The Dolby Atmos Home Theater Paradox

[Scott M]

It is possible for a mixer to "over do it" and make the sound distracting, but that was the case even in mono. But after over 300 Dolby Atmos titles, there have been many very beautiful sounding tracks that just plain work. You get into the movie, and get more involved, like you are there. There is a bad misconception that Auro 11.1 , DTS-X, and Dolby Atmos are just for the big action movie. This is not the case at all. Some of the best Atmos soundtracks I have heard were for Thrillers, dramas, and even comedies.

Giving the mixers Dolby Atmos just opened up a huge new tool set to be able to do things they never could before. Now it makes sense to put an actor speaking off screen. With the accuracy of the system, you can not just hear a voice "over there", you can clearly understand every word, even from over your left shoulder. In one movie, the voices of other people in the room was a little distracting. I overheard at least 3 people comment they thought there was a couple talking in the back of the room, but it was actually in the soundtrack. In a busy restaurant scene in 5.1, they kind of have this dull rumble of noise that is sort of the sound of 100 people whispering in the restaurant. On this recording, it sounded like they really recorded a few conversations and piled them up, but spread over the direction of the rest of the dining room in the scene. Of course, no one was used to being able to pick out what a random background person is chatting about, but if you do try it in a real restaurant, you will find if you focus on one person, it is kind of easy to follow what they are saying. In hind site, I see what they were doing with that mix. And if you just follow the action on screen, it just feels like you are there with them in the restaurant. Dishes clink over there, a couple too loud behind you, waiter filling glasses. It sounds real, not like a canned movie scene.

Loud and obnoxious is easy. Getting all the tiny subtle details right, now that is a trick to make a good soundtrack. 5.1 or Atmos, does not make that much difference if the mix is bad.

Did anyone on here happen to see "The 33" in a good Atmos movie theater?
Yes, there were a few pretty loud sections during the big collapse and such, but, what made you really stay on the edge of your seat, was just hearing the sounds of the mountain, creaking and little cracks once in a while. The scene where a couple mirrors break, just makes your skin crawl. The subtle sounds just put you in that mine right with the men being trapped.

I truly enjoyed the new "Star Wars 7" but the soundtrack was not a huge object mix. Sure it used a few moving sounds for the X-wing and TIE fighter scenes, and such, but for the general ambience, I did not hear much of the tiny localized sounds. I am not saying it was a bad mix at all, but a very different use of it.

And "Goosebumps" was almost the polar opposite. Huge use of moving objects and a lot of off screen action that really told you what was coming. The praying mantis and the abominable snowman were great cases where their sound told you so much more before you saw them. And the invisible boy was almost just a sound, with only tiny on screen hints of where he was. This was a very fun mix, almost an "Atmos demo" with a plot. And even as wild as the track got, it never once pulled me out of the movie, quite the opposite, I felt it truly added to keeping me involved.

There are so many more that have used the tech well.

 

[Auditor55]

While we don't have ears on top of our heads we don't have any on our butts or backs either and still manage to hear something coming up behind us.

Overhead sounds in a theater may be distracting for you, others seem to rave about it and might not be doing so if it detracted from the enjoyment of a movie they paid to see.

That's not an appropriate analogy. However you are correct, other seems to rave about it, that's what its really all about, the others thinks so I must follow.

 

[Cos]

I have Atmos set up, I enjoy it. To me it enhances the movie experience on the movies that support it. I have a roughly 20x23 area for my setup and I have 9ft tall ceilings, so it is a pretty good room setup for it.

For others, it may not be good. My suggestion, is go to one of the audio trade shows, find a local dealer who may have a demo room and listen to it. I wouldn't have committed too it if I hadn't heard it first.

 

[Scott M]

I have heard a few demos that were just plain not set up well. When a home Dolby Atmos system is properly setup, I feel all of the current movies using it do sound from really goo to excellent depending on the mix done. The format is certainly not the limiting factor here.

What makes a bad Home Atmos setup...
The first thing I heard that really was annoying was ceiling speakers that were just pointed straight down but well away from the listening seating position. If the Room Auto Cal is done from the seating area and a top speakers is aimed at the floor 10 feet away, it will crank up the gain and dial in Eq to try and make it right in the listening area. This results in the speaker being pushed way too hard and it really draws attention to it.

