Time to downgrade Onkyo receivers to Junk status?

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Junk status?

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy you!

I consider all Denon from eCost & Dakmart Junk Status.

I bought 4 (or was that 5) Denon from eCost, and they were all junk.

When I called Denon to complain, they said Dakmart is even worse.

 

[templemaners]

Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy you!

I consider all Denon from eCost & Dakmart Junk Status.

When I called Denon to complain, they said Dakmart is even worse.

I'm a Dakmart customer, and I approved this message. I don't think I'll give them anymore business - next time I want a refurb Denon, I'll go to A4L.

Though, I will say, after I got my 4311 back, I haven't had any issues with it, and the 589 I bought from Dakmart for my home office is still chugging along strong. Also, my parent's 890 I bought for them still works great too (purchased from eCost).

I just need to man up and buy new from now on.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm a Dakmart customer, and I approved this message. I don't think I'll give them anymore business - next time I want a refurb Denon, I'll go to A4L.

Though, I will say, after I got my 4311 back, I haven't had any issues with it, and the 589 I bought from Dakmart for my home office is still chugging along strong. Also, my parent's 890 I bought for them still works great too (purchased from eCost).

I just need to man up and buy new from now on.

I have post traumatic syndrome from buying used AVR.

I will never buy another used one.

 

[sholling]

The issue is, did the unit blow up in the same way again. Onkyo's problem is that there are credible reports of their receivers being fixed multiple times for the same problem, which indicates design problems and not bad luck.

As someone from a manufacturing background that's only one possibility - especially when you take into account how rarely that happens. Far more likely is a batch of bad boards from a vendor making their way into production and the repair channel at the same time. That happens just like the bad caps in one batch of emo subwoofers. There was simply no way to know there were bad units until they'd been run hard and put away wet a few hundred times. That makes sense because the reports don't seem to be every model and every year or persistent. Speaking in general and not about Onkyo when a new product is released the same 1st batch of parts are likely to go into thousands of one line of product and the repair channel. That would explain someone getting 2 bad units from the same lot out of the same warehouse. If it were a design issue it would be a persistent problem that effected 10 or even 20% of a given model line and year, not some fraction of 1%. I'll tell you a story... I once worked for a not to be named company who's product left more than a few customers trapped in their bathrooms. It wasn't a faulty design, it was a darn good design that's been successful for 60 years. It was one bad batch of components that made their way into one small production run and a few cases got out before someone realized there was problem. Embarrassing? OMG yes! Expensive to make right with the customers? Yes! Bad design? No. It's very possible that this same sort of issue showed up in some batches of a limited number of models.

We also don't know what conditions they were used in. For example my 707 was in an enclosed cabinet but the cabinet had temperature controlled fans that kicked on at 85 degrees. There might have someone stacking their 20 year Playboy collection on their receiver, or allowing a huge buildup of dust inside - we just don't know. I know I've seen computers with 1/16th inch or more of thick dust coating the boards. We just don't know.

Now frankly I don't know if their designs are p-poor (they may be) just that my four work - including two refurbs, and there seem to be a whole lot of happy customers. At this point I think we're all just working on a gold metal in the jumping to conclusions Olympics. What we're doing is like reading on the internet that members of a certain protest movement are a bit unhinged and have bad body odor from lack of bathing and deciding that they're all hydrophobic from rabies. They may be but we don't have enough information to draw that conclusion.

Now if you want to conclude that they need to spend more on torture/destructive testing of samples of component batches and finished products I won't disagree. We just have to decide if it's worth the price increase vs being one of the (grabbing a number out of the air) .5% that need a repair or the (grabbing another number) .1% that need to send it back again.

 

[sholling]

I'm a Dakmart customer, and I approved this message. I don't think I'll give them anymore business - next time I want a refurb Denon, I'll go to A4L.

Do we know whether or not if they are refurbished at the same facility?

