Tidal/Spotify on Apple TV 4k box

J

JAB11

Enthusiast
I have an Apple TV box hooked up through my home theater system which includes a Marantz 7013 receiver. I have both Tidal and Spotify accounts and loaded the apps on the Apple TV box through the app store and did the pairing code with my iPhone to activate it. When I want to play Tidal/Spotify through my home theater system, I pull up the apps via my Apple TV box menu, click through and play. But, I have no visibility into the music quality setting of the apps when using the Apple TV box. I can see the music quality settings on my iPhone, but not when using the app interface on the Apple TV box. So I don't know if I'm getting the same music quality setting I see on my iPhone as what I'm listening to via the Apple TV box. Or am I hearing through my home theater system/Apple TV box what my iPhone is set to?
 
T

Trebdp83

Full Audioholic
Which iPhone are you using? Have you used the HEOS app? Or do you Airplay the Tidal/Spotify apps from your iPhone to the Marantz? I'm using an Onkyo, but have found that using Airplay from my iPhone's app to the receiver sends the same audio signal as the receiver's built in Tidal app. Are you subscribed to lossless Tidal? The Apple TV 4K, while sending the same signal in 2-channel and also being capable of Dolby Atmos, has a volume issue. It just plays at a lower volume than when played straight from the receiver or from an iPhone. Unless it is an app that is not supported by the receiver, I always try to use the receiver to stream music. The less components in the chain, the better. While playing music from your Apple TV 4K, press the info button on your Marantz and see what the Apple TV is sending it. I'm not sure if the display will give any information other than PCM. You may try using the Marantz or HEOS apps on your iPhone and check the signal info from there while streaming from the Apple TV.
 
lovinthehd

lovinthehd

Seriously, I have no life.
Generally the streaming services are just using your phone as a remote of sorts, they stream to your avr or streaming box. They list the qualities they stream to on their websites....
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
I’m not sure if Apple TV 4K itself supports Spotify 320Kbps or something lower. I definitely would think Airplay from iPhone or iPad direct to the AVR would be a good way. (Assuming a good WiFi router)
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
When you use Airplay, iPad, iPhone or AppleTV with Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify services it limits bandwidth by compressing the music. The option I like for playing high quality streaming services is Audirvana.

Audirvana opens up a UPnP channel with no music compression. Airplay compresses the audio while UPnP sends the audio to your receiver in the same format it is saved on your computer or the streaming service. So, if you rip CDs on the computer and use Audvirana to deliver them to the receiver it's uncompressed high quality music. Tidal and Qobuz Hi-res music is delivered in it's original format with Audirvana rather than being compressed.

Why pay for Hi-Res music and deliver it to the receiver in a lower quality compressed format? If you don't want to use the computer to control the music but your phone instead - the software also offers an app that controls the computer from your phone/iPad. This way you get the control device of your choice while still delivering uncompressed music to the receiver.

You can find the software here: https://audirvana.com
 
T

Trebdp83

Full Audioholic
Airplay 2 uses lossless compression. Yikes, nobody around here is screaming about Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio. They are also lossless compression formats. I think the fewer links you have in your chain, the better. If your receiver has a built in music app, use it. You can use a Smart phone or tablet as a remote control and the audio information will be available there. Unfortunately, I do not believe Dolby Atmos is supported on Tidal in any receiver app and one will need to use a separate streaming device such as the Amazon Firestick, Apple TV 4K or Nvidia Shield to play it. Play around with it. See what works best for you and have a good time. That is a nice receiver, the Marantz 7013. Check out the Marantz 2016 AVR control or HEOS apps and see if you like using them.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Airplay 2 uses lossless compression. Yikes, nobody around here is screaming about Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio. They are also lossless compression formats. I think the fewer links you have in your chain, the better. If your receiver has a built in music app, use it. You can use a Smart phone or tablet as a remote control and the audio information will be available there. Unfortunately, I do not believe Dolby Atmos is supported on Tidal in any receiver app and one will need to use a separate streaming device such as the Amazon Firestick, Apple TV 4K or Nvidia Shield to play it. Play around with it. See what works best for you and have a good time. That is a nice receiver, the Marantz 7013. Check out the Marantz 2016 AVR control or HEOS apps and see if you like using them.
Wouldn’t the Atmos on Tidal be the Dolby Digital Plus variety at 768Kbps max?
 
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S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
When you use Airplay, iPad, iPhone or AppleTV with Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify services it limits bandwidth by compressing the music. The option I like for playing high quality streaming services is Audirvana.