The other thing I did not like was side surrounds blasting right into your ears. This is bad for 5.1 and 7.1 as well, let alone Dolby Atmos. I know they say to use "ear level" speakers, but if they end up right at the sides of a couch, it can just blast right into the ear of the person on the end of the couch. Back surrounds right next to your head have the same issue.

All of the rooms I have heard where the speakers were a fair distance and the aiming covered the listening area all sounded great.

Think of the speakers as a spot light with about a 60 degree wide cone of light. Can that spread hit all of the listeners? Do some listeners shadow the other listeners? This goes for all speakers, also the Center channel in a room with more than one row. Speakers under a flat screen just do not work if there is a second row of seating. Putting center above the screen has always sounded better to me.

All the same rules apply to whatever top speaker arrangement you use. If just 2 speakers, a little in front of the seating is the preferred place. With 2 pairs, it is good to have in front and behind the listeners, but above and in front, or above and behind will also work, with the correct settings in the AVR.

Once you have the speakers placed and aimed to cover the listeners well, then do a good room tune with at least 4 mic positions on Audyssey or whatever auto tune your AVR supports. If the pass goes well, it should balance the levels and audio delay to make the sound field balance.

One of the worst rooms I ever heard was made to sound great by spending an hour adjusting speaker positions and doing a fresh Audyssey room tune. We raised all 4 surrounds to 10 inches above ear height, and tilted the Top Front speakers as far back as we could. We also named the rear speakers Rear Height as they were right at the wall/ceiling junction. They did end up just 3 feet above the back surrounds, but there was only so much we could do in this room. We also flipped the around so instead of being aimed down and just 30 degrees forward, they are now mostly amiing forward, just 30 degrees down from the ceiling. The 4 top speakers were some cheaper car/van speaker in a box with a "U" bracket,. so it was easy to aim them fore and aft, but I had to take out a screw to turn them a bit so they also aimed in to the listeners. When we re-ran the Audyssey, the levels of the Top Front were set 5 db lower. That is huge, and really shows how much better the speakers are hitting the listening area. The side surrounds went up just 1 db when we moved them, the back tops were also within 1 db, just aimed above your head now instead of below your back.

After the re-tune, we ran parts of a few movies and the sound was so much smoother and more enveloping. The room owner was shocked that just some time and work made such a big difference. He thought it sounded good before, but totally agrees that this is way better.

We did not listen to anything in DSU yet. Upmixing is not that important to me.

 

[Auditor55]

I have Atmos set up, I enjoy it. To me it enhances the movie experience on the movies that support it. I have a roughly 20x23 area for my setup and I have 9ft tall ceilings, so it is a pretty good room setup for it.

For others, it may not be good. My suggestion, is go to one of the audio trade shows, find a local dealer who may have a demo room and listen to it. I wouldn't have committed too it if I hadn't heard it first.

I just think Dolby Atmos and DTS-X is superfluous for the home. I believe for some sound engineers and mixers, having Dolby Atmos and DTS-X, is like a crazy president having control of the nuclear weapons.

 

[Cos]

I just think Dolby Atmos and DTS-X is superfluous for the home. I believe for some sound engineers and mixers, having Dolby Atmos and DTS-X, is like a crazy president having control of the nuclear weapons.

You are definitely entitled to your opinion, and it may seem like overkill, but I notice a sound enhancement with it enabled, so in my case it is a significant improvement to my movie experience and definitely not superfluous.

 

[Auditor55]

You are definitely entitled to your opinion, and it may seem like overkill, but I notice a sound enhancement with it enabled, so in my case it is a significant improvement to my movie experience and definitely not superfluous.

George Lucas said sound is half the experience, however I think sound systems like Atmos and DTS-X is crossing beyond that threshold.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

George Lucas said sound is half the experience, however I think sound systems like Atmos and DTS-X is crossing beyond that threshold.

I think that is an amiable opinion.

Everyone certain has his opinion.

Most of the movies I see these days are in ATMOS theaters. And I think ATMOS is a 100% waste of money and 100% gimmick.

The surrounds just sound 100% louder than normal to me.

My opinion is 100% more inimical.

 

[Cos]

Since sound is objective, its pretty had

I think that is an amiable opinion.