 

[tonedeaf]

I own an onk 807.
Had the same issue everyone else has.
No speaker icons in the display area and no sound.
Called customer service,45 minute hold time,got disconnected once after a 20 minute wait.
Two thoughts on this,1.)Many many having problems.or2)Trying to discourage callers.
Every call is a 45 min. wait!!!!!????
Board has been resoldered and unit is behaving after about 50 to 60 hours of usage.My warranty expires in july of this year.
Unit is in a nice cool area in my rec room at the bottom of the rack.
Top of unit gets warm but not hot,so I don't believe heat is the issue.
Its either a design flaw or bad boards mass produced in China.
Many posts on AVS forum stating they have sent the unit back 2or3times for the same problem.Some report being provided with an 809 as a replacement.
I guess the old adage holds true,you get what you pay for.
Maybe Denon in my future?

 

[sholling]

I own an onk 807.
Had the same issue everyone else has.
No speaker icons in the display area and no sound.
Called customer service,45 minute hold time,got disconnected once after a 20 minute wait.
Two thoughts on this,1.)Many many having problems.or2)Trying to discourage callers.
Every call is a 45 min. wait!!!!!????
Board has been resoldered and unit is behaving after about 50 to 60 hours of usage.My warranty expires in july of this year.
Unit is in a nice cool area in my rec room at the bottom of the rack.
Top of unit gets warm but not hot,so I don't believe heat is the issue.
Its either a design flaw or bad boards mass produced in China.
Many posts on AVS forum stating they have sent the unit back 2or3times for the same problem.Some report being provided with an 809 as a replacement.
I guess the old adage holds true,you get what you pay for.
Maybe Denon in my future?

I'd hang on hold if I thought I could get them to send an 809 it's a nice receiver. If not then get them to fix it and if it breaks again get something else (Denon, Yamaha etc).

 

[ahblaza]

I'd hang on hold if I thought I could get them to send an 809 it's a nice receiver. If not then get them to fix it and if it breaks again get something else (Denon, Yamaha etc).

Hello,
After reading this thread and those on AVS I decided to cancel my preorder on the Onkyo TX-NR809 @ J&R music world, they were out of stock when I called to get their best price and so I preordered it for $655 delivered. I cancelled today and they were willing to give me an even better price if I did not cancel, I explained the HDMI problems to sales person and he told me that they have corrected the previous problems and this new batch would not have the problems as previous run. If the problem goes deeper than the HDMI issues and involves a design flaw how can he make this claim. I am really dissapointed at this time, I even purchased the 809 manual to get familiar with the unit prior to receiving it. Could someone please point me in the direction of a receiver with all of the 809 attributes. My setup is all Ascends speakers, 340SE's LCR and 170's surrounds with an Epik Legend sub. PLEASE help.
Jeff

 

[sholling]

Hello,
After reading this thread and those on AVS I decided to cancel my preorder on the Onkyo TX-NR809 @ J&R music world, they were out of stock when I called to get their best price and so I preordered it for $655 delivered. I cancelled today and they were willing to give me an even better price if I did not cancel, I explained the HDMI problems to sales person and he told me that they have corrected the previous problems and this new batch would not have the problems as previous run. If the problem goes deeper than the HDMI issues and involves a design flaw how can he make this claim. I am really dissapointed at this time, I even purchased the 809 manual to get familiar with the unit prior to receiving it. Could someone please point me in the direction of a receiver with all of the 809 attributes. My setup is all Ascends speakers, 340SE's LCR and 170's surrounds with an Epik Legend sub. PLEASE help.
Jeff

I'm quite happy with my 809, my 606, my 707, and my 906 and if the detractors are correct I have the only 4 functioning Onkyos in the entire world.

I do think that they need to do something to get better air flow and perhaps that's why I don't have issues. Fortunately they have fans now but it's too early to tell if there is a problem with the 2011-2012 x09 models. I still think the whole thing is overblown but anyone that doesn't feel comfortable with Onkyo should vote with their wallet.

 

[ahblaza]

I'm quite happy with my 809, my 606, my 707, and my 906 and if the detractors are correct I have the only 4 functioning Onkyos in the entire world.

I do think that they need to do something to get better air flow and perhaps because that's why I don't have issues. Fortunately they have fans now but it's too early to tell if there is a problem with the 2011-2012 x09 models.

