The Dolby Atmos, DTS-X, and Auro-3D Discussion Thread

T

Trebdp83

Audioholic General
I can't say for certain that it "sounds" better than the cheaper options. All depends on what you have plugged into said processor. But I will easily throw down $18k on a processor that will last for 20 years that comes with all sound codecs, will always be up-to-date via software downloads and has the best customer service in the industry for the life of the product. I don't have to purchase a new processor every 2-3 years to keep up with everything cause that's the model those companies work on. Not hating on any of those other companies. But for me personally, I will spend the money to buy once and call it a day.
Sounds cost effective if used for that length of time and updates keep it current. Which model are you using and which processing modes are your favorite?
 
M

Movie2099

Full Audioholic
Sounds cost effective if used for that length of time and updates keep it current. Which model are you using and which processing modes are your favorite?
I am interested in the Altitude 16 or 32. I haven't dabbled into anything outside Dolby Surround. I'm only running a 5.1 in my current theater. My next theater will be a 9.4.6. So I will definitely be able to test every single sound mode on the market with that setup.

There are other options out there for great processors. You don't have drop $18k for a Trinnov. The Monolith HTP-16 is a really great product and will provide all the sound modes and Dirac Live for $4k. I do believe it was just voted top product for 2020 by Sound and Vision. Price to performance can't be beat.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Full Audioholic
I can't say for certain that it "sounds" better than the cheaper options. All depends on what you have plugged into said processor. But I will easily throw down $18k on a processor that will last for 20 years that comes with all sound codecs, will always be up-to-date via software downloads and has the best customer service in the industry for the life of the product. I don't have to purchase a new processor every 2-3 years to keep up with everything cause that's the model those companies work on. Not hating on any of those other companies. But for me personally, I will spend the money to buy once and call it a day.
What makes you think that any future codecs from dts, dolby, auro etc in the next 20 years can be handled with just a firmware upgrade (and no hardware changes, different chips, etc obviously Trinnov is not gonna upgrade hardware for ya 10 years after you bought it right)??

Looking forward to your response...
 
M

Movie2099

Full Audioholic
What makes you think that any future codecs from dts, dolby, auro etc in the next 20 years can be handled with just a firmware upgrade (and no hardware changes, different chips, etc obviously Trinnov is not gonna upgrade hardware for ya 10 years after you bought it right)??

Looking forward to your response...
I guess nobody can say for sure what form the future holds for codecs. Who knows if half those will be around in 20 years. As far as I know, once you purchase one of their products you get all future upgrades whether it's software or hardware. I can't say for certain that future hardware might be a small cost, but it sure won't be in the thousands. I know Trinnov is working with a company to perfect their future HDMI 2.1 board. It should be coming out this year. They are making it so the user can simply remove the current HDMI board and easily install the new one. You don't have to ship the processor to them or have someone come out. Also, if you are ever experiencing any software issues, you can call them and they can log into your system and diagnose it and fix it from their HQ. That's the kind of service you get when purchasing a higher end product. Does Sound United or Yamaha do that when you purchase one of their products?

I can't wait to hear about the $24k StormAudio processor Gene is putting in his new home theater. I've heard those are really good as well!!
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
What makes you think that any future codecs from dts, dolby, auro etc in the next 20 years can be handled with just a firmware upgrade (and no hardware changes, different chips, etc obviously Trinnov is not gonna upgrade hardware for ya 10 years after you bought it right)??
It might not be about any kind of updates for people who are very comfortable spending $18-24K on a single pre-pro. :D

Is it about being able to? If you had $5 million in the bank, would you need a reason other than "it makes me happy"? :D

$10 million?

For me, I would need $20 million in the bank before I would be happy spending $18-24K on a pre-pro. :D

But everyone has a different comfort level and situation.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Full Audioholic
It might not be about any kind of updates for people who are very comfortable spending $18-24K on a single pre-pro. :D

Is it about being able to? If you had $5 million in the bank, would you need a reason other than "it makes me happy"? :D

$10 million?

For me, I would need $20 million in the bank before I would be happy spending $18-24K on a pre-pro. :D

But everyone has a different comfort level and situation.
If Luxman or Technics released a processor at that price point, sure, i'll write a check right now... But, Trinnov,,,,God knows these guys could go belly up in 5 years and i may be in the cold with their processor...not sure it's worth the risk for me...Besides, i don't think it is some astronomically great sound these guys are capable of...I definitely am not paying 15k extra (over a Yamaha, Marantz, etc pre pro) just for glorified customer support.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
If Luxman or Technics released a processor at that price point, sure, i'll write a check right now... But, Trinnov,,,,God knows these guys could go belly up in 5 years and i may be in the cold with their processor...not sure it's worth the risk for me...Besides, i don't think it is some astronomically great sound these guys are capable of...I definitely am not paying 15k extra (over a Yamaha, Marantz, etc pre pro) just for glorified customer support.
If I can be 100% comfortable spending that kind of money on one processor, it’s NOT going to be about sound quality, customer service, how many years they might be in business, or whether it is worth it.

