The never ending amp journey

[fuzz092888]

I'm trying to finalize my list for amps, and I know this is becoming quite redundant, but I was on audiogon and saw a few amps in my price range. They all seem to have good reviews and was just wondering how they stack up against the suggestions I've already received.

Audiogon:

Rotel RMB-1095 $995

Parasound Halo A-52 $1500

Anthem PVA 7 $1000

Previously suggested:

Outlaw Audio 7500/2200 $1599/$350

Emotiva XPA-5/UPA-1 $899/$349

Theta Digital Intrepid $1495

So far I'm really leaning towards the Theta, but I wanted to know if any of the amps on audiogon are good deals too. Thanks.

 

[Adam]

If I wasn't trying to go lighter versus heavier on my amps (physical weight, I mean), I'd jump on that Rotel. I have a soft spot for that particular amp. $1000 for the silver version is a good price, IMO.

Gosh darn it. Now I'm thinking about buying it. No worries - I won't try to steal it out from under you.

 

[Adam]

I should have mentioned that ParadigmDawg owns (or at least did own) that Rotel model, and he bought it from Warpdrv (only because he saw the classified ad before I did ). Either one could give you more specifics on it and what they thought about it - might be worth PMing them.

 

[fuzz092888]

Thanks Adam, I just PM'ed ParadigmDawg and asked him for some advice.

And thanks for not swiping it before I could get said advice

 

[walter duque]

I would go with the Rotel, it's got 200 watts, while the others have 125 watts. When you start adding power amps you should go with at least 200 watts and up. That's good entry level power.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Kind of hard to pass up on a high-end amp that retailed for $4,375, though. Quality over quantity?

And the Theta just looks soooooooooooooo freaking sexy too.

I might just have to buy one for the heck of it.

 

[walter duque]

Kind of hard to pass up on a high-end amp that retailed for $4,375, though. Quality over quantity?

And the Theta just looks soooooooooooooo freaking sexy too.

I might just have to buy one for the heck of it.

I might have to get a Theta myself, even if I won't use is, just to look at it. I have an old Threshold at my mothers and sometimes I just go there and unpack it just to look at it, my mother thinks I am crazy. She is 81

 

[fuzz092888]

Beware though because the one you will receive, at least from classic audio parts is the black version. Not sure if that makes a difference as to the sexiness.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Beware though because the one you will receive, at least from classic audio parts is the black version. Not sure if that makes a difference as to the sexiness.

I notice that. Still damn sexy in black. Those curves. Wow. I'm thinking like Walter. Trying to imagine how I can fit the Theta into my system while showing it off.

 

[walter duque]

Beware though because the one you will receive, at least from classic audio parts is the black version. Not sure if that makes a difference as to the sexiness.

You're like a kid in a candy store. What you should do is get in your car and come to Ellenville, it's less than 1 hour. This way you will know how much power you need for your system. I got a lot of watts sitting here.

 

[jinjuku]

You're like a kid in a candy store. What you should do is get in your car and come to Ellenville, it's less than 1 hour. This way you will know how much power you need for your system. I got a lot of watts sitting here.

Would you recommend that the OP also look at AB international? I am going to check out the Precedent 900A on Tuesday and if it works like advertised I will bring it home.

It's old school for sure. I believe kind of like the Millennium Falcon: She don't look like much but she has it where it counts.

Fortunately for me I rack my amps so the whole not have an 'aesthetic statement' saves me a pile of cash.

 

[walter duque]

Would you recommend that the OP also look at AB international? I am going to check out the Precedent 900A on Tuesday and if it works like advertised I will bring it home.

It's old school for sure. I believe kind of like the Millennium Falcon: She don't look like much but she has it where it counts.

Fortunately for me I rack my amps so the whole not have an 'aesthetic statement' saves me a pile of cash.

This is Bob's new line. Custom Built Amps - AB Systems Cinema Series Amplifiers | AVForums.com - UK Online - Page 15 go towards bottom of forum and you will see prices and pictures of his new amp. As you will see it's the same as the Verastarr. Verastarr Audio - Studio 6.4 Amplifier and look at the price at that. I'll post some pictures my friend is sending me of the AB's I got for him. I am not sure now but it was around $750.-- and that's a lot of power for the money. With Bob you can always make a deal and that is what I like about him. He might even have some new face plates hanging around for the 900 and some knobs?