Everyone certain has his opinion.

Most of the movies I see these days are in ATMOS theaters. And I think ATMOS is a 100% waste of money and 100% gimmick.

The surrounds just sound 100% louder than normal to me.

My opinion is 100% more inimical.

The bottom line is that none of us can really state facts in matter, because sound is subjective. What may be a fact for me, may not be for anyone else. The fact for me is that I notice a significant improvement in positional audio with ATMOS on movies like Star Trek. I assure you with 100% accuracy that this is not a placebo effect as I have had many people over to watch movies and have been my lab rats to have me demo it over, and over and over again Again that is in my theater area and it is calibrated to my listening position.

To say surrounds is just 100% louder you, shows me that you spent a lot of money for two extra speakers.

• Movies like Black Hawk Down and Saving Private Ryan sold me on Surround when I went to 5.1/7.1
• To be honest the only really significant differences between 5.1 and 7.1 Surround is when I play on the Xbox or PS4, you really get a strong feeling for the positional sound

To say that surrounds only make things louder is really not an accurate statement if you can hear the difference in where the sound is coming from. When a helicopter flies over in a movie I hear it go from the left side to the right and in the back, to me that is more than 100% louder I had a superbowl party and had multiple comments about the positional crowd cheers via surround.

Either way, I am enjoying the increased sound emersion that the ATMOS provides, albeit, in the very limited number of movies

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Since sound is objective, its pretty had


The bottom line is that none of us can really state facts in matter, because sound is subjective. What may be a fact for me, may not be for anyone else. The fact for me is that I notice a significant improvement in positional audio with ATMOS on movies like Star Trek. I assure you with 100% accuracy that this is not a placebo effect as I have had many people over to watch movies and have been my lab rats to have me demo it over, and over and over again Again that is in my theater area and it is calibrated to my listening position.

To say surrounds is just 100% louder you, shows me that you spent a lot of money for two extra speakers.

• Movies like Black Hawk Down and Saving Private Ryan sold me on Surround when I went to 5.1/7.1
• To be honest the only really significant differences between 5.1 and 7.1 Surround is when I play on the Xbox or PS4, you really get a strong feeling for the positional sound

To say that surrounds only make things louder is really not an accurate statement if you can hear the difference in where the sound is coming from. When a helicopter flies over in a movie I hear it go from the left side to the right and in the back, to me that is more than 100% louder I had a superbowl party and had multiple comments about the positional crowd cheers via surround.

Either way, I am enjoying the increased sound emersion that the ATMOS provides, albeit, in the very limited number of movies

Of course, some people enjoy it, some people couldn't care less about some helicopter sounds and whatnot.

Just different views. No right or wrong.

The salient things to me are 1) better clarity in dialogue and 2) better bass. ATMOS has given me neither in my experience.

I am with the camp that couldn't care less about some helicopter sounds and whatnot.

Some people make it sound like the surrounds are salient and they spend too much on surrounds. But the most important things are the front 3 speakers and subwoofers, not surrounds.

But the key is enjoyment, whichever way. No right or wrong.

 

[Scott M]

Dolby Atmos is not just about the surrounds or the overheads. Object audio is how all movies will be mixed, and most are being mixed as object audio already, even if they release it in just 5.1

Not too long ago, I remember all the same arguments about how 5.1 will only be on big action movies, talkies don't need it. Well, name one movies in the last 10 years that did not have a 5.1 soundtrack?

All of the big mixing consoles are now doing a basic version of object audio internally. All of the separate sounds are kept separate and only mixed (rendered) into the 5.1 or 7.1 as the output from the console. Until the mix is done, they can take any of the sounds, and change the path and level until they feel it fits best with the action on screen. When you mix to a 5.1 output, you take any sound that moves off the screen and it has to smear into the whole wall. For home, that may be just one speaker, and it will sound fine, but there is no precision.

