The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Full Audioholic
Ratings
302 2 41
I’ve only watched about 30 minutes of “Waterworld” in 4K/DTSX. But I can tell it’s another winner for DTSX.

The overhead sounds are so fun and add much enjoyment to the movie for me.

I will report more when I’ve seen the entire movie. :D

Man I love Atmos and DTSX. :D
I don't think I could stand to watch more than 30 minutes of Waterworld even if it had outstanding overhead use...god-awful movie. I can't stand most Kevin Costner movies.... Waterworld was the pits (although it was funny watching him drink his own urine. Yum. ;) ) (Ok it was urine recycled into water but still)
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
475 1 33
Perhaps he means people watch movies on phones and so many don't care about Atmos so why should the studios when all people want to do is watch people do dumb things on YouTube.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, Shazam! has Atmos.... (had to remux the 3D version with Atmos, but now it has it too).
You are so right with the cell phone thing. Everywhere I go people today don't even have a AVR setup. They have a big HDTV with a player maybe, and maybe a sound bar that's it! What they do have is their cell phone hooked up to earbuds and you guessed it watching BS on YouTube or some BS on social media.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,354 6 1
You are so right with the cell phone thing. Everywhere I go people today don't even have a AVR setup. They have a big HDTV with a player maybe, and maybe a sound bar that's it! What they do have is their cell phone hooked up to earbuds and you guessed it watching BS on YouTube or some BS on social media.
Fukk that.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,354 6 1
Yeah buddy!! I 2nd that! The setup i have now is modest to say the least, but I could Never go to using just tv speakers! I'd rather take an ass whooping first..;)
I would say my system is modest as well, by my standards. By others it’s probably insane. In my house, cell phone speaker, laptop speakers etc are off limits. Maybe a BT speaker on occasion, but I can’t stand giving up quality for convenience especially when it’s out of laziness. Yes, I do use my phone speakers for some rare occasions but watch a move? Maybe with my in ear monitors, while laying in bed. But I have 5.1 in there so nah...

Hey, sorry to see that damn hurricane hit you.
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
475 1 33
I would say my system is modest as well, by my standards. By others it’s probably insane. In my house, cell phone speaker, laptop speakers etc are off limits. Maybe a BT speaker on occasion, but I can’t stand giving up quality for convenience especially when it’s out of laziness. Yes, I do use my phone speakers for some rare occasions but watch a move? Maybe with my in ear monitors, while laying in bed. But I have 5.1 in there so nah...

Hey, sorry to see that damn hurricane hit you.
Thanks brother, it hit us real good, my car got flooded, power just came on a few hours ago. Lost all the food in my refrigerator, but I'm good. I'm sure there are other's who lost more, homes flooded fir sure just hope no life is lost. Hope all is well on your end? In about two months I will upgrade my speakers, and tv.. looking at a LG 65"
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,354 6 1
Thanks brother, it hit us real good, my car got flooded, power just came on a few hours ago. Lost all the food in my refrigerator, but I'm good. I'm sure there are other's who lost more, homes flooded fir sure just hope no life is lost. Hope all is well on your end? In about two months I will upgrade my speakers, and tv.. looking at a LG 65"
Ooh damn, all the food? That’s harsh! We didn’t have a hurricane obviously, but storms here in MN can be really badass, straight line winds, tornados etc. had a good one come through tonight. Some flooding in town, and my neighbor had part of a tree get blown into his house so... nobody hurt as far as I know, so that’s good. I’ve got the tv upgrade itch too but my straight truck just blew up so, that’s gonna have to wait. Oh well!!!
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
475 1 33
Ooh damn, all the food? That’s harsh! We didn’t have a hurricane obviously, but storms here in MN can be really badass, straight line winds, tornados etc. had a good one come through tonight. Some flooding in town, and my neighbor had part of a tree get blown into his house so... nobody hurt as far as I know, so that’s good. I’ve got the tv upgrade itch too but my straight truck just blew up so, that’s gonna have to wait. Oh well!!!
MN, you a Viking fan? I've been looking at the nano TV's at BestBuy, colors are awesome, but so is the prices too. Man I tell ya being without electrical power makes one realize just how life would be a whole lot different. We take for granite just how much we depend on the electricity to make our lives more comfortable and productive. I've read up on just how bad the storms can get up in MN. You guys can get snowed in really bad. Life can get real hard in a heartbeat makes one grateful when things are good. Thanks brother for the kind words they are much appreciate it!!:)
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,354 6 1
MN, you a Viking fan? I've been looking at the nano TV's at BestBuy, colors are awesome, but so is the prices too. Man I tell ya being without electrical power makes one realize just how life would be a whole lot different. We take for granite just how much we depend on the electricity to make our lives more comfortable and productive. I've read up on just how bad the storms can get up in MN. You guys can get snowed in really bad. Life can get real hard in a heartbeat makes one grateful when things are good. Thanks brother for the kind words they are much appreciate it!!:)
Yeah man, just want to send you some
Good energy. Funny how we take some
things for granted. I watched a ladies kid freak out at the dentist office the other day cause she couldn’t get on the WiFi. Mom was as bad...ugh. Yeah, we get pummeled in the winter, and I loathe it but wife...kids...someday!
Summer storms are wicked too, but at the end of the day, I get this...
 
