Thinking About New ~ $1k Sub

[Nick250]

I've owned the PB-10 and the VTF-2, and had them at the same time. The PB-10 won hands down in extension. The VTF-2 simply did not have the same authority at 20Hz that the PB-10 does. IMO, the fact is, the PB-10 costs LESS than the VTF-2.

Having said that, I completely agree that if you are looking for a more significant upgrade, you will need to move to a decent 12" sub.

Indeed, that is the overwhelming consensus. As I mentioned earlier if the 12" is placement friendly I think I can work it out.

Nick

 

[Nick250]

I was going to recommend that. IIRC it's a 21" cube, but in a 450sq foot room, with average of 8' ceilings, that's a huge 3600 square feet to fill. 2x UFW-10 or UFW-12 would be very nice. Or 2x HSU VTF-3 (I have 1 of these - digs to 16-18Hz with authority), or the upcoming HO with the turbo add-on. Or 1 or 2 VTF-3s with turbo attachment upgrades later.

Ah, so my question about a single VTF-3 overpowering the room is already answered.

Being able to place the sub close to the LP, like behind the couch or to the side, would help give the maximum impact, especially if you are only going with one sub. Whatever sub you get, the biggest factor in how good it will perform is the room and where it's placed within the room.

A this point after reading a gazzilion posts here and at AV Forum on subs the VTF-3 seems to be the over whelming choice for doing it all. The sumation being it digs deep for lfe, while articulating subtle musical passages with grace and clarity. It seems to trump SVS's competing offering (subject to personal preference of course). Leaving the Rocket UFW 12 as a possible candidate with the Deff Tech Super Cubes as a possible wild card.

If I place it behind the couch, and cross over it at 80Hz I should be ok with sound location from music. Yes?

I should be placing an oder in a day or two. Thanks for all the help from everyone. I will let you know which way I go the moment I put down the phone from placing the order.

Regards, Nick

 

[kgb540]

I see you apparently dismissed the Earthquake suggestion completely. I have owned essentially all the subs mentioned in this post (except the UFW-12) and the EQ surpasses them all in both SQ and output. Oh well, good luck with the HSU, it is a nice sub.

 

[j_garcia]

It seems to trump SVS's competing offering (subject to personal preference of course). Leaving the Rocket UFW 12 as a possible candidate with the Deff Tech Super Cubes as a possible wild card.

I would not say it trumps SVS, the issue being that the PB-12 is much larger, otherwise I would probably have said go with a PB-12. The PB-10 and VTF-2 were basically equal from ~25Hz up, the only difference really was 20Hz and below. In max extension, the VTF-2 could not hit the lowest notes and clearly struggled in my large room. In max output, it didn't struggle, but obviously had even less extension. The PB-10 couldn't quite fill the room entirely either, yet it still never sounded like it was breaking a sweat either.

 

[Nick250]

The folks at AV123 have muddied the waters some. They have put the UFW-12 on sale at $699 (from $1100 which was over my budget). The site posts frequency response of 20Hz - 220Hz +/- 3 dB in room. I will do my home work on it, but if anyone has any personal experience with it or has comments please chime in.

Regards, Nick

 

[cyberbri]

I believe the lower price is also because it doesn't include the special outboard eq.

 

[Sheep]

Actually, I think you should look into Earthquake.

I remember another poster had one, and was dead set on it being a good sub. Wish I could hear one.

I think you owe it to yourself to at least check it out.

SheepStar

 

[Nick250]

I really appriciate all the responses to this thread while obsess about this purchase. I think I am just about there. Last two contenders. If we were to take price out of the picture (ie if they cost the same) and we compared head to head VTF-3 and Axiom EP-500 which way you would lean. New abbreviated punch list is below.

Flat down to 20Hz
Quite a bit more music than movies
Good tactile response to LFEs (flat to 20Hz is enough, yes?)
2700 cubic feet room
Most location friendly
Build quality

Thanks all

Nick

 

[cyberbri]

I really appriciate all the responses to this thread while obsess about this purchase. I think I am just about there. Last two contenders. If we were to take price out of the picture and we compared head to head VTF-3 and Axiom EP-500 which way you would lean. New abbreviated punch list is below.

Flat down to 20Hz
Quite a bit more music than movies
Good tactile response to LFEs (flat to 20Hz is enough, yes?)
2700 cubic feet room
Most location friendly
Build quality

Thanks all

Nick

Considering the VTF-3 is $700 and the EP500 is $1200 (on their website), I'd go with the VTF-3.

The VTF-3 digs deeper than the EP500, and has a 350w/1400w amp, while the Axiom amp says max watts is 500.


Just judging from that, no contest for me - I'd get the VTF-3, even if the EP500 was the same price.



Actually I have a VTF-3 Mk2 in my 2600sf room, and it performs magnificently. If you really want to get the most out of your sub, though, no sub is all that "location friendly." Bass interacts with your room boundaries the same no matter what subwoofer it is. Experimentation and placement is key, and some inexpensive bass traps can really improve the sound more than upgrading the sub or getting expensive EQ equipment.

 

[Nick250]

Considering the VTF-3 is $700 and the EP500 is $1200 (on their website), I'd go with the VTF-3.

The VTF-3 digs deeper than the EP500, and has a 350w/1400w amp, while the Axiom amp says max watts is 500.

Just judging from that, no contest for me - I'd get the VTF-3, even if the EP500 was the same price.

Actually I have a VTF-3 Mk2 in my 2600sf room, and it performs magnificently. If you really want to get the most out of your sub, though, no sub is all that "location friendly." Bass interacts with your room boundaries the same no matter what subwoofer it is. Experimentation and placement is key, and some inexpensive bass traps can really improve the sound more than upgrading the sub or getting expensive EQ equipment.

cyberbri, you got to the point I was most interested in and that is if they both cost the same, say $800 for example what choice would you make. Since I listen to music mostly I am currently obsessing about is what I might call "musical articulation" for want of a better way to say it. Are the quieter 75Hz passages clear, distinct and musical. If you were going to listen to music only, would you still go with the VTF-3? (assuming the VTF-3 and the EP-500 were the only choices and they cost the same).

FYI I feel like I am being a pain in the butt with this tread but bear with me just a bit more if you can.

Nick

 

[mike c]

I don't know about the HSU amp, but the axiom amp is class D 500w (perhaps that's that they mean by max watts 500w)

I also have a 2700 cu.ft. room, the ep500 is pretty good. (i get 19hz extension btw)
again I'm not familiar with the HSU specs, but the ep500 also has this PEQ of sorts which can alter the 40-50hz region 3 ways ... which are the problem frequencies for many rooms. (or if you simply want more chest thump)

 

[cyberbri]

cyberbri, you got to the point I was most interested in and that is if they both cost the same, say $800 for example what choice would you make. Since I listen to music mostly I am currently obsessing about is what I might call "musical articulation" for want of a better way to say it. Are the quieter 75Hz passages clear, distinct and musical. If you were going to listen to music only, would you still go with the VTF-3? (assuming the VTF-3 and the EP-500 were the only choices and they cost the same).

FYI I feel like I am being a pain in the butt with this tread but bear with me just a bit more if you can.

Nick

If I had the chance, I would buy them both and compare them in my room. I went with the VTF-3 and I am very happy with my decision and do not regreat it a bit. If I had gone with an EP500, UFW-12, PB12-NSD/V, etc., I am sure I would be just as happy with that purchase right now.

I know that probably doesn't help. But I don't think you are going to be disappointed with either, no matter what you get. Unless of course you just plop it down somewhere without calibrating it or tweaking the location.

And although I don't really have the authority to say this yet, since I haven't ordered any bass traps yet (soon!), I would rather get a $700 sub and $300 worth of bass traps, than a $1000 sub and no room treatments.

 

[Nick250]

cyberbi. Good perspective on the big picture i.e. all being great subs and room treatments. Thanks,

Nick

 

[JonnyOzero3]

And although I don't really have the authority to say this yet, since I haven't ordered any bass traps yet (soon!), I would rather get a $700 sub and $300 worth of bass traps, than a $1000 sub and no room treatments.

I agree, except I went with the $1k sub and I'm saving up for the room treatments...hahaha (doh)