs.

 

[Nuance AH]

I'm going to sound a small note of dissent. Two reasons:

(1) Placement is more important in a small room than raw capability. A larger sub limits placement flexibility, so one might not get optimal performance.

Yes, room placement is more important, I agree. I disagree that a larger size limits optimal performance, though. It's more like the wife limits optimal placement which in turn limits optimal performance.

(2) A sub designed to play low in a large room - especially a vented one - will often result in a bottom-heavy frequency response in a small room. So to get the best out of it, one need separate EQ.

Yeah, I know; you're preaching to the choir. He asked about one sub, not two, else I would have said that instead. I'd recommend multiple subs every time if everyone could accommodate it. Two Rythmik F12's, FV12's or SVS SB or PB12-NSD's would rock that room. With that said, he asked about one sub, so...

 

[gaby95]

I love my vtf-15h so of course I recommend it as well as the often ignored Acoustic Treatments.

 

[DS-21]

Two Rythmik F12's, FV12's

There are much better subs that the Rythmiks, which are excessively bandwidth-limited (on top) by the basically pointless servo system.

Also, Brian Ding is an insufferable flake. When confronted with a performance problem with one of his subs, he's apt to suggest the user "upgrade" the wire stringing the sub to processor.

 

[Nuance AH]

There are much better subs that the Rythmiks, which are excessively bandwidth-limited (on top) by the basically pointless servo system.

Also, Brian Ding is an insufferable flake. When confronted with a performance problem with one of his subs, he's apt to suggest the user "upgrade" the wire stringing the sub to processor.

Their measured performance cannot be ignored. Look at Ricci's measurements for the FV15HP. It sounds like you have an issue with Brian which is clouding your judgement. Do you have anything positive to add to this thread, or is following posters around and attempting to argue with them good enough for you?

 

[DS-21]

Their measured performance cannot be ignored. Look at Ricci's measurements for the FV15HP.

Let's.

Garbage, utter garbage.

A sub that starts rolling off at ~60Hz just isn't good enough for a high-fidelity system. It's a boom box, that's all.

Note that the crossover setting was "120Hz" for those measurements. Which is just plain dishonest.

 

[Nuance AH]

Let's.


Garbage, utter garbage.

A sub that starts rolling off at ~60Hz just isn't good enough for a high-fidelity system. It's a boom box, that's all.

Note that the crossover setting was "120Hz" for those measurements. Which is just plain dishonest.

Did you read the entire article which explains why? I think you've got a vendetta against Rythmik and are acting like a complete fool. I wouldn't listen to anything DS-21 says folks, not concerning subwoofers. He's trolling Rythmik.

This is from the AH review:

"Discussion of Measurements
What is noteworthy about this sub, is that the second order distortion components at the three lowest test frequencies, are extremely low. Usually, 2nd order distortion components are those which are the most prevalent, and arguably the least objectionable. Removing them creates the largest measurable reduction in THD (in almost all circumstances) yet second order is the least objectionable of all the harmonics, hence the CEA tolerance of it is in excess of the tolerance for any other components. (Music is, mostly harmonics after all.) Second order distortion at 20, 25 and 32 Hz were so low in fact that with the normal 1/12th octave smoothing, the second harmonic is no where to be found in the spectrum curves. It appears that this is where the servo-feedback excels and Rythmik's claims of low distortion are validated.

The differences in outputs between 40, 50 and 63 Hz should be considered so small as to be negligible. Any decrease from one frequency to the other is likely caused by a small amount of VC heating, such that if I had tested from higher to lower frequency, these three numbers would likely have been reversed. In fact, the repeatability of these numbers should be considered no greater than within 1db. While I am listing them to three significant figures, we need to remember that precision is not accuracy, and that any other speaker within a db of these numbers is likely to be close enough that we will not be able to reliably or consistently hear a difference."

Yeah...utter garbage? I can think of something else that is utter garbage, but it isn't this subwoofer.

 

[ack_bak]

To each his own. I tried two lesser subs in my room (granted it is much larger than the OP's) and I just could not get the extension I was looking for. Once I replaced an eD A2-300 with a VTF-15H, it was a night and day improvement.

I say go with the best subwoofer you can afford and hen add a second ne down the road if you feel the need.

 

[MidnightSensi2]

That's why I use 4 subs.

Four is actually ideal. Floyd Toole, who I guess is some hotshot in acoustics hehe, at least I found his papers interesting and got real results from reading them, found that two got you 90% of the way and four got you about as good as it could get. Most cases, the four subwoofers were placed in the center of each wall.

Over four subwoofers, you want to move to 8, which you'd stack to get an extra +3dB from arraying. But that would only be worthwhile if your room was so big it needed the output, it wouldn't help the response.

Fact of the matter is, most high-end home theaters have such weak mains compared to their subwoofers that output isn't the weak link. Hence, why I tell people to look at stuff like JTR's, Danleys and Seatons, for home theater because they can actually provide that 'punch' people want but haven't figured out comes from about 500Hz hehe, which some little tower aint gunna handle. Instead, they put giant subwoofer(s), run them way too hot over their mains, and the result is muddy.

When people ask me how to get more 'punch' from their bass, generally I tell them to turn their subwoofer down and their receiver up. They are amazed. Want some extra growl, go +3dB on the sub...which is borderline. Want some punch, get some massive mains that can do the lower midrange crunch that makes explosions feel like gunshots to your chest.

 

[zhimbo]

Would that I could have such garbage!

It's approx. 1 dB down at 80hz. Gasp! It may not be suitable for use with small satellite speakers, but I don't think that's the target audience.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I say go with the best subwoofer you can afford and hen add a second ne down the road if you feel the need.

This is exactly what I did. And I've flip-flopped around in my opinion of whether I'd rather have multiple smaller subs or a big one (or two, if necessary). This week I'm on a I'm-glad-I-got-the-big-sub kick. In my case the one big sub worked out, but all I can say is that I'm glad I have a spouse who likes the audio system as much as I do, because the DD18+ is the first thing most people ask about, as in: "What is that?"