When a mix is being done in Dolby Atmos, they now have all of the speakers programmed into the renderer to there exact locations. So now, when a sound does move on the screen, to off the screen, back down the wall, behind you, the mixer can hear exactly where he is putting that sound in the space. So even when it goes to a 7.1 output, the location of the pans can be more accurate. And when the track is played back in an Atmos room, even when the speakers are in different places, the sounds will come from the correct place that the mixer chose. The sound is rendered live to the final speaker layout. And this is not bringing the height speakers into it at all yet. As for better clarity or bass... Many sound mixers have expressed that the ability to take sounds a bit off the screen does make the dialog clearer as the center and even the left and right screen speakers are not trying to do all of the score and voices together. Many Atmos mixes are pulling the music just into the front wide speakers, just outside of the screen for this reason. When you add in the height speakers, they also pull the music up just off the screen that way as well. Many of these benefits are not as strong when you just have a 7.1.4 home setup, but at the worst, you still have a great sounding 5.1 mix that gets better and better as you give the renderer more speakers to work with.

And yes, there have been weird gimicky mixes and some action movies are throwing louder sounds all over the place, but for the most part, the mixers are getting really good at using the technology well to make the sound system vanish and just give the audience a great soundscape. In my opinion, some of the most impressive sounds in a good Atmos mix is the quiet subtle ambiance that is all around us all the time in real life. Even in a quiet home, you have sounds from all different directions. But now think about walking in a mall, or being out in a forrest. There is wind, maybe far off water flowing, people talking behind you, a dog bark in the distance, or the sound of a gun being cocked off to your right.

Mixing in Dolby Atmos is here to stay, and for the better for us all. Even on a 5.1 system, the result is almost always a great sounding track. There have been close to 400 titles mixed in Dolby Atmos now. The move from 5.1 to Atmos has gone much faster than the move from 4-2-4 Dolby Surround to 5.1 went back in the early 90's. Discrete 5.1 gave the mixers freedom from the cross talk of the surround decoder, and the digital track also improved dynamic range and frequency response, but the mixing tools really did not change. With Dolby Atmos, the way they mix is fast becoming the standard because it is actually easier. Once a mix is done in objects, it is easilly edited without messing up other sounds, and it can be rendered out to almost any track or speaker layout, or be sent as the full object mix with Dolby Atmos.

So if you want to keep listening in just 2.0 or 5.1 or whatever, you will stil be hearing object based mixes, many of which are being heard as Dolby Atmos by others, and there is nothing wrong with that. The source mix determines how loud any given sound is. Playing it as 2.0 all the way to 24.4.10 in Home Atmos, or even 37.5.22 in a full blown Atmos cinema, the relative levels of each sound will be virtually identical. The home version does add in optional dynamic range control for the "night mode" and dialog normalization, but for all practical purposes, a gun shot 10 db louder than the talking is still 10 db louder than the talking unless dynamic range control is reducing it. Atmos does not make surrounds louder or take more sound away from the screen, unless it was mixed like that, and then the 5.1 version, will still have those same levels.

Over the 2 years since Dolby Atmos has been in a fair number of theatres, I find it funny to see the same people complain that one mix was gimicky, but then a subtle mix was not very "Atmos". It is obvious that you can't please everyone all the time, but it also seems there is a group of people who will never be happy no matter how you do something. And for some odd reason, that group is almost always the most vocal on the internet. Very quick to bash anything, even if they have no experience with it. I have seen lines like this a hundred times. "I have never heard Dolby Atmos, but I think it is just a stupid gimick!" "They just want to sell more speakers." "I don't care about a helicopter over my head" Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and no one is pushing you to buy anything. If you like how your system sounds, don't change it. Dolby Atmos tracks sound wonderful in 5.1 as well. But just about everyone I have talked to in person, when they hear a Dolby Atmos system that is set up right, they all agree it is a big improvement in how a movie should sound. Some of the home systems I have heard were not great, and I would rather have 5 very good speakers than 11 weak ones any day. If you do not have a budget for good speakers all around, then go with less better ones. This is fine. But why bash a great system because you can't fit it in your room, or you don't want to spend money on an upgrade? I also hate FORCED upgrades, but Atmos is not one of those. This whole mess with the UHD Blu Ray is looking bad, but not because it is not a great system. I know the picture and sound will be great, and I want to go there, but the mess with the HDCP 2.2 is making it a big pain for people all over. Dolby Atmos and even Dolby Vision worked just fine with HDCP 1.4 but to get UHD disk or even some streaming stuff to work, the whole chain needs to be upgraded???? that is bad planning. I am glad to hear reports that the Samsung player will play out at 1080P just fine at HDCP 1.4 for now, but it seems you lose much of the benefits of the format. And the player can't pass Dolby Vision. Oh well, more waiting for the next gen. I bought a new projector just 2 years ago, so I will be HDCP 1.4 for a while still, but at least I can play Atmos.