Thanks Sholl, I am not putting onkyo down, I have a 7 year od 702 that has never had an issue and is a work horse powerhouse of a receiver, it draws almost the same current as the 809, 8.1 amps, and is only warm to the touch. I am just feeling sad at this point as I was so looking forward to getting the 809. Where it will be located is well ventilated, I'm not worried about the heat problem. I told the sales rep to hold one for me when they become available at J&R in case I change my mind.
Jeff

 

[tattoo_Dan]

and I have a beautiful running 876,after having onkyo replace the HDMI board under warranty(which was a very nice experience)(2 years ago) and adding 3 fans in my unit,I have enjoyed a fantastic running AVR and I love it !

one can find negative things being said about most things in life.

 

[ahblaza]

and I have a beautiful running 876,after having onkyo replace the HDMI board under warranty(which was a very nice experience)(2 years ago) and adding 3 fans in my unit,I have enjoyed a fantastic running AVR and I love it !

one can find negative things being said about most things in life.

Dan, I almost bought a 876 and procrastinated and lost out on the purchase. Did you install the fans, and were you given a reason for the HDMI board failure? I don't know if there is another receiver out there with the power and features of the 809 that can be had for $650, if there is I would like to know what. What was nice about the experience of having Onkyo replace the board, was it good customer service? I really like my 702 like I said and never had even a slight problem with it, that is really why I want to stick with Onkyo but this board situation really has me nervous, I have not made a receiver purchase in seven years. I have a question, can I use my 702 as a multi-channel amp with a pre-pro driving it?
Jeff

 

[lsiberian]

I'm quite happy with my 809, my 606, my 707, and my 906 and if the detractors are correct I have the only 4 functioning Onkyos in the entire world.

I do think that they need to do something to get better air flow and perhaps that's why I don't have issues. Fortunately they have fans now but it's too early to tell if there is a problem with the 2011-2012 x09 models. I still think the whole thing is overblown but anyone that doesn't feel comfortable with Onkyo should vote with their wallet.

I don't think it's overblown. I think its a side effect of cost cutting. You may not use the full feature set of the receiver and you probably have better airflow.

You get what you pay for.

 

[tattoo_Dan]

Dan, I almost bought a 876 and procrastinated and lost out on the purchase. Did you install the fans, and were you given a reason for the HDMI board failure? I don't know if there is another receiver out there with the power and features of the 809 that can be had for $650, if there is I would like to know what. What was nice about the experience of having Onkyo replace the board, was it good customer service? I really like my 702 like I said and never had even a slight problem with it, that is really why I want to stick with Onkyo but this board situation really has me nervous, I have not made a receiver purchase in seven years. I have a question, can I use my 702 as a multi-channel amp with a pre-pro driving it?
Jeff

yes,after the warranty ran out,I took the top off the 876 and installed some PC cooling fans with their own power supply,they work great and are nice & quiet,I will also say the unit has good air flow around it too.
this unit has been used daily from 4 or more hours a day.

the HDMI board ? they did'nt really say a reason,

and IMO Onkyo CS was good,but the CS at the auth service center was fantastic !
fortunetly I live close enough to drive to the onkyo ASC,so I did,and they paid for shipping back to me.

and I'm can't answer the 702/pre-pro question,

I will say again though,since the board replacement,my 876 has runs flawlessly and yes,I love all the features.

 

[LAB3]

yes,after the warranty ran out,I took the top off the 876 and installed some PC cooling fans with their own power supply,they work great and are nice & quiet,I will also say the unit has good air flow around it too.
this unit has been used daily from 4 or more hours a day.

the HDMI board ? they did'nt really say a reason,

and IMO Onkyo CS was good,but the CS at the auth service center was fantastic !
fortunetly I live close enough to drive to the onkyo ASC,so I did,and they paid for shipping back to me.

and I'm can't answer the 702/pre-pro question,

I will say again though,since the board replacement,my 876 has runs flawlessly and yes,I love all the features.