Audirvana opens up a UPnP channel with no music compression. Airplay compresses the audio while UPnP sends the audio to your receiver in the same format it is saved on your computer or the streaming service. So, if you rip CDs on the computer and use Audvirana to deliver them to the receiver it's uncompressed high quality music. Tidal and Qobuz Hi-res music is delivered in it's original format with Audirvana rather than being compressed.

Why pay for Hi-Res music and deliver it to the receiver in a lower quality compressed format? If you don't want to use the computer to control the music but your phone instead - the software also offers an app that controls the computer from your phone/iPad. This way you get the control device of your choice while still delivering uncompressed music to the receiver.

You can find the software here: https://audirvana.com
Hmm where do you find out the max bandwidth that Airplay version 1 uses? Spotify Premium is only 320Kbps. Possibly Airplay version 1 could do that bitrate?

My Yamaha 2060 from 2016 supports Airplay version 1 not version 2 like the 2019 models. I’m also not clear if using musiccast to Yamaha (uses WiFi) would be better or via my Apple TV 4K or Firestick 4K. Or maybe I need a Nividia Shield for Spotify Premium bitrate 320Kbps. (Have no interest above 320Kbps)
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
Airplay 2 uses lossless compression. Yikes, nobody around here is screaming about Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio. They are also lossless compression formats. I think the fewer links you have in your chain, the better. If your receiver has a built in music app, use it. You can use a Smart phone or tablet as a remote control and the audio information will be available there. Unfortunately, I do not believe Dolby Atmos is supported on Tidal in any receiver app and one will need to use a separate streaming device such as the Amazon Firestick, Apple TV 4K or Nvidia Shield to play it. Play around with it. See what works best for you and have a good time. That is a nice receiver, the Marantz 7013. Check out the Marantz 2016 AVR control or HEOS apps and see if you like using them.
Airplay 2 audio sampling rate is limited. Common 96kHz or 192kHz files are not supported. If you use Qobuz with a phone or an iPad it gives you a warning that Hi-Res files are not supported by Airplay. It automatically downgrades the audio resolution after you acknowledge the prompt. Other services do it automatically without notifying the user.

With audiophiles wanting high quality files from HD Tracks, Qobuz and Tidal it makes sense to use a service that supports them in native formats. I can hear the difference and can't imagine spending 5 figures on an audio system and then using compressed files as the source. What's the point?

As far as streaming movies? The sound quality is poor when you compare it directly to a 4K Blu-ray disk. You can't expect to get really good movie audio from a streaming service.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
Hmm where do you find out the max bandwidth that Airplay version 1 uses? Spotify Premium is only 320Kbps. Possibly Airplay version 1 could do that bitrate?

My Yamaha 2060 from 2016 supports Airplay version 1 not version 2 like the 2019 models. I’m also not clear if using musiccast to Yamaha (uses WiFi) would be better or via my Apple TV 4K or Firestick 4K. Or maybe I need a Nividia Shield for Spotify Premium bitrate 320Kbps. (Have no interest above 320Kbps)
Airplay2 uses Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC). Data density is permitted for up to 120 megabit per second. No matter what format the audio was originally coded in, it is compressed into a so-called lossless audio stream. “Hi-Res” Audio formats used by audiophiles are down-sampled to 16 Bit / 44.1kHz.

Until Apple supports native formats I would prefer to use Audirvana.
I can hear the difference.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Airplay2 uses Apple Lossless Audio Codec (ALAC). Data density is permitted for up to 120 megabit per second. No matter what format the audio was originally coded in, it is compressed into a so-called lossless audio stream. “Hi-Res” Audio formats used by audiophiles are down-sampled to 16 Bit / 44.1kHz.

Until Apple supports native formats I would prefer to use Audirvana.
I can hear the difference.
16/44.1 is a higher bitrate (1,411kbps) than 320kbps MP3 though.

Ok so for Spotify Premium 320kbps MP3, I definitely can still go iPhone or iPad using Airplay version 2 to Apple TV 4K (HDMI 2.0a to my Yamaha AVR).

*Edited post to explain myself.
 