 

[Auditor55]

I just came from an IMAX presentation, you know the IMAX theaters with the humongous concert size surround speakers, so loud that the surround sound just dominates the entire experience. It was always said that the surrounds were for atmospheric (no pun) type sound and not be used for or mixed in away to draw attention away from story, surround sound is supposed to be seamless.

 

[Auditor55]

Dolby Atmos is not just about the surrounds or the overheads. Object audio is how all movies will be mixed, and most are being mixed as object audio already, even if they release it in just 5.1

Not too long ago, I remember all the same arguments about how 5.1 will only be on big action movies, talkies don't need it. Well, name one movies in the last 10 years that did not have a 5.1 soundtrack?

All of the big mixing consoles are now doing a basic version of object audio internally. All of the separate sounds are kept separate and only mixed (rendered) into the 5.1 or 7.1 as the output from the console. Until the mix is done, they can take any of the sounds, and change the path and level until they feel it fits best with the action on screen. When you mix to a 5.1 output, you take any sound that moves off the screen and it has to smear into the whole wall. For home, that may be just one speaker, and it will sound fine, but there is no precision.

When a mix is being done in Dolby Atmos, they now have all of the speakers programmed into the renderer to there exact locations. So now, when a sound does move on the screen, to off the screen, back down the wall, behind you, the mixer can hear exactly where he is putting that sound in the space. So even when it goes to a 7.1 output, the location of the pans can be more accurate. And when the track is played back in an Atmos room, even when the speakers are in different places, the sounds will come from the correct place that the mixer chose. The sound is rendered live to the final speaker layout. And this is not bringing the height speakers into it at all yet. As for better clarity or bass... Many sound mixers have expressed that the ability to take sounds a bit off the screen does make the dialog clearer as the center and even the left and right screen speakers are not trying to do all of the score and voices together. Many Atmos mixes are pulling the music just into the front wide speakers, just outside of the screen for this reason. When you add in the height speakers, they also pull the music up just off the screen that way as well. Many of these benefits are not as strong when you just have a 7.1.4 home setup, but at the worst, you still have a great sounding 5.1 mix that gets better and better as you give the renderer more speakers to work with.

And yes, there have been weird gimicky mixes and some action movies are throwing louder sounds all over the place, but for the most part, the mixers are getting really good at using the technology well to make the sound system vanish and just give the audience a great soundscape. In my opinion, some of the most impressive sounds in a good Atmos mix is the quiet subtle ambiance that is all around us all the time in real life. Even in a quiet home, you have sounds from all different directions. But now think about walking in a mall, or being out in a forrest. There is wind, maybe far off water flowing, people talking behind you, a dog bark in the distance, or the sound of a gun being cocked off to your right.

Mixing in Dolby Atmos is here to stay, and for the better for us all. Even on a 5.1 system, the result is almost always a great sounding track. There have been close to 400 titles mixed in Dolby Atmos now. The move from 5.1 to Atmos has gone much faster than the move from 4-2-4 Dolby Surround to 5.1 went back in the early 90's. Discrete 5.1 gave the mixers freedom from the cross talk of the surround decoder, and the digital track also improved dynamic range and frequency response, but the mixing tools really did not change. With Dolby Atmos, the way they mix is fast becoming the standard because it is actually easier. Once a mix is done in objects, it is easilly edited without messing up other sounds, and it can be rendered out to almost any track or speaker layout, or be sent as the full object mix with Dolby Atmos.

So if you want to keep listening in just 2.0 or 5.1 or whatever, you will stil be hearing object based mixes, many of which are being heard as Dolby Atmos by others, and there is nothing wrong with that. The source mix determines how loud any given sound is. Playing it as 2.0 all the way to 24.4.10 in Home Atmos, or even 37.5.22 in a full blown Atmos cinema, the relative levels of each sound will be virtually identical. The home version does add in optional dynamic range control for the "night mode" and dialog normalization, but for all practical purposes, a gun shot 10 db louder than the talking is still 10 db louder than the talking unless dynamic range control is reducing it. Atmos does not make surrounds louder or take more sound away from the screen, unless it was mixed like that, and then the 5.1 version, will still have those same levels.