Good idea on the PC fans and seperate power supply to them. I went cheepo and purchased a 9 buck Walmart 5" plastic fan and have it behind the AVR blowing at the top of it.My flatt screen cabinet has really deep/tall bottom shelf with 6" of open top venting space above my AVR. My son asked why I did not stack the matching Yamaha CD changer on top as there was room and it would look cool. Look cool ...Yes... but Not run cool. I am retired and the flatt screen and AVR are On all day most every day and the evenings when the wife gets home from work. Chick flicks and Glee....

 

[ahblaza]

I don't think it's overblown. I think its a side effect of cost cutting. You may not use the full feature set of the receiver and you probably have better airflow.

You get what you pay for.

Isiberian, that is a valid point, as I can see Sholl is not using the 809's amps, but rather has outboard amplification, does this equate to less heat being generated inside the unit, I'm assuming that heat may be the culprit of HDMI board failure or am I way off in my assuptions. You mention cost cutting, could you ellaborate on that, please excuse my ignorance with the questions asked, I just can not afford to make a decision that I may regret. Thank you.
Jeff

 

[ahblaza]

yes,after the warranty ran out,I took the top off the 876 and installed some PC cooling fans with their own power supply,they work great and are nice & quiet,I will also say the unit has good air flow around it too.
this unit has been used daily from 4 or more hours a day.

the HDMI board ? they did'nt really say a reason,

and IMO Onkyo CS was good,but the CS at the auth service center was fantastic !
fortunetly I live close enough to drive to the onkyo ASC,so I did,and they paid for shipping back to me.

and I'm can't answer the 702/pre-pro question,

I will say again though,since the board replacement,my 876 has runs flawlessly and yes,I love all the features.

Dan, would you mind telling me what fans you used and where I could get them, thanks.
Jeff

 

[tattoo_Dan]

Dan, would you mind telling me what fans you used and where I could get them, thanks.
Jeff

I used one 120mm and one 80mm inside the unit,and one 80mm on the top outside,I get them from here Fry's Electronics | and these Fry's Electronics | and 2 120\6V power supplies like these Amazon.com: Mr. Heater Optional 6Volt Power Adapter for Big Buddy Heater #F276127: Home & Kitchen & http://www.frys.com/product/5818553?site=sr:SEARCH:MAIN_RSLT_PG ,I also have 2 80mm fans blowing across the top of my BR & cable box,just to keep any heat buildup out of the area.all are very quiet.

but these parts are widely available just about everywhere.

 

[ahblaza]

I used one 120mm and one 80mm inside the unit,and one 80mm on the top outside,I get them from here Fry's Electronics | and these Fry's Electronics | and 2 120\6V power supplies like these Amazon.com: Mr. Heater Optional 6Volt Power Adapter for Big Buddy Heater #F276127: Home & Kitchen & FRYS.com | F.C.S. ,I also have 2 80mm fans blowing across the top of my BR & cable box,just to keep any heat buildup out of the area.all are very quiet.

but these parts are widely available just about everywhere.

Thanks Dan much appreciated

 

[sholling]

Isiberian, that is a valid point, as I can see Sholl is not using the 809's amps, but rather has outboard amplification, does this equate to less heat being generated inside the unit, I'm assuming that heat may be the culprit of HDMI board failure or am I way off in my assuptions. You mention cost cutting, could you ellaborate on that, please excuse my ignorance with the questions asked, I just can not afford to make a decision that I may regret. Thank you.
Jeff

Right now I'm just using the rear channel amps and the temp (using an infrared thermometer) is about 110ish. That's with it temporarily sitting on top of my XPA-2. Keep in mind that this years models have a built in fans. THX is the last thing I'd worry about. I don't even consider it a check-off item when shopping. The important thing is that you need to feel 100% comfortable with your purchase and if you have any worries at all then I'd look to Denon or Yamaha. I'd actually been saving for a Denon AVR-4312 but settled for the 809 once I realized that by the time I'd saved enough for the AVR-4312 the future AVR-4314 would be obsolete.

What Onkyo has done that makes me mad is they removed the switched outlet from the back. I used that switched outlet to act as a trigger for the Emotiva amps. In theory you can use the zone-2 12 volt trigger but I haven't figured that out yet and have to get my lazy butt off the recliner to turn them on and off.