It will be because it’s pocket change to me. :D

And that’s why I don’t ever see myself buying such a thing... unless I win the big lottery and have $20 million or more in the banks.

Until that happens, I am 100% happy with my Yamaha CX-A5100 and MX-A5000. :D
 
M

Movie2099

Full Audioholic
If Luxman or Technics released a processor at that price point, sure, i'll write a check right now... But, Trinnov,,,,God knows these guys could go belly up in 5 years and i may be in the cold with their processor...not sure it's worth the risk for me...Besides, i don't think it is some astronomically great sound these guys are capable of...I definitely am not paying 15k extra (over a Yamaha, Marantz, etc pre pro) just for glorified customer support.
It kind of sounds like you don't know much about Trinnov. You're just assuming they are some garage startup that came about 4 years ago. Haha. Well hate to tell you, but they are not. They've been around for 20+ years and will be around for a long time. Oh, and did you know that DTS actually uses Trinnov in their studios? They work with DTS Audio hand in hand to help create and advance the audio codec? Just cause you hate things that are really expensive doesn't mean they're bad products. Yes, they are a tad bit over priced in my opinion, but just like anything else "high end" it comes with a price. It's not for everyone.
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
I guess nobody can say for sure what form the future holds for codecs. Who knows if half those will be around in 20 years. As far as I know, once you purchase one of their products you get all future upgrades whether it's software or hardware. I can't say for certain that future hardware might be a small cost, but it sure won't be in the thousands. I know Trinnov is working with a company to perfect their future HDMI 2.1 board. It should be coming out this year. They are making it so the user can simply remove the current HDMI board and easily install the new one. You don't have to ship the processor to them or have someone come out. Also, if you are ever experiencing any software issues, you can call them and they can log into your system and diagnose it and fix it from their HQ. That's the kind of service you get when purchasing a higher end product. Does Sound United or Yamaha do that when you purchase one of their products?

I can't wait to hear about the $24k StormAudio processor Gene is putting in his new home theater. I've heard those are really good as well!!
Codecs used in production discs aren't going anywhere any time soon. Dolby Digital came out well over 20 years ago and is still on most every disc sold. DD+ is on just about every streaming service and is pretty much Dolby Digital with a bit more capability.

DTS has been around over 20 years too, and if you have a DTS-MA or DTS-X track on your disc, you have a "regular" DTS track as well.

So, since both major codecs have been around over 20 years and have just expanded their functionality, I expect them to stay around in one form or another for the foreseeable future.
 
M

Movie2099

Full Audioholic
Codecs used in production discs aren't going anywhere any time soon. Dolby Digital came out well over 20 years ago and is still on most every disc sold. DD+ is on just about every streaming service and is pretty much Dolby Digital with a bit more capability.

DTS has been around over 20 years too, and if you have a DTS-MA or DTS-X track on your disc, you have a "regular" DTS track as well.

So, since both major codecs have been around over 20 years and have just expanded their functionality, I expect them to stay around in one form or another for the foreseeable future.
Totally agree. Dolby and DTS will definitely be around for the long haul. I don't think Auro-3D will last though.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Full Audioholic
If I can be 100% comfortable spending that kind of money on one processor, it’s NOT going to be about sound quality, customer service, how many years they might be in business, or whether it is worth it.

It will be because it’s pocket change to me. :D

And that’s why I don’t ever see myself buying such a thing... unless I win the big lottery and have $20 million or more in the banks.

Until that happens, I am 100% happy with my Yamaha CX-A5100 and MX-A5000. :D
What makes you think guys who have 50 million will drop cash on a Trinnov? bwaaahaha
I am acquainted/friends with some dudes in that kinda networth category (folks i've known in the aerospace industry, been to their houses, etc). But, hey, you only get that rich in the first place, if you are a penny pinching skinflint. Try doing business with one of these pricks, you'll know what i'm talkin about :D
 
panteragstk

panteragstk

Audioholic Spartan
What makes you think guys who have 50 million will drop cash on a Trinnov? bwaaahaha
I am acquainted/friends with some dudes in that kinda networth category (folks i've known in the aerospace industry, been to their houses, etc). But, hey, you only get that rich in the first place, if you are a penny pinching skinflint. Try doing business with one of these pricks, you'll know what i'm talkin about :D
Lot's of assumptions here...

