This is why I very much dislike "audiophiles"..

[monkish54]

I had a conversation today with two audiophiles who have worked for MANY high end companies. One is my relative, the other is his friend. We were talking about speakers, what is was like to work at various companies, etc.

When we were talking about speakers the topic of cables came up. They both agreed that the cables make a huge difference (and we should all buy cable lifters ) and they gave me anecdotal evidence to the tune of "I changed cables and my soundstage collapsed!" One of the audiophiles goes on to tell me that cable break-in is important, but he found it was as easy as just leaving the cables their overnight! (WOW! I can't believe the factory didn't leave the cables anywhere after they were finished creating them...) I asked "If you came back and heard it the next day, how do you know it sounded different; our acoustic memory lasts about 3-5 seconds?" To which he replied, "Using acoustic memory is a terrible way to listen. You must build a repertoire of sounds and listen long enough so that you know when something sounds right!"

Later in the evening, both audiophiles told stories of how they can hear 25khz, and how walking into a store with a bunch of old TVs giving off 19khz tones was like nails to a chalkboard.

The best one of all...the MOTHERLOAD of stupidity...I'll give you a second to sit down.

Sitting down yet?

OK, good!

One of the audiophiles said that vinyl is better because it has "unlimited resolution", meaning it can play past 192khz sample rate. I asked why such a large sample rate is important (he want's past 400khz for CDs) knowing that humans can't hear the very high frequencies that they allow to play in the recording. He said we can hear it and went on to explain (and draw me a picture) as to how we can hear it!

His explanation is as follows:

We can hear that high! Let's say we had two instruments and, to make it easier, they are playing two sine waves. One at 11khz and the other at 12khz. The amplifier sees this as a summation of both waves. 11 x 12 is 132khz*, this sound needs to be reproduced because our ears hear 11khz and 12khz with different hairs, which means they hear them separately. If the 132khz sound is not being produced, our ears won't be able to hear the 11khz and 12khz sound independently, and the notes will sound very stretched across the soundstage.

YouTube

I would like to point out that THESE ARE THE PEOPLE WHO DESIGN, BUILD, AND MARKET FOR POPULAR AUDIO COMPANIES. THEY ARE NOT ALONE IN THEIR THINKING!

*He used 42khz to make it easier..but his math was 11khz X 12khz

 

[Swerd]

"A lie travels round the world before the truth pulls on its boots."

I think that is attributed to Mark Twain, but maybe others said it before.

The internet only makes the travel time shorter. And that certainly applies to some audiophiles.

Just how old are these two guys that can hear 25 kHz ?

 

[monkish54]

Just how old are these two guys that can hear 25 kHz ?

Both are past 50.

I'm 19 and my hearing caps at ~19khz.

Well, it caps at 19khz, but I can hear sounds at 132khz as well. Did I mention I can see gama rays and also eat Adder venom and live to tell the tale? Oh, and I don't need air or water.

It's funny how the people who believe this nonsense are always against measuring these phenomenons. How convenient...

 

[craig7]

walking into a store with a bunch of old TVs giving off 19khz tones was like nails to a chalkboard.

that part actually could be true... sometimes i hear old tv's making really high pitched tones that nobody else seems to be able to hear. i had an old 20" crt tv that was junk, i never used it because i could see the screen flickering and it made a really high pitched noise. my mom said the tv looked fine and didnt hear any noise from it. some people have better vision than other and some have better hearing than others and some have both. but 25khz? no, i dont think so

 

[adwilk]

Agreed.. the elitist group of audiophiles can be beyond obnoxious and if you've spent anytime around it, you've likely had similar conversations. But... its also this group that pushes the industry in some cases. We need that group to push the curve so to speak. You find it in every hobby- misguided or not, they are necessary IMO. I "dislike" them too, but overall- glad we have em...

Devils Advocate answer above.

 

[monkish54]

some people have better vision than other and some have better hearing than others and some have both.

Most definitely, I don't disagree at all. That would be foolish.

You are certainly right, that one could be true. However, after all the foolish things they said in the 1 1/2 hours that we were talking, I have a hard time trusting anything they say.

25khz? no, i dont think so

LOL I **** you not, they started to talk about a woman who had such good hearing, she could hear when the lights were on. We've all heard the hum that some lights give off...yeah, those aren't the lights we're talking about right now. They were convinced a system could sound different to her depending on whether lights were on or off.

They decided to "prove" this is possible by asking if I had ever listened to music in the dark and whether it sounded better than when the lights are on...

These guys would make excellent scientists..

 

[jinjuku]

Just get a 22Khz MP3. Have them sit in front of your speakers and play it back (or not) with a flip of the coin. Ten times.

Have them raise a hand when they hear it and watch the fall flat on their faces.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Both are past 50.

