The Dts Advantage ?

[scottyg]

I was just wondering if any of you audiophiles think there is any "real" advantage when watching a movie encoded with dts that really doesnt have much action....is the dialogue improved at all compared DD ?? If so can you notice a significant difference ?

 

[gene]

I was just wondering if any of you audiophiles think there is any "real" advantage when watching a movie encoded with dts that really doesnt have much action....is the dialogue improved at all compared DD ?? If so can you notice a significant difference ?

If we are just comparing regular DTS to DD, then DTS has the advantage when listening to multi channel music or very dynamic soundtracks in movies. As far as vocal intelligibility, I am not sure it would be audible.

DTS uses less compression, has better channel to channel separation and less high frequency losses when compared to DD. I usually select the DTS soundtrack if the DVD has the option.

 

[scottyg]

Gene,
Why does hollywood put out movies in dts with literally no or very little special effects ?? I care for dts titles but still think most people who buy dvds could care a less.......needless to say I stopped by best buy to pickup a few movies in dts after finiding a list here that included every dts movie made and beside the superbit dvds they really didnt have muich at all.....I was wondering why circuit city had a boat load of movies in dts? Any reason why? It kind of stinks that I have to buy a dts movie online when I have an itch to watch a new movie....I even gave target a shot and stuck out!! What can we do to make sure dts titles are available in these stores ?

 

[j_garcia]

Not sure what you are talking about. Your first question suggests you missed what Gene was saying entirely - the quality of the sound with a dts track is not lost on movies that are not action movies. You still get great channel separation and clarity. dts is not for action only...

There are no dts only titles anymore, so most of the movies listed with dts tracks, the disc likely includes both dd and dts. There are fewer dts vs dd available, but there are by no means a shortage of dts tracks available.

The reality is, it is the mixing/mastering that determines how good a particular soundtrack is going to be, regardless of dd or dts, because I have heard good and bad examples of each. Like Gene, if it has a dts track, that is what I will choose first. If not, oh well. Using dts as a way to choose movies isn't a very good plan IMO.

 

[Seth=L]

As far as there not being many titles that feature DTS, yes they are fewer than those that have just dolby tracks. I have around 100 dvds, legitimate copies, and just about 25% of them have DTS stracks on them, as well as Dolby Digital.

Concerning music in 5.1 or 5.0, well mastered DTS tracks will walk all over Dolby Digital material. Dolby operates at 384 kb/sec. and in contrast DTS can operate at 1.4 mb/sec. Also note that CDs operate at 1.4 mb/sec. making Dolby ten times more inferior than CD, Were DTS is in line with CD quality audio.

With movies, it is harder to tell. But DTS holds it's own and them some against DTS. This becomes very evident with DTS-ES in a 6.1 or 7.1 setup.

 

[scottyg]

Thansk for the info...I just bought a new receiver and I can actually tell a difference when listening to some scenes over and over with a different format. Can you suggest a few dd titles that you think are better than the dts track.....I am trying to train my ears to hopefully one day consider myself an audiophile like you three....everybody has to start somewhere
thanks
scott

 

[MDS]

Concerning music in 5.1 or 5.0, well mastered DTS tracks will walk all over Dolby Digital material. Dolby operates at 384 kb/sec. and in contrast DTS can operate at 1.4 mb/sec. Also note that CDs operate at 1.4 mb/sec. making Dolby ten times more inferior than CD, Were DTS is in line with CD quality audio.

Sorry Seth but that is a total apples to oranges comparison. DD and DTS are both lossy compression ('perceptual coding') formats whereas CD audio is uncompressed PCM. Bit rate is not the most important factor - the algorithm used to perform the compression is far more important. Note also that a large portion of the DTS bitstream contains control information (ie NOT the audio content) and that accounts for much of the higher bitrate.

One may prefer DTS over DD for whatever reason but it is certainly not because of the bitrate.