If someone has the money AND is a hard core audio enthusiast, then yes, they'll buy expensive stuff like the Trinnov just because it promises the "ultimate performance". If something else comes out, they'll buy that without hesitation. Hang out in the ultra high end forum at AVS. Those guys buys stuff like this just to see if it's cool.

99.9899999999% of everyone else with money will just buy whatever the sales guys says is the best and won't give it another thought.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Full Audioholic
Lot's of assumptions here...

If someone has the money AND is a hard core audio enthusiast, then yes, they'll buy expensive stuff like the Trinnov just because it promises the "ultimate performance". If something else comes out, they'll buy that without hesitation. Hang out in the ultra high end forum at AVS. Those guys buys stuff like this just to see if it's cool.

99.9899999999% of everyone else with money will just buy whatever the sales guys says is the best and won't give it another thought.
The ultra rich dudes i know are not hardcore enthusiasts and not on any enthusiast forum (pretty fing far from gearheads with the patience for complicated gear). However, they do seem to like music and want great sound to come flying through at the click of a button.

How do you know if the guys on the ultra high end forum at AVS are ultra rich? Maybe, they're not that rich after all ...lol (just kiddin)
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
The ultra rich dudes i know are not hardcore enthusiasts and not on any enthusiast forum (pretty fing far from gearheads with the patience for complicated gear). However, they do seem to like music and want great sound to come flying through at the click of a button.

How do you know if the guys on the ultra high end forum at AVS are ultra rich? Maybe, they're not that rich after all ...lol (just kiddin)
Some of those guys in that forum are probably showoffs and consumerist, like people that buy Mercedes and BMW's that they can't really afford.
 
Auditor55

Auditor55

Audioholic General
Why Atmos & DTS:X Still SUCK - January 2021

I don't think very many people really know what Atmos or DTS:X "sound like" because ALMOST NOBODY is producing discs or cinema movies having soundtracks that were mastered appropriately for the new formats. Any comments made about Atmos and DTS:X so far are irrelevant so far, because there just aren't movies out there that use the height channels appropriately (well, not many). In real life, EVERTHING you hear from crickets and wind to explosions and weapon noises have a height component. In Atmos and DTS:X movies, for the most part, NONE of that is every put into the height channels because no human is in charge of the mastering. Instead, I swear it sounds like they run a 5.1 or 7.1 soundtrack through Dolby Surround or DTS Neural:X, then decode that discrete channel information into the blu-ray disc. Only problem is, both Dolby Surround and Neural:X sound AWFUL when you use them on movies or music. Seriously AWFUL.

Here is an example, in the Star Trek movie where 1000s of enemies attack the Enterprise by stabbing into the hull of the ship, ripping the hull open enough to allow attackers to enter the Enterprise. Once inside, there is gun fire everywhere, and all kinds of fighting and explosions. During all of that, you hear NOTHING, literally NOTHING from the height channels. If you were in that environment, the overhead sound would be HUGE, but in the actual movie sound track, there is NOTHING but silence until you hear "Red Alert" announced several times. Talk about UNREALISTIC. It's actually PATHETIC because that announcement causes you to notice that the height channels have been silent during this whole grand combat scene--and all of the movie preceding it. (I don't count soundtrack music as being a legitimate immersive sound element... mostly, music in the height channels alone is distracting and unsettling. Music that has 2/3 of the instruments in the 5.1 or 7.1 sound and the other 1/3 in the immersive channels is VERY distracting since we never hear music like that in real life. All the music should be in the 5.1 or 7.1 channels with just musical AMBIENCE in the immersive channels for the sound to be natural.

This is NOT a condemnation of Atmos or DTS:X. It is a condemnation of STUDIOS for not putting up the money to put human intelligence behind the mastering of "immersive" soundtracks. One movie I investigated early after Atmos and DTS:X tracks were appearing had EXACTLY 5 seconds of sound in the entire 2 hour movie, and then it was only 2 or 3 musical instruments of the soundtrack, not anything actually in the movie. Essentially, there are maybe 5 movies released with "decent" immersive soundtracks that meet the promise, at least partially, for immersive sound---at least when it comes to Atmos and DTS:X movies released in the US.

Our only "defense" against bad Atmos and DTS:X soundtracks is to review movies appropriately. Turn off the amps for the ear level channels so you can only hear the height channels and do something else while the movie plays... you'll be able to easily notice how much or how little sound there is in the height channels even if you aren't paying "hard" attention to the movie being played. You can be EASILY fooled into thinking you are hearing things in the height channels when they are really originating in the 5.1 or 7.1 speakers, NOT the height channels.