Phase 2

Phase 2

Audioholic Chief
Ratings
475 1 33
Yeah man, just want to send you some
Good energy. Funny how we take some
things for granted. I watched a ladies kid freak out at the dentist office the other day cause she couldn’t get on the WiFi. Mom was as bad...ugh. Yeah, we get pummeled in the winter, and I loathe it but wife...kids...someday!
Summer storms are wicked too, but at the end of the day, I get this...
Wow! What a awesome sunset! Food for the Soul! I have a friend who works up in Wyoming and Montana sometimes, he loves it up North. We where having some cold brews one night at a club, I asked him about if people up there would carry guns, he goes yeah they do it's like Gun Smoke..lol. Down here in Louisiana we got some tough gun laws which sucks in my book but than again we have a high murder rate also.
 
William Lemmerhirt

William Lemmerhirt

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
2,354 6 1
Wow! What a awesome sunset! Food for the Soul! I have a friend who works up in Wyoming and Montana sometimes, he loves it up North. We where having some cold brews one night at a club, I asked him about if people up there would carry guns, he goes yeah they do it's like Gun Smoke..lol. Down here in Louisiana we got some tough gun laws which sucks in my book but than again we have a high murder rate also.
Yeah. Gun laws work great huh? Lol
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Ninja
Ratings
1,529 6 1
I don't think I could stand to watch more than 30 minutes of Waterworld even if it had outstanding overhead use...god-awful movie. I can't stand most Kevin Costner movies.... Waterworld was the pits (although it was funny watching him drink his own urine. Yum. ;) ) (Ok it was urine recycled into water but still)
Mr. Brooks was one of Costner's best movies IMHO. Waterworld was terrible.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Ratings
8,172 23 6
1. I don't care what format a movie is using as long as it's better than 5.1/7.1.

2. The real problem is Auro doesn't even seem to get support in Europe anymore.

3. If China starts using it (Auro3D) regularly, things could change again.
1. I support the format that has the most contents. If the situation were reversed with Atmos vs Auro3D, I would support Auro3D and so would Yamaha and everyone else. It was the same with BluRay vs HD-DVD.

2. So Auro3D now has lost support in both USA and Europe.

3. I don't care too much about what China supports. Trump will try to kill whatever China supports anyway. :D
 
Jon AA

Jon AA

Enthusiast
Ratings
8
(You can't have two alpha dogs in some circles and clearly Sanjay is considered the alpha dog on AVS when it comes to Atmos and I didn't back down to his nonsense. Oddly, it was arguments about Auro-3D as I recall (he hates it too, I think).
Yes, and much of what he has said about it (at least as implemented by Dennon/Marantz) is simply wrong. You've now got basically the entire board believing Auromatic is "just like" "all channel stereo." Sure, guys like Kevin Voecks and Floyd Toole tool himself enjoy listening to their (probably costing in the six figure range) personal systems in their own homes in "all channel stereo." Give me a break. In my experience it sounds the least like that, doing the best job of maintaining the front soundstage as intended.

Given the 8500 can expand everything to 13.1 and has a specific "Movie" mode, I would really love to see some owners do some experimenting to see what it is doing and comparing that mode with the other upmixers for movies (I feel they've already got it covered for music, even on my lowly 7012). But nobody seems to want to go there because it's not cool to talk about.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Full Audioholic
Ratings
302 2 41
Yes, and much of what he has said about it (at least as implemented by Dennon/Marantz) is simply wrong. You've now got basically the entire board believing Auromatic is "just like" "all channel stereo."
Me or him? Auromatic doesn't sound anything like all channel stereo, IMO. I've set up all channel stereo on my 7012 (with vastly altered levels for the surround speakers) to give a more pleasing effect (like I had when I used a Yamaha) that "sometimes" produced some interesting phase effects in the side or back of the room with some albums (never could get it the same as PLIIx, though),but I generally dislike the effect for most albums and normally just use the regular "stereo" mode (which has matrixed front wides and some added heights for the 'dialog lift' effects as I keep all three front channels at the same height). Auromatic seems to mostly add some reverb to the surrounds with stereo music. At least that's all my ears can detect. It's a bit more spacious, but I think I feel like the front stage is a bit "weaker" somehow and I seem to get more bass in Auromatic than I should for some reason, but yes, I agree the front soundstage is far more intact than the other modes. I'll kick Auromatic or all channel stereo in if more than one row is in use so it's not all up front. But from the MLP, stereo sounds fantastic and can image at least 90 degrees to my side with many albums without the side speakers on.