I'm 19 and my hearing caps at ~19khz.

Well, it caps at 19khz, but I can hear sounds at 132khz as well. Did I mention I can see gama rays and also eat Adder venom and live to tell the tale? Oh, and I don't need air or water.

It's funny how the people who believe this nonsense are always against measuring these phenomenons. How convenient...

An interesting experiment, which I heard done years ago, is to apply low-pass filters at various knee frequencies and hear the effect on music with what we perceive as a lot of high frequencies. It's amazing how little difference there is when listening to triangles, cymbals and such with a third-order low-pass filter at 14KHz and no filter at all. There is some difference, but not as much as most people would guess.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Just get a 22Khz MP3. Have them sit in front of your speakers and play it back (or not) with a flip of the coin. Ten times.

Have them raise a hand when they hear it and watch the fall flat on their faces.

One should be very cautious with this test if you have small animals in the house, just saying. Modern tweeters can often do 100db at 22KHz, and while you might not hear the result your pet often can.

 

[markw]

Offer to do a simple, informal single blind test for them to prove their hearing prowess using their choice of cables vs. some quality generics.

I'd love to hear their excuses to not do it.

 

[markw]

... but I can hear sounds at 132khz as well. Did I mention I can see gama rays and also eat Adder venom and live to tell the tale? Oh, and I don't need air or water.

So, you're Chuck Norris, eh?

 

[monkish54]

Offer to do a simple, informal single blind test for them to prove their hearing prowess using their choice of cables vs. some quality generics.

I'd love to hear their excuses to not do it.

Oh I would, but blind tests are flawed as well (imagine that...every method to test their claims is poor...huh) they made sure to tell me that when I offered to SBT and DBT many of their claims.

BTs are flawed because you must listen for a very long time. The course of many hours to days.

 

[markw]

Oh I would, but blind tests are flawed as well (imagine that...every method to test their claims is poor...huh) they made sure to tell me that when I offered to SBT and DBT many of their claims.

BTs are flawed because you must listen for a very long time. The course of many hours to days.

It's like the little kid who is so sure there's a monster under his bed that he'll never look under it to see if it's real or not.

 

[KEW]

Later in the evening, both audiophiles told stories of how they can hear 25khz, and how walking into a store with a bunch of old TVs giving off 19khz tones was like nails to a chalkboard.

Not 19kHz, but 15,735 Hz horizontal (NTSC)

Below is a link to HF pitches you can use to test hearing.
Adjust volume for low pitches. Do not crank up for high pitches, there is some question of whether loud spl of frequencies beyond your hearing range can cause damage within your hearing range. Of course it is best to use a decent set of headphones because your PC speakers might roll off at 16kHz.

Mosquito Ringtone

Fringe benefit, you can annoy the hell out of a kid while trying to see if you can hear 17kHz!

 

[avengineer]

They've got arguments that shoot down the validity of double-blind tests. If I recall, they are invalid because the stress of a test that demands a decision impedes perception.

Science is boring, myth is fascinating. Many companies have taken that one to the bank.

If you disprove a myth with science, the mythologist will invent a new myth to invalidate your science.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

There are a lot of those brains out there. Age and experience means nothing.

 

[Adam]

Just get a 22Khz MP3. Have them sit in front of your speakers and play it back (or not) with a flip of the coin.

I thought of something similar this morning, but not nearly as scientific or friendly. I figured just crank something in the 21-25kHz range whenever they come over. If they aren't bothered, then they're wrong. If they are, then...well...you won't have to argue with them for very long. It's the principle behind those Mosquito anti-loitering systems, after all.

But, as has been pointed out, don't do that if you have animals around. You can upset a couple of audiophiles in many ways, so stay animal-friendly.

 

[agarwalro]

I think this is appropriate,

 

[96cobra10101]

One should be very cautious with this test if you have small animals in the house, just saying. Modern tweeters can often do 100db at 22KHz, and while you might not hear the result your pet often can.

Unless you have a rodent problem.

 

[ImcLoud]

Wires don't really make a difference that I can hear, I had my music system running with some $5 cable from autozone for a few weeks before I made my cables, and after my cables were done and installed I noiticed no difference, but I just chalked this up to "the cables I made are no better than 18g autozone wire "
I almost spent a few thousand dollars a piece for my cables --- I would have noticed an entire new world of music, where it opened up like Kim Kardashian's legs and I could hear new sounds in material, that I have heard three times a day for my entire adult life... I would be able to hear all the guitar pick noises and every breath that Ozzy took while recording, I would be one of the chosen few enlightened "audiophiles" , and all of you peasants would be jealous.... But then I came to my senses and and realized its all bullsh!t to get the people who have too much money and a tiny penis a way to feel good about themselves, phew that was close...