 

[Seth=L]

I understand that CD is different. I was just making it simple. I suppose I shouldn't do that. Though I would say that DTS is closer to CD quality than Dolby.

 

[j_garcia]

Good example of how well done a DD track can be is Fight Club. Great LFE and very well mixed.

 

[Seth=L]

I agree with that John, they don't even need DTS on that one.

 

[gene]

Bit rate is not the most important factor - the algorithm used to perform the compression is far more important. Note also that a large portion of the DTS bitstream contains control information (ie NOT the audio content) and that accounts for much of the higher bitrate.

That would be true if the bitrate was high enough for DD, which IMO it isn't. This is one of the reasons most DD soundtracks sound very compressed. If bitrate wasn't important (which it is) then Dolby wouldn't be introducing new formats with much higher bitrates in their lossy scheme. You can only compress so much before it becomes audible regardless of the efficiency of the algorithm. DTS is nearly as efficient but is also more robust in many areas. It was enlightening to hear Craig Eggers of Dolby finally admit to me on the last HT Cruise that DTS can be audibly better than DD but it all becomes a wash with their new lossless schemes (ie. MLP, True-HD, etc).

It is also interesting to now see dolby implement variable bitrate allocation in their newer DD+ format that DTS has offered for years.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Thansk for the info...I just bought a new receiver and I can actually tell a difference when listening to some scenes over and over with a different format. scott

Yes, you will as you are not comparing apples to apples. You have no idea how the differences were derived, inherent to the algorithms or mastering and eq-ing. Many years ago, the two formats were compared as best it could be at the time, it was all over the place that the algorithm would not cause, hence, external manipulation in the processing.
After all, DTS had to have a gimmick to sell it.

 

[gene]

Gene,
Why does hollywood put out movies in dts with literally no or very little special effects ?? I care for dts titles but still think most people who buy dvds could care a less.......needless to say I stopped by best buy to pickup a few movies in dts after finiding a list here that included every dts movie made and beside the superbit dvds they really didnt have muich at all.....I was wondering why circuit city had a boat load of movies in dts? Any reason why? It kind of stinks that I have to buy a dts movie online when I have an itch to watch a new movie....I even gave target a shot and stuck out!! What can we do to make sure dts titles are available in these stores ?

DD is mandated on DVD, DTS is optional. DD has much more marketshare.

IMO DTS is becoming a relic now that Dolby unveiled TrueHD and is a mandatory format in Blu-Ray and HD DVD. They also have more engineering power than DTS.

 

[Seth=L]

So does anyone expect DTS to endure much longer, or do you think that Dolby with put them out of business?

 

[mtrycrafts]

I agree with that John, they don't even need DTS on that one.

Then, that DD track is even closer to CD quality then, no? DTS would not help, hence, it is not the algorithm of the formats but how they are utilized?

 

[mtrycrafts]

So does anyone expect DTS to endure much longer, or do you think that Dolby with put them out of business?

With the new formats, why would there be a need for two indistinguishable formats?

 

[Seth=L]

With the new formats, why would there be a need for two indistinguishable formats?

My point exactly, when do you think DTS will disappear though. I don't think that DTS can market itself into keeping it's doors open. I don't think that Bose's marketing team could even save DTS from doom.

 

[gene]

So does anyone expect DTS to endure much longer, or do you think that Dolby with put them out of business?

As much as I love the sound quality of my Concert DTS DVD's all of which are superior to any of the DD ones I have owned, I think DTS is fading away. Dolby has all of DTS's diversity now and more, but with a huge marketing force, nearly infinite engineering resources and standardization on all the major formats.

 

[MACCA350]

Scottyg, this article explains the difference quite well.

cheers

 

[Seth=L]

What about Movie theaters, are they going to change to these new formats or get revised versions of what they already have. I wonder how much DTS relies on movie theaters and DVDs. Also I read in the article posted by MACCA350 that Universal and DTS have some kind of contract agreement. We might see them for longer than I previously thought.