The only place I have seen disc reviews that actually tell you how good or bad the immersive sound quality is by LISTENING to the isolated height channels and looking at channel activity monitors is Widescreen Review magazine. I'm not saying nobody else does this, but it's the only place I've seen it done so far. They actually assign a rating on a 5-star scale for how good or bad the immersive sound was (along with the 5.1 or 7.1 sound rating, and image quality rating). When Atmos and DTS:X were new, I assumed there was stuff in the immersive channels. Imagine my surprise then to find that most movies had fewer than 5 minutes of sound of any kind in the height channels with nearly NONE of it being ambient sound placed in the height channels---so most movies are 5.1 or 7.1 for all but 5 minutes of their run times. The first time I listened to these soundtracks without the 5.1 or 7.1 speakers active, I instantly found the source of my dissatisfaction.

What's worse is that if you have one of these bad DTS:X or Atmos soundtracks on a disc, if you do NOT use Atmos or DTS:X to decode the soundtrack, but instead use AuroMatic 3-D to decode the movie disc, AuroMatic will IGNORE the Atmos and DTS:X encoding and put near continuous ambience in the height channels while still putting other height effects up there, like fly-overs and such. That combat scene on the Enterprise was FULL of echoes and gunfire bounces and the Red Alert announcements instead of being SILENT during the combat. Dolby Surround makes stereo music sound like C-R-A-P, seriously bad. DTS Neural:X makes music sound a little better than D.S. but stereo still sounds better. AuroMatic 3-D on the other hand sounds better than stereo music 100% of the time (so far). (disclosure: I have used audio systems valued between $15,000 for electronics and speakers up to ~$150,000 and have been examining immersive soundtracks since the first discs appeared.)

If you want to get into immersive sound and you don't have AuroMatic 3-D, AuroMatic 2-D, and Auro 3-D decoding, you are completely missing the best immersive sound you can get while studios are still screwing up nearly every Atmos and DTS:X soundtrack. In Europe, many movies on discs have Auro-3D soundtracks. I have only ordered one of those, so my experience is limited and I can't say whether Auro-3D movies generally have better immersive sound than Atmos or DTS:X or not based on that one movie. But you can order movies from Amazon.co.uk (for example) that have Auro-3D soundtracks and compare those to the US versions of the disc that have Atmos or DTS:X. If you don't have Auro-3D and it's immersive processing (originally AuroMatic, but recently has changed to AuroMatic 2-D and AuroMatic 3-D where AuroMatic 2-D expands stereo to 5.1 or 7.1 sound and AuroMatic 3-D that expands the sound into 5.1 or 7.1 PLUS height channels you have installed. AuroMatic single-handedly restored my faith in immersive sound after the horrible disservice being done to it by Movie Studios in the US. Currently, for me, Atmos and DTS:X decoding are worthless to me. I will not own a pre-pro or AVR that doesn't include Auro because I constantly use AuroMatic on everything. I am one of those people who thought 4.0 or 5.1 or 7.1 music would NEVER sound good. But once I heard stereo music played with AuroMatic 3-D processing, I won't listen to music any other way, unless I HAVE to use some other device in my system for a period and it doesn't have Auro. My stereo-purism was blown away (literally) by AuroMatic.
As I have said on this forum, sound mixers can't do what you expect, without making soundtracks that are gimmicky. In real life, very few sounds are heard from above us, with exception of helicopters and maybe sound rain, that's about it.
 
pcosmic

pcosmic

Full Audioholic
Some of those guys in that forum are probably showoffs and consumerist, like people that buy Mercedes and BMW's that they can't really afford.
I knew a guy on audiogon splurging on fairly expensive gear. Dude lost his house a few years ago. In my mind, i was thinking....Ya probably should have paid off your house or kept 24 months of mortgage payments in a savings account before you bought all that gear....(didn't say that to a soul in distress of course). But, hey, not everyone in this world have their priorities right in life.
 
D

Denx4100

Audioholic Intern
I knew a guy on audiogon splurging on fairly expensive gear. Dude lost his house a few years ago. In my mind, i was thinking....Ya probably should have paid off your house or kept 24 months of mortgage payments in a savings account before you bought all that gear....(didn't say that to a soul in distress of course). But, hey, not everyone in this world have their priorities right in life.
 
D

Denx4100

Audioholic Intern
I've got a great bridge in New York for sale, anyone interested? You can put all the speakers on it that you want! Lol
 

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