Over the 2 years since Dolby Atmos has been in a fair number of theatres, I find it funny to see the same people complain that one mix was gimicky, but then a subtle mix was not very "Atmos". It is obvious that you can't please everyone all the time, but it also seems there is a group of people who will never be happy no matter how you do something. And for some odd reason, that group is almost always the most vocal on the internet. Very quick to bash anything, even if they have no experience with it. I have seen lines like this a hundred times. "I have never heard Dolby Atmos, but I think it is just a stupid gimick!" "They just want to sell more speakers." "I don't care about a helicopter over my head" Of course, everyone is entitled to their own opinion, and no one is pushing you to buy anything. If you like how your system sounds, don't change it. Dolby Atmos tracks sound wonderful in 5.1 as well. But just about everyone I have talked to in person, when they hear a Dolby Atmos system that is set up right, they all agree it is a big improvement in how a movie should sound. Some of the home systems I have heard were not great, and I would rather have 5 very good speakers than 11 weak ones any day. If you do not have a budget for good speakers all around, then go with less better ones. This is fine. But why bash a great system because you can't fit it in your room, or you don't want to spend money on an upgrade? I also hate FORCED upgrades, but Atmos is not one of those. This whole mess with the UHD Blu Ray is looking bad, but not because it is not a great system. I know the picture and sound will be great, and I want to go there, but the mess with the HDCP 2.2 is making it a big pain for people all over. Dolby Atmos and even Dolby Vision worked just fine with HDCP 1.4 but to get UHD disk or even some streaming stuff to work, the whole chain needs to be upgraded???? that is bad planning. I am glad to hear reports that the Samsung player will play out at 1080P just fine at HDCP 1.4 for now, but it seems you lose much of the benefits of the format. And the player can't pass Dolby Vision. Oh well, more waiting for the next gen. I bought a new projector just 2 years ago, so I will be HDCP 1.4 for a while still, but at least I can play Atmos.

Dolby Atmos might be here to stay, however only as a niche consumer product. Upcoming A/V receiver will be so equipped, however I believe it will be a feature for the most part that will go unused because most people are not going to put all those speakers up in their rooms to get it done right. Most people have A/V systems in their living room and not in a dedicated room. Optical disc (i.e. Blu Ray, DVD, UHD Blu Ray, etc.) is own the way out. What you witness happen to the audio CD, it's basically obsolete, the video disc is going the same way, the way of the Do Do bird, streaming (for worse) is the future. Good luck with Dolby Atmos, DTS-X and 4K streaming, we can't even get 1080p, Dolby True-HD and DTS-Master audio right with streaming.

 

[Scott M]

I will completely agree with you (Auditor55) on the IMAX sound setup. I paid to see one movie in an IMAX digital screen a couple years ago, and it was one of the worst presentations I have ever sat through. I was tempted to walk out, but I was with some out of town friends who really wanted to see the movie. The right rear speaker was blaring in my ear and even covering my ear for half the movie, I had bad ringing for an hour after. The balance between the channels and the frequency response had to be out of spec. I have watched several movies in a Dolby Atmos screen, and after, just ducked into the IMAX screen, and it is no comparison. 1 minute in the IMAX room, and I am ready to leave. Whoever does their room tune should be fired. And trying to cover a 400 seat theater from a singe surround speaker on each side is just goofy. In my local IMAX room, the ceiling is pretty low in back, so this giant speaker is barely above my head. In some of the older dedicated museum theaters, they had a high ceiling and the big speaker was aimed down over the audience. That would certainly work better than this mess. Don't confuse an IMAX sound system with Dolby Atmos, they are about as different as you can get. IMAX is starting to push their new 12 channel setup, but i have not heard it yet. They only pair it with their new laser projection system. It is basically a 7.1.4 setup, but instead of a separate LFE channel, they feed the 12th channel to a full range speaker up high above the normal center speaker behind the screen. This sounds like a step in the right direction, but I hope they found new people to tune it.