Sure, guys like Kevin Voecks and Floyd Toole tool himself enjoy listening to their (probably costing in the six figure range) personal systems in their own homes in "all channel stereo." Give me a break. In my experience it sounds the least like that, doing the best job of maintaining the front soundstage as intended.
Toole is great with analyzing sound, but there's no accounting for personal taste for music playback (i.e. they're two different things). Stereo isn't real life, after all. Some like it expanded and some don't. There were many that preferred mono after stereo came out and for awhile some albums were available in both. Maybe it's what you're used to at least to some extent.

Given the 8500 can expand everything to 13.1 and has a specific "Movie" mode, I would really love to see some owners do some experimenting to see what it is doing and comparing that mode with the other upmixers for movies (I feel they've already got it covered for music, even on my lowly 7012). But nobody seems to want to go there because it's not cool to talk about.
I'd be curious to hear how it handles the rear speakers in Auro-3D with Auromatic, especially compared to "copying" it like 11.1 theaters do. With another mixer and an external amp, I could copy my sides to the rear speakers for Auro movies, but I've already got three ways to play them back in Auro decoding (let alone other decoders) and it's not really worth it for the 10 Auro-3D movies I have (and I somehow doubt I'll be getting anymore since Auro looks to be tapped out and I'd bet very little on a comeback).
 
Jon AA

Jon AA

Enthusiast
Ratings
8
Me or him? Auromatic doesn't sound anything like all channel stereo, IMO.
I was talking about him, he says that a lot and many repeat it.
Auromatic seems to mostly add some reverb to the surrounds with stereo music. At least that's all my ears can detect.
It depends upon the music. With close-mic'd studio recorded popular stuff that contains little ambient sound, it doesn't do much (at default settings),and can be hard to tell you're not listening in 2 channel--I need to switch back and forth to even tell a difference--auromatic can add just a bit more "depth," but it's not a large effect; if you put your ear to a surround speaker, very little is coming out.

But with large-venue live recordings (usually classical of some type, some jazz) it really comes alive. I haven't found anything that comes as close to making a stereo recording sound like a native Auro recording (which are absolutely fantastic). Neural X is like a box of chocolates with such stuff, sometimes sounding much like all channel stereo. DSU often seems to surround you with the band when that wasn't the original intent. Auromatic does the best job of placing you in the venue and giving you a first row seat. Not as good as a natively recorded track obviously, but pretty darn close with some things.

Anyway, those are my impressions from much experimentation. And they're strong enough, any future upgrade I do has to have it, even if not another single movie ever gets made with it.
 
Jon AA

Jon AA

Enthusiast
Ratings
8
Forgot, back to movies:
I'd be curious to hear how it handles the rear speakers in Auro-3D with Auromatic, especially compared to "copying" it like 11.1 theaters do.
Yes, that's the type of thing I'd like to hear from owners of the 8500 that have that mode. Some of the things Auromatic does in "regular modes" available on the 7012 that I think are great for music, aren't so great for movie upmixing in my opinion. If the "Movie" mode changes some of those things (and I suspect it does) such that it rivals Neural X (which I think is great for movies) or DSU for movie material it would provide another option some may prefer--especially those who don't want to (or can't) install ceiling speakers, as height speakers are much easier to install for some people. Unfortunately there has been very little discussion of it.
 
VonMagnum

VonMagnum

Full Audioholic
Ratings
302 2 41
I was talking about him, he says that a lot and many repeat it.
My impression was that people believe every word he says and many are too lazy to learn anything on their own. They've been reading that forum for years and get all their information from the articles and discussion and he "leads" it all. He didn't like one bit that I questioned some of the things he was saying and he copped an attitude towards me very quickly with all his minions jumping in to basically tell me to sit down and shut up so I can "learn something". I didn't like that one bit. While I was new to Atmos/X/Auro, I was NOT remotely new to home theater (I had been running 6.1 for 12 years prior and 5.1 since 1995...Goldeneye was my first DD movie and Jurassic Park on laserdisc was my first DTS one). I also had lots of experience with bipolar speakers in the front and back and dipolars as my main speakers since the end of 1995 (the Carver AL-IIIs). I've got active crossovers, bi-amping, etc. and big and little amps and several DACs. I followed Stereophile until I realized they were hucksters selling ads and went to rec.audio.high-end and rec.audio.opinion when I had newsgroup access in the early 1990s.

