This is why I very much dislike "audiophiles"..

[monkish54]

I think this is appropriate,

I posted this on one of their FB pages. XD

 

[avengineer]

One thing you have to realize is, a true Audiophile is so by choice, and he enjoys being an audiophile. His amazing ability to discern minute differences in components that cannot even be measured by any method now known to man pleases him. His quest for audio nirvana is, in his view, a noble one, a worthy if nearly unachievable cause. He must, therefore, be dismissive of science to at least some extent, as being inadequate in its ability to describe the effects components (and that includes wire, connectors, physical mounts, etc.) have on the resulting audio quality.

All of that makes him happy, partly because he feels he is a member of the elite, partly because he has become self-agrandized in his quest and listening abilities, and partly because he can perceive things other mortals cannot.

To those not sharing the calling, all of that rolled together might seem to paint the picture of an elitist jerk. But perhaps the balanced view is, he's just another guy striving for happiness in a world that tends to pull in the other direction.

Is the Audiophile any different from the collector? Regardless of what he collects, cars, coins, art, baseball cards, he's striving for a degree of "perfection" in his collection, he's a member of the elite, and his knowledge supersedes that of his constituents, at least in his area of expertise.

I advance that we let the Audiophile, Collector, and all other potentially obsessive compulsives have their day in the sun. We aren't here to withdraw happiness from our fellow man, even if we don't find our own moves in the same direction. And yes, even if what he believes is total horse hockey. He's not hurting anyone, with the possible exception of himself, with his beliefs. There actually are bigger fish to fry.

I'd rather smile from a distance than actively try to discredit every mythological belief a rabid audiophile may have. Or, even better, show him something that really does make a difference. Add that bit of acoustic fuzz to kill an early reflection. Nudge his listening chair to the real dead center. Calibrate his turntable. Then, share a favorite recording.

In the end, Blue Smoke or not, it's about enjoying the sound. And enjoying good sound should make us all happy.

 

[Adam]

In the end, Blue Smoke or not, it's about enjoying the sound. And enjoying good sound should make us all happy.

Agreed!

I think that people here take issue with folks convincing others of spending a lot of money on fool's gold, though. As for individuals enjoying things themselves, I couldn't agree more. That's what it's all about.

 

[monkish54]

I don't even know how to make this a joke. I think that you're a cool dude, but that phrase isn't cool to me.

FWIW, I believe anything can be funny, it just depends on the exaggeration.

That said, I apologize for offending you, Adam! That was not my intention. I shall request a mod take it down ASAP.

 

[Adam]

FWIW, I believe anything can be funny, it just depends on the exaggeration.

That said, I apologize for offending you, Adam! That was not my intention. I shall request a mod take it down ASAP.

Thanks, man. You didn't offend me. Well, much. I'm just not a fan of humor that involves inflicting pain on other living things.

 

[monkish54]

Thanks, man.

Of course!

You didn't offend me. Well, much.

LOL!

I'm just not a fan of humor that involves inflicting pain on other living things.

I can certainly understand that!

 

[Adam]

I might like audiophiles more if I met one in a ferret outfit.

Oops. That thread got closed.

 

[shadyJ]

responding to what avengineer said:

It seems harmless when you put it that way, but I would say the enterprise of pseudoscience on the whole is harmful and should be discouraged. While I don't care enough to make a personal crusade against this sort of BS, I do think one ought to call it out when they see it, whether it is magic cables or vaccines that induce autism.

 

[monkish54]

To those not sharing the calling, all of that rolled together might seem to paint the picture of an elitist jerk.

I completely understand where you are coming from with your post, and to an extent, I agree.

The thing I have a problem with is not that they are elitist jerks, but that they live in the dark ages of audio and refuse to let go. If that's what they believe, I don't really care, let them be fools. The big issue is that they spread this nonsense and allow it to continue! They held VERY high positions at a few large companies that most of us have heard of...that is scary!