As for your other post here... I know what you mean about streaming. The high compression needed to get the bit rate down is a killer. Even with my 50 Mbps internet connection, it can't hold a candle to a Blu Ray disk. I sure hope physical media lives on, because streaming is such a waste of what the internet was meant to be. For my live television, I have Dish Network. Beaming tons of data down to all the viewers in the area makes a lot more sense than trying to stuff it over the internet. I am looking at 3 satellites, each cranking out a massive amount of data. Too bad they use this to offer tons of channels instead of UHD quality on less channels, but it is still miles better than anything cable can do and is usually better than what a single streamed movie can do, and I can tune in 3 of them on my Hopper. And with more tuners, you could grab many more of the 300+ channels coming down from the satellites. With streaming, you get to pick 1, or maybe a second signal to stream if you want decent HD with no blocking. We can only hope their are enough people you appreciate quality to keep physical media on sale for some time to come. Of course, Dolby is a pretty smart company, and they are about as good as you can get for making the most out of reduced bit rates. DD+ and HEVC with Dolby Atmos and Dolby Vision can fit an amazing picture and sound into a fairly low bit rate. And this is what the 4K streaming services are using. I do not see switching to a 4K screen any time soon. My 1080P image at 100 inches looks amazing. I can only really ever make out pixels from my viewing position on a still computer image. With real video, they vanish. Very few feature films are released in 4K yet, most are still 2K, and I doubt that will change very fast, so many of the UHD disks will likely be upscaled. To me, that is a waste of disk space. Use the higher data rate to send a less compressed native 1080P image. When I was out visiting in California, I did get a chance to check out "The Martian" in a Dolby Cinema, and I have to say, that was an amazing image. It was true 4K, but the Dolby Vision projection system is what really blew it out of the water. The huge improvement in contrast over a normal cinema projector is just jaw dropping. I do want HDR now, but it may be quite a while before any home projector can hit this kind of contrast. There are a few flat panels coming out, and I did get to see the new Vizio 65 inch R series, and it does look incredible. Sony, LG, Samsung, and a few others will also be shipping Dolby Vision TV's soon, but I really like projection, so I don't think I can go back to a flat panel in my movie room again.

As I wrote in my last post, if you are happy with what you have, stick with it. I don't see why you feel the need to tell others to not even give it a thought. It is okay for you to not like it, but you can't honestly say it is a bad system or not as good as 5.1 or whatever you want to compare it to. I agree, it is not for everyone, and there are many rooms it just is not worth trying to make it work right, but if a room can be setup with decent speakers, a Dolby Atmos system will give a better movie watching experience over a typical 5.1 setup. To get the same quality, you are right, you can't skimp on speakers and spread the cost around. The front Left, Center, and Right are always going to be the most important for clarity, and there should be no skimping there. A good sub woofer will also go a long way to making movies sound great. And with the surround and overhead speakers, you usually get what you pay for. Good, reasonably efficient speakers that can cover the listening area with good frequency response and low distortion are not going to be super cheap. And when you start using as many as 8 surround speakers, the cost can certainly add up. I was a big nay sayer about the upfiring speakers, and the first ones I heard were not that good, I think they were Def Techs. But I recently got to hear a set of the new Klipsch Atmos enabled speakers, and they really sounded great. If I went into the room blindfolded, I would have sworn there were speakers in the ceiling. If you can run a 5.1 system, you can use a pair of the Klipsch RP-280FA speakers for your front Left and Right and go to 5.1.2 and you will be amazed at the imaging and immersion you can get. They also have the add on RP-140SA module, so you can even keep your existing speakers if you like, but I liked the built in one a little better because the upfiring speaker is sunk into the top so it seemed to feel more discrete overhead. The separate module could be heard as a direct source at times, but still worked far better than I ever expected it to.

Oh well, time to get some sleep. I am installing a set of ceiling speakers for a client in the morning.

 

[Cos]

Of course, some people enjoy it, some people couldn't care less about some helicopter sounds and whatnot.

Just different views. No right or wrong.

The salient things to me are 1) better clarity in dialogue and 2) better bass. ATMOS has given me neither in my experience.

I am with the camp that couldn't care less about some helicopter sounds and whatnot.