So for someone to basically tell me to shut up and sit down really cheesed me off. What makes those others on there think this guy knows more than me about things OTHER than Atmos? So I read a ton of crap about Atmos/X/Auro and had some questions and things to work out and Sanjay's buddy tells me literlaly to go to the Atmos thread and read 10,000 PAGES of messages to catch up before asking questions. Holy crap Batman. That had to be the dumbest thing I've ever read. The same guy also told me I should build like a 5.1.4 or 7.1.4 theater first and then baby-step up from there. WHY? Are speaker arrays or pro logic decoder wiring too complex to build right from the start? I can switch my theater to ANYTHING from 2.0 to 11.1.6 with a push of a few buttons and do "true" Auro-3D, copied or "stretched" (top middle extraction). It wasn't that hard to do, just lots and lots of wiring. No comments from them when I finished my theater. Silence. Dead silence. They remind me of cliques from high school or something. Stuart Bowling from Dolby Corporation personally complimented my rig on the RPF forums and I made it quite clear how I expanded from 7.1.4 to 11.1.6 without something like a Trinnov and used bipolar top middles mounted as side heights. I figure if one of the fathers of Dolby Atmos endorsed my setup, it can't be as "wrong" as Sanjay and the gang would like people to think (I've got all the REW graphs, etc. here from EVERY SEAT even). Yeah, I'm an idiot, Sanjay. Even so, I don't act that way around them. But several ignore everything I say and worse yet will parrot what I just said as if they thought of it and brought it up.

I've really come to despise those forums for that reason. I had a moderator give me a warning for "insulting a member" in the bass movie thread (I asked them to point out where I did that and nothing because it never happened. The TRUTH is I said I didn't really care for Mad Max Fury Road as a movie (not the sound or picture) and I gave specific reasons why even and my god, you'd think I just insulted someone's mother.... People would make points and I would counter and someone else would practically SCREAM at me why was I still talking about it (well because someone commented or asked me a question; are these people MORONS or something? And that's when the unsubstantiated BS warning came I just left. Screw them and the moderators running the place if they're going to just make crap up like that.) Generally speaking, it's SO much more pleasant here (of course those guys think we are simpletons here or something). I want to talk about movies and Atmos not get a lecture on my speaker angle being below 30 degrees from the rear sitting at the MLP (well yeah, the room is 24 feet long, it can't be above 30 for every single seat; that's why I have top middle speakers to bridge it together. Do they think real theaters rear speakers are at 30 degrees from the back in the front row? Of course not. But that's how LITERAL they take the Dolby "guidelines" for home theater. Like you can't do more than one or two rows or look at the real theaters?

Did they even notice that the side surrounds in actual theaters are mounted as SIDE HEIGHTS, not ear level? Only Auro theaters have speakers just above ear level and another set at height level plus VOG speakers at "top" level (which are individual speakers in Auro-Max). it's actually a VASTLY SUPERIOR speaker setup, IMO as Auro-Max than Dolby. Too bad it's losing the race. A home Auro-Max would challenge Atmos/X on every level, IMO and be far more flexible to setup in an average room.

It depends upon the music. With close-mic'd studio recorded popular stuff that contains little ambient sound, it doesn't do much (at default settings),and can be hard to tell you're not listening in 2 channel--I need to switch back and forth to even tell a difference--auromatic can add just a bit more "depth," but it's not a large effect; if you put your ear to a surround speaker, very little is coming out.

But with large-venue live recordings (usually classical of some type, some jazz) it really comes alive. I haven't found anything that comes as close to making a stereo recording sound like a native Auro recording (which are absolutely fantastic). Neural X is like a box of chocolates with such stuff, sometimes sounding much like all channel stereo. DSU often seems to surround you with the band when that wasn't the original intent. Auromatic does the best job of placing you in the venue and giving you a first row seat. Not as good as a natively recorded track obviously, but pretty darn close with some things.

Anyway, those are my impressions from much experimentation. And they're strong enough, any future upgrade I do has to have it, even if not another single movie ever gets made with it.
I'll have to try some different types of music with it if I ever get my hearing back in my left ear (still clogged up four days later). I've got the Auro Demo Disc 2 for music and an album by Lichtmond in Auro-3D. They're amazing sounding. The dual quad miked recordings are like binaural for the room (the walls just disappear). Sadly, that's not how movies are mixed which I think is one of the reasons Auro doesn't make quite the same splash playing movies as it does those music recordings. Atmos isn't really set up to do locked channel recordings like that, although it "could" the same way Disney locks objects. But they don't promote that and Auro does for music. It's about as natural as music can sound in playback system, IMO. Yes, you can mix Atmos music to sound good, but it's still a mix, not a snapshot of reality. That's why I was kind of rooting for Auro-3D to at least get some following in Europe or whatever so at least the music recordings would continue. Dolby plays dirty, like all large corporations, though. I have little doubt they stepped on some toes to make sure Auro went nowhere, especially in the USA.
 

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