 

[DS-21]

Why a "never ending" journey? It's just an interchangeable commodity part that adds some gain to an electrical waveform.

What's the most important thing to you here? I mean, among things that actually differ between amps, such as price, safety, claimed output, looks, noise, size, service/support, energy efficiency, etc.

If it were me, I'd look first for one that has been tested by a certified lab to meet OSHA safety regulations. No amps lacking one of these logos on the back would find its way into my home, at least.

After that, I'd look for a 2-pronged power socket, because they seem less prone to ground loops than 3-pronged sockets.

 

[fuzz092888]

Why a "never ending" journey? It's just an interchangeable commodity part that adds some gain to an electrical waveform.

What's the most important thing to you here? I mean, among things that actually differ between amps, such as price, safety, claimed output, looks, noise, size, service/support, energy efficiency, etc.

If it were me, I'd look first for one that has been tested by a certified lab to meet OSHA safety regulations. No amps lacking one of these logos on the back would find its way into my home, at least.

After that, I'd look for a 2-pronged power socket, because they seem less prone to ground loops than 3-pronged sockets.

You are correct it's not never ending, but I'm young and impatient. I'm just beginning to build a system and am most concerned with value at this point. My price range is limited, since my majority of my budget has been allotted for speakers, but then again I want something that I can be happy with for the foreseeable future (5+ years). I need a bit of flexibility, which is why I decided on separates, and I'm relatively sure my processor will end up being the Marantz AV7005, unless some spectacular deal on something comes my way.

I'm still auditioning speakers, but I'm still leaning towards the Philharmonic 3s anyways.

Walter and ADTG have been humoring me and answering my random and seemingly endless questions. So now my latest issue has become I have all these choices for amps right around my price range and which one will fit my needs best. I'm trying to get together with Walter to get a better handle on what those needs are exactly, but after doing a little auditioning I at least know which direction I'm headed.

Need:
Enough power to wake the neighbors, but not necessarily enough to knock the house down. (200+ wpc @ 4ohms perhaps?)

Reliability (Something that will last and perform for a good long time)

Quality components (This goes along with reliability, but also so that it will never harm my speakers)

Performance (Well obviously the better it works the more appealing it is)

Aesthetics (Don't really care, if it looks pretty too thats a cherry on top i.e. the Theta Walter mentioned)

 

[DS-21]

You are correct it's not never ending, but I'm young and impatient. I'm just beginning to build a system and am most concerned with value at this point. My price range is limited, since my majority of my budget has been allotted for speakers, but then again I want something that I can be happy with for the foreseeable future (5+ years). I need a bit of flexibility, which is why I decided on separates, and I'm relatively sure my processor will end up being the Marantz AV7005, unless some spectacular deal on something comes my way.

Since you don't already have the Marantz, I'd skip the whole amp thing and just get an Anthem MRX receiver instead. Try their listed "custom installers," because they're in my experience more apt to be willing to maneuver on price than "high end" showrooms.

"Flexibility" is really just false economy. You spend more now, get no sonic improvements, and suffer at least as much depreciation as a good AVR does. But lose more value in absolute terms, because the parts are more expensive to start.

Sure, an AVR is less visually impressive than separates. But you have lower potential noise, and the one area in which modern electronics actual differ is in the room correction software. IMO, room correction in the Anthem is superior to Audyssey if one's using good speakers, because ARC doesn't impose a notch filter on the midrange to compensate for the directivity mismatch common in "high end" speakers. (One can eliminate the infernal Audyssey notch by upgrading your unit to Pro, but that's an extra several hundred dollars between the license and the measurement kit.) That said, there's an Onkyo unit, 809 or something like that, that seems to do everything the Marantz pre-pro does (including having the same version of Audyssey) but that also includes some pretty stout amplification.

Any of them will have sufficient voltage swing and current capability for Dr. Murphy's speakers, and the other differences are minimal. So if you don't need the streaming features, the $2000 MRX 700 is no better than the $1000 MRX 300. (And IMO a $1000 MRX 300 + a $100 AppleTV is superior to an MRX 700.)