Some people make it sound like the surrounds are salient and they spend too much on surrounds. But the most important things are the front 3 speakers and subwoofers, not surrounds.

But the key is enjoyment, whichever way. No right or wrong.

I have to admit, sometimes I get confused by your replies/statements.

You comment "Surrounds just sound 100% Louder to me"

• Since your claim is that is just sounds "Louder" why did you invest in the extra two RBH SX-T2/R in your 5.1 setup?
• My point was that 5.1/7.1 does sound different, not sure why that is even a discussion
• I agree that it is 100% up to the individual's preference as how they like their movie experience but I don't discount the fact that it does add more than just loudness"

I also agree it's a niche product and if I had not gutted my basement, I wouldn't have done ATMOS for exactly the same reasons Auditor55 stated. I am glad that I did, and if I had to do my theater room over again, I would definitely do it the same way.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I have to admit, sometimes I get confused by your replies/statements.

You comment "Surrounds just sound 100% Louder to me"

• Since your claim is that is just sounds "Louder" why did you invest in the extra two RBH SX-T2/R in your 5.1 setup?
• My point was that 5.1/7.1 does sound different, not sure why that is even a discussion
• I agree that it is 100% up to the individual's preference as how they like their movie experience but I don't discount the fact that it does add more than just loudness"

I also agree it's a niche product and if I had not gutted my basement, I wouldn't have done ATMOS for exactly the same reasons Auditor55 stated. I am glad that I did, and if I had to do my theater room over again, I would definitely do it the same way.

I was referring to my ATMOS experience at the movie theaters in the past year when I said that the ATMOS surrounds just mainly sounded louder.

I think 7.1 just sounds louder than 5.1. Nothing more.

 

[Cos]

I was referring to my ATMOS experience at the movie theaters in the past year when I said that the ATMOS surrounds just mainly sounded louder.

I think 7.1 just sounds louder than 5.1. Nothing more.

Thank you for the clarification, and obviously we agree to disagree as I can easily discern the difference between 7.1 and 5.1 on newer DTS MA or Dolby TrueHD such as guardians of the galaxy, edge of tomorrow etc. and comes across more than louder to my ears. As for my movie experience, I like to feel immersed sonically (Yes I appreciate when a helicopter, etc movies acroos both the screen and listening environment) and I do notice a difference with ATMOS, so again disagree with you.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thank you for the clarification, and obviously we agree to disagree as I can easily discern the difference between 7.1 and 5.1 on newer DTS MA or Dolby TrueHD such as guardians of the galaxy, edge of tomorrow etc. and comes across more than louder to my ears. As for my movie experience, I like to feel immersed sonically (Yes I appreciate when a helicopter, etc movies acroos both the screen and listening environment) and I do notice a difference with ATMOS, so again disagree with you.

It all depends on what's important to us and what's not. No right or wrong.

What's salient to me are the quality of the bass, the dialogue, and the main action in front. The surrounds are a nice adjunct, but not salient.

The main reason my 2 surround speakers are 61" big RBH SX-T2/R towers is because I wanted more subwoofer bass in the rear to smooth out the bass response in the room. If we can have only 1 subwoofer, then the Center Front spot is among the best locations. If we have 4 subs, then the 4 corners are among the best locations. My center tower serves as that center front sub. My 4 towers in the 4 corners (1/4 width location) serves as the 4 subs in 4 corners.

The second reason is for aesthetic because I think 5 identical towers good great.

If the surrounds are salient to you, then ATMOS, 7.1, 9.1. etc., are worth every penny and time.

 

[Cos]

I agree with you, the bass, dialogue and the main action in the front is most important. I am 100% satisfied with my T1s and Super Center XXL. I will also be adding 2 subwoofers to the rear of my home theater as that is my next investment. You also answered my secondary question is that the aesthetics of the 4 towers was important to you, as the surround obviously is not.

I though about doing 4 T1s in my HT room but decided against it because
1. Takes up too much space in a 20x23 area even if they are only 56"
2. Will have separate subs for placement purposes.

 

[Dreko]

For me ceiling speaker are to ugly. I live in a concrete house so the speaker need to hank from the ceiling or mounted high in the wall which is no ideal for Dolby Atmos. So if I update to atmos is because I need a new receiver and it will have atmos build in already.