They are responsible for the spread of myths and nonsense and they don't deserve a 'get out of jail free card', IMO.

I take "issue" with anyone who ignores science and speaks like they know the truth. Do I have issue with these two personally? No, of course not, they are nice guys, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be called out.

 

[adwilk]

responding to what avengineer said:

It seems harmless when you put it that way, but I would say the enterprise of pseudoscience on the whole is harmful and should be discouraged. While I don't care enough to make a personal crusade against this sort of BS, I do think one ought to call it out when they see it, whether it is magic cables or vaccines that induce autism.

Ok.. you ruined avengineer's post for me a little bit. Not much, but a little. I do also agree with you to an extent. Most that have reached the elitist golden ear platform have spent many years in the hobby and have decided to look beyond the laws of perception to continue their enjoyment. I don't think I have a problem with that. As long as those laws continue to have reasonable debates surrounding them, it keeps the doors open for "this sort of BS". How much fun would this hobby really be if undisputed, reasonably priced, "holy grail" equipment existed? Part of the fun is trying new things and exploring even the subtlest of changes. As an example- I don't think my dad likes playing golf anymore, but he can't stop trying new equipment. Its a bigger hobby to him now that actually stepping on the links. So?

I think the industry needs those types-

The autism comparison is noted, but I'd be curious how thats a fair comparison??? One is quite serious, the other not so much.

 

[monkish54]

How much fun would this hobby really be if undisputed, reasonably priced, "holy grail" equipment existed?

It would be AMAZING. Plenty of people have KILLER setups and still take part in the hobby. My portion of the audio hobby isn't really listening, it's designing. I haven't designed anything yet, mind you, but I enjoy the creation of loudspeakers and the way they work. That's why I'm here!

One is quite serious, the other not so much.

The way I see it, they are both an example of assuming correlation equals causation! They are also examples of using a correlation as FACT and ignoring the way in which we truly discover fact...science.

 

[adwilk]

It would be AMAZING. Plenty of people have KILLER setups and still take part in the hobby. My portion of the audio hobby isn't really listening, it's designing. I haven't designed anything yet, mind you, but I enjoy the creation of loudspeakers and the way they work. That's why I'm here!

If the perfect system existed, what would you possibly design? You'd be the "lunatic" we're discussing- ignoring the data in front of you to either improve or alter the function.

 

[monkish54]

If the perfect system existed, what would you possibly design? You'd be the "lunatic" we're discussing- ignoring the data in front of you to either improve or alter the function.

Well in loudspeakers there will never be ONE perfect design. If there were, I completely agree with the above. It is conceivable that there be a perfect design for a specific room, or type of room, but not all rooms.

 

[KEW]

How much fun would this hobby really be if undisputed, reasonably priced, "holy grail" equipment existed?

It would be great if the electronics were standardized into top performance for the dollar options.
Then all obsessive audio types could focus on refining loudspeakers which have plenty of room to grow.
IMHO, any Pre, amp, cd player, etc. issue is trivial compared to accurately converting the electronic signals into mechanically induced sound-waves!

 

[brianedm]

No, of course not, they are nice guys, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be called out.

...on the internet I kid, of course. A real call out would be forwarding them the link here so they could defend themselves If you do that I'd give you thanks upon thanks. This is a one sided discussion, for obvious reasons, but no discussion has ever gotten worse by introducing someone from the other side who is passionate about the topic.

 

[monkish54]

...on the internet I kid, of course.

LOL!

A real call out would be forwarding them the link here so they could defend themselves If you do that I'd give you thanks upon thanks.

It truly would give me great joy to allow them to speak on their behalf. Everyone deserves the ability to defend themselves! However, one of the audiophiles is a family member. I don't particularly want him to know I think his outlook hinders progress!

That said, if one wants to debate with either audiophile, I will ask them if they will join, say, AVS, for a little healthy debate!