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T

Trebdp83

Full Audioholic
I hear you VMPS. I was actually referring to blu-rays as there is no Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio over streaming devices. The best sounding blu-rays are the multi channel lossless PCM titles. Atmos over streaming is based on lossy DD+. Airplay 2 is fine for some and not for others. You want to get the best audio available to you if you are really invested in it. With so many devices, codecs and compression technologies out there some investigation into them is necessary. So, while Tidal offers 192khz/24bit material, that doesn't mean the device being used for playback will actually play it that way. I'm currently streaming 192kHz/24 bit material from my Yamaha's Tidal app and it is playing in FLAC 44.1 kHz. Now, that only works in Pure Direct Mode. Put it in any other mode and the audio is converted to AAC. Playing it on the Apple TV 4K Tidal app shows 48kHz. Go figure. Oh, and Dolby Atmos from the Tidal app on the Apple TV 4K still requires cranking the volume way up. Thank you for the Audirvana information. I'll have to look into it.
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
So, while Tidal offers 192khz/24bit material, that doesn't mean the device being used for playback will actually play it that way. I'm currently streaming 192kHz/24 bit material from my Yamaha's Tidal app and it is playing in FLAC 44.1 kHz. Now, that only works in Pure Direct Mode. Put it in any other mode and the audio is converted to AAC. Playing it on the Apple TV 4K Tidal app shows 48kHz. Go figure. Oh, and Dolby Atmos from the Tidal app on the Apple TV 4K still requires cranking the volume way up. Thank you for the Audirvana information. I'll have to look into it.
Yes, I'm sure not all receivers support 192kHz but my Denon 4700 receiver does when using Audirvana via the UPnP network connection. If I use Airplay it downgrades the file.

You simply select the Denon 4700 on the network and the music plays thru the Denon at 192kHz. I love using Audirvana with CD ripped on the computer, HD Tracks downloads or Hi-Res Qobuz files. No trickery of compressing the file in the background. :D

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The Denon 4700 shows 192 kHz/24 bit on the screen as the music plays. With Audirvana you see all the file size data on the computer as well. You can also hook up the computer with a USB DAC and then control it with the iPad/iPhone remotely. That's nice if you have an expensive DAC that you like better than the internal Denon DAC.
 
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S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
@VMPS-TIII -Thanks for your explanation.

I edited my post #12 so think I’m good now as far as Spotify Premium.

By the way I’m really happy with Spotify Premium. It keeps me from buying CDs constantly even though it’s not full cd quality. :)
 
T

Trebdp83

Full Audioholic
Look at that GUI! That’s how you do it in 2020 Yamaha! Are they here? Eh, whatever. I’ve been wanting to get a Mac for a long time and this may have just pushed me over the edge. Can you use the HEOS app on the Denon and control the music playback from it? Or can it not see the Mac as a music server?
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Look at that GUI! That’s how you do it in 2020 Yamaha! Are they here? Eh, whatever. I’ve been wanting to get a Mac for a long time and this may have just pushed me over the edge. Can you use the HEOS app on the Denon and control the music playback from it? Or can it not see the Mac as a music server?
I can’t keep up with buying AVRs every year. Have to put my streamers to work or do the MAC thing. LOL :)
 
T

Trebdp83

Full Audioholic
Tell me about it. It’s all about the bargains these days. But, I swear, if the Marantz 7015 had 8K HDMI hookups all the way around, I would be very tempted to get it and also get a TV upgrade. Then I’d be ready for a PS5 and Xbox Series X. The 7015 has 7.1 EXT IN and a universal remote control! It’s ridiculous how high up the food chain you have to go to get those features these days.
 
S

snakeeyes

Audioholic Ninja
Tell me about it. It’s all about the bargains these days. But, I swear, if the Marantz 7015 had 8K HDMI hookups all the way around, I would be very tempted to get it and also get a TV upgrade. Then I’d be ready for a PS5 and Xbox Series X. The 7015 has 7.1 EXT IN and a universal remote control! It’s ridiculous how high up the food chain you have to go to get those features these days.
You can bet the 7016 or whatever the one in 2 years from now is called, will be all 2.1 HDMI.

I went from a 2003 Yamaha RXV3300 to a 2016 RXA2060, so you can see how often I buy an AVR. LOL :)
 
VMPS-TIII

VMPS-TIII

Senior Audioholic
Look at that GUI! That’s how you do it in 2020 Yamaha! Are they here? Eh, whatever. I’ve been wanting to get a Mac for a long time and this may have just pushed me over the edge. Can you use the HEOS app on the Denon and control the music playback from it? Or can it not see the Mac as a music server?
You can use Audirvana with Mac or PC. I don't use HEOS anymore as it has the same issue of degrading 192kHz files. Instead, I use Audirvana for all my streaming.

The one way you can use HEOS at full bandwidth is to insert a USB drive into the front of the Denon with the Hi-Res files on it and use HEOS to tell the Denon receiver to play them. It's a very basic control interface compared to Audirvana so I usually don't use it. Instead, I have my Hi-Res music on the computer and let the beautiful Audirvana interface handle everything.

The cool part of Audirvana is it can search Tidal, Qobuz and your local music files and create Favorites for all these categories that are easy to access.
 

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