Spend the balance on multiple subwoofers to smooth out performance in the modal region, a good DSP processor for them, and measurement equipment. (Though one nice thing about the Anthem is that its QuickMeasure function means one can get by without having to learn a measurement program, and get pretty good results.) Maybe one big one and two smaller ones.

The approach of AVR with better room correction plus a little DSP box for subwoofer processing plus three subs, once you've spent some time optimizing things, will result in a higher-fidelity system than ~$2500 in separates, 100% guaranteed.

 

[walter duque]

You are correct it's not never ending, but I'm young and impatient. I'm just beginning to build a system and am most concerned with value at this point. My price range is limited, since my majority of my budget has been allotted for speakers, but then again I want something that I can be happy with for the foreseeable future (5+ years). I need a bit of flexibility, which is why I decided on separates, and I'm relatively sure my processor will end up being the Marantz AV7005, unless some spectacular deal on something comes my way.

I'm still auditioning speakers, but I'm still leaning towards the Philharmonic 3s anyways.

Walter and ADTG have been humoring me and answering my random and seemingly endless questions. So now my latest issue has become I have all these choices for amps right around my price range and which one will fit my needs best. I'm trying to get together with Walter to get a better handle on what those needs are exactly, but after doing a little auditioning I at least know which direction I'm headed.

Need:
Enough power to wake the neighbors, but not necessarily enough to knock the house down. (200+ wpc @ 4ohms perhaps?)

Reliability (Something that will last and perform for a good long time)

Quality components (This goes along with reliability, but also so that it will never harm my speakers)

Performance (Well obviously the better it works the more appealing it is)

Aesthetics (Don't really care, if it looks pretty too thats a cherry on top i.e. the Theta Walter mentioned)

Isn't she http://app.audiogon.com/images/285971 a beauty?

 

[fuzz092888]

Funny you should mention that, I was eyeing that as well. If only I could scrounge up a bit more money..................

I will say that in one of the reviews I was reading about the Theta intrepid the reviewer said they actually preferred the sound of the intrepid to the dreadnaught, even though the dreadnaught clearly won in the bass area due to the extra power.

Theta Intrepid Amp Reviewed

 

[DS-21]

Any of them will have sufficient voltage swing and current capability for Dr. Murphy's speakers, and the other differences are minimal.

To put some flesh on that point, right now Dr. DS-21 is attending to people's brains, so I'm home alone with our kittens. I'm listening to Radiohead's "Fake Plastic Trees" on a system that consists of much smaller speakers than you're considering (three little KEF HTS3005SE eggs up front, two even litter KEF HTS1005.2 eggs for surround) with three small and hidden closed-box subwoofers. Listening position is near the middle of the living room, about 11 feet from the front three speakers. The mains are all powered by an Anthem MRX 300. (True, the three subs have about 1.6kW average/ 4kW peak behind them, and are lowpassed in at 150Hz. Small closed boxes need power to get low with decent SPL. Fortunately, amps capable of putting lots of power into bass frequencies are relatively cheap.)

According to my calibrated Galaxy SPL meter, the average level at the listening position is hovering around 95dB.

People drastically overestimate the amount of power they "need."

 

[fuzz092888]

I don't doubt you at all, I've read quite a few articles/posts saying exactly the same thing as you are saying and that the majority of the time people usually are driving anywhere near the high end of what their speakers are rated for. This being said I've read an equal number of posts/articles that have shown that even being driven at modest levels there are always peaks and dips in the power needed from the speakers and that without the necessary power on hand it can leave something to be desired from the sound.

When I asked Dennis he said that 100 wpc at 4 ohms was the minimum he recommended and that a bit more couldn't hurt which is why I was looking for a bit more juice.

 

[GranteedEV]

The Philharmonic 2s are 87db sensitive and a 4 ohm load.

Personally, i'd want about 40V capability to hit 100 db @ 10 ft - 400w into 4 ohms.

I would drive them with these amps:

Crown XLS 1500 Power Amp, 1500 Watts at zZounds

and not get caught up in the $4000+ stuff for your first damn amp. Lasting a lifetime is just an excuse to pay 8X as much. Buy this amp, and evaluate first whether you really want to spend any more on amps.

They're god damn amps.