 

[shadyJ]

The autism comparison is noted, but I'd be curious how thats a fair comparison??? One is quite serious, the other not so much.

The difference is only one of degree, not of kind. I don't expect everyone to be perfectly rational, and I am certainly not one hundred percent rational all of the time, but the fight against irrationality is a worthwhile battle even if it's a lost war.

 

[KEW]

responding to what avengineer said:

It seems harmless when you put it that way, but I would say the enterprise of pseudoscience on the whole is harmful and should be discouraged. While I don't care enough to make a personal crusade against this sort of BS, I do think one ought to call it out when they see it, whether it is magic cables or vaccines that induce autism.

It is not BS at all, it is profit!

 

[Adam]

Well in loudspeakers there will never be ONE perfect design. If there were, I completely agree with the above. It is conceivable that there be a perfect design for a specific room, or type of room, but not all rooms.

Sorry if this was already brought up, but when you discuss the design of an article that's purpose includes bringing enjoyment, you must also add in the subjectivity of the people experiencing it. Even in "utility" products like cars, there are different "perfect" cars for different people (some like performance, some like looks, some like comfort, and so on). In speakers, there's personal preference for sound, for sure, but also for looks, ease of hookup, utility in a room, and so forth. For example, the perfect design of a speaker to my mom would be one that is invisible, doesn't impede any other design element or movement in the room, and connects itself with no cords. Gen that up, furry boy, and you'll be RICH.

I wouldn't want to buy any speaker that is acoustically perfect (for me) if I didn't like other aspects of it. My very first impression of almost all (if not all) speakers is how they look. A lot of times, how they look in pictures online. My mind instantly weeds out speaker after speaker that I don't like the looks of.

This discussion makes me glad that I gave up on perfection long ago. Now, I just need to find a woman who did the same.

 

[ImcLoud]

I don't even know how to make this a joke. I think that you're a cool dude, but that phrase isn't cool to me.

Adam, its easy to make it a joke, there are tons of them....

What do you tell your wife when she has 2 black eyes? nothing you already told her twice...
What's the first thing a woman does when she comes home from the Battered Wives Clinic? The dishes if she knows what's good for her!

They are just jokes nothing to get offended by, We donate to the Joyfullheartfoundation regularly and I love women, and would never lay a hand on my wife, but its just a joke...

I never even knew about battered women, all these years I have been eating them plain... Loosen up, its xmass, if you can't joke about spousal abuse during the holidays whats this world coming to?????

I know first hand it doesn't take much to offend adam, lol, he's a good guy and loves all things living which is cool... I love all things living too, and would never hurt something for the fun of it or sport, now if it has edible meat or a coat that will keep me warm, thats why god made guns....

see we all have our own beliefs, but when we shove them in other peoples faces it can get ugly, lol....

PS, Me and my wife hosted a breast cancer fund raiser in our yard {1400 people showed up, we raised over $50K in a 3 days weekend}, and we had a female comedian perform, and 80 % of her jokes were about breast cancer, its just a joke...


I don't like that people on here have to worry about offending others with harmless jokes, because someone is in a pissy mood or over sensitive, now I know we should be considerate of others feelings, but most things said in fun are just that, in fun, obviously monk didnt mean to offend anyone with his joke, I found it funny.... Man up...

But anyway, not really trying to start a debate here, just felt like stating my feelings on xmass....

Merry xmass, and hopefully I didn't "offend anyone with this post.... If I did I apologize in advance....

PS, nothing against you adam, I like you and consider you a friend on here, but you have to feel bad about making other people feel bad about making a joke, thats kind of the opposite of what a joke is about.... Seriously I mean no offence with this post, just maybe next time you get offended send a pm... Most of us know your stance on hurting living things, and I think most of us don't like to see other living things hurt either, and if he was serious, and showing a picture of him slapping the sh1t out of his wife holding a budweiser than I would agree with